Common misconceptions about egalitarianism

[Paidiske]

From Marg Mowczko: Common Misconceptions about Christian Egalitarianism

I particularly liked this bit: "at least some of the status, privileges, responsibilities, and opportunities that our culture and churches have assigned to only or mostly men, especially in the past, have been unhealthy and unChristlike."

 

[public hermit]

To me, the egalitarian nature of the gospel is obvious, particularly as highlighted by Paul when he says that in Christ there is no male or female, but in Christ we are one. Unfortunately, it has taken us centuries to even start living into that reality. I have hope, though, that we will continue on the trajectory toward that standard where we are equal in Christ.

ETA: The misconception that women want to do men's jobs, or to be like men, assumes we are not equal in Christ. To the point of the article, these are human functions fulfilled by humans.

 

[PloverWing]

"Men are not the benchmark for humanity". I don't know why I haven't managed to put it in these terms before. Patriarchy really messes with a person's head -- the very categories of patriarchy are all wrong.

 

[WolfGate]

The Status of Christian Women, in a Nutshell - Marg Mowczko

A short post on why Christian women, as well as Christian men, are sons of God. What does it mean to be an adopted son of God?

margmowczko.com

I found the "here" link in that article to be very thought provoking. I had not heard the "you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" exposition before. I need study that a bit deeper.

 

[Gregorikos]

Marg is such a gift to the church, and especially to egalitarian thought. I hadn't heard "men as the benchmark for humanity" expressed before, but as usual, I think she hit the nail on the head.

"and it has affected our language and customs."

This we see when "man" or "sons" are used in a sentence to refer to people of mixed genders. Is there a language that doesn't do this?

 

[Paidiske]

Is there a language that doesn't do this?

Apparently Chinese doesn't tend to gender nouns, or uses a generic word for people. Icelandic defaults to neuter for mixed groups, and some Germanic languages make no distinction between masculine and feminine in plural forms. Or so Google tells me.

 

[deborahjoy429]

I was on a Christian forum much like this one (but focused on equality) with Marg years ago before she had her master’s. She’s always been even keel and has since become the first resource I point folks toward. Simple and clear and fair.

 

[Laureate]

To me, the egalitarian nature of the gospel is obvious, particularly as highlighted by Paul when he says that in Christ there is no male or female, but in Christ we are one. Unfortunately, it has taken us centuries to even start living into that reality. I have hope, though, that we will continue on the trajectory toward that standard where we are equal in Christ.

ETA: The misconception that women want to do men's jobs, or to be like men, assumes we are not equal in Christ. To the point of the article, these are human functions fulfilled by humans.

There are many females that desire or rather covet the disposition of males, (and vis-versa) this is not a misconception, perhaps a different subject altogether from being one in H’meshiakh.

Being One in H’meshiakh does not undo the spiritual nature established from on high, a Female was removed from a Hermaphroditic being, resulting in the Male and Female parts of Adam, for Male and Female created he them in his own image and likeness. and called their name Adam, at which time Adam the Male became the Head of his body.

Herein lies the problem, the scriptures are abundantly clear, the Female does not belong to herself any more than the collective Adam belongs to himself, we all comprise the many members of the body of H’meshiakh,

However just as many males which subscribe to Self Will (in the name of Free Will), so too do many females want in on the (sinful) action of leaning upon one’s own understanding to exercise Self Reliance, Self Will and Self Righteousness.

The head of woman is man, and the head of man is H’meshiakh, and the head of H’meshiakh is Alohym whom we all comprise collectively, for Collectively we are Alohym and individually we are all Children of the supreme being.

 

[Laureate]

There are many females that desire or rather covet the disposition of males, (and vis-versa) this is not a misconception, perhaps a different subject altogether from being one in H’meshiakh.

Being One in H’meshiakh does not undo the spiritual nature established from on high, a Female was removed from a Hermaphroditic being, resulting in the Male and Female parts of Adam, for Male and Female created he them in his own image and likeness. and called their name Adam, at which time Adam the Male became the Head of his body.

Herein lies the problem, the scriptures are abundantly clear, the Female does not belong to herself any more than the collective Adam belongs to himself, we all comprise the many members of the body of H’meshiakh,

However just as many males which subscribe to Self Will (in the name of Free Will), so too do many females want in on the (sinful) action of leaning upon one’s own understanding to exercise Self Reliance, Self Will and Self Righteousness.

The head of woman is man, and the head of man is H’meshiakh, and the head of H’meshiakh is Alohym whom we all comprise collectively, for Collectively we are Alohym and individually we are all Children of the supreme being.

Do we all menstruate? Even those who do, do not menstruate equally, can the eyeball smell? The nose see? Can the ears speak? Or the mouth hear? No! No! No! & No! And do you know why that is? Because they are Not Equal in either structure nor in capacity, nevertheless they are all important and they all contribute to the greater organism for the greater benefit of all,directly or indirectly.

Those who do not know who they are and are oblivious to their own self worth, do good to have a poor self esteem, however sad it may be, for such is the likes of those who set forth to be and do whatsoever their limited imagination can muster.

 

[AlexB23]

From Marg Mowczko: Common Misconceptions about Christian Egalitarianism

I particularly liked this bit: "at least some of the status, privileges, responsibilities, and opportunities that our culture and churches have assigned to only or mostly men, especially in the past, have been unhealthy and unChristlike."

I like equality for all people as well, and I'm a guy. Churches need to ideally have 50% of leaders as women, or as close to 50% as possible, and encourage women to become pastors. It is 2023, not 1953. Plus, the Bible even says that in the New Testament, women have been figures in church authority, such as Junia in Romans 16:7.

 

[Gregorikos]

It is 2023, not 1953.

With all my respect, that line of reasoning doesn't help our cause among people with a high view of Scripture. What difference does the year make in whether something is true and in accord with the will of God?

It is safe to rely on Scripture to make a very strong case for egalitarianism. We should probably avoid modernism as support for what we believe.

 

[AlexB23]

With all my respect, that line of reasoning doesn't help our cause among people with a high view of Scripture. What difference does the year make in whether something is true and in accord with the will of God?

It is safe to rely on Scripture to make a very strong case for egalitarianism. We should probably avoid modernism as support for what we believe.

I agree, and we can rely on scripture, but many people my age are sadly turned away from churches, though I will remain a fervent Christian. So, to adapt with the times, churches could do a few things to help the young generation return to church. For instance, if people nowadays have shorter attention spans, there could be a regular full length service (60-90 min), but also a short service (25 min, basic scripture, one song, communion and short preaching) scheduled afterwards for people who have shorter attention spans, or have certain forms of ADHD (me personally, I have mild ADHD). The Scripture itself, especially the NT points to egalitarianism, as the NT holds more ground as Jesus saved sinners, while the OT was made before Jesus' words.

 

[PloverWing]

For instance, if people nowadays have shorter attention spans, there could be a regular full length service (60-90 min), but also a short service (25 min, basic scripture, one song, communion and short preaching) scheduled afterwards for people who have shorter attention spans, or have certain forms of ADHD (me personally, I have mild ADHD).

I think that describes the 8am and 10am services at our parish!

 

[AlexB23]

I think that describes the 8am and 10am services at our parish!

You guys are lucky. The churches near me have 60-70 minute services. Hard for a young man with ADHD to sit through when there is Star Trek: Discovery at home. I need to go back to church again, haven't gone in person since May or June 2023, after getting distracted by streaming sci-fi or DVDs at home. Heck, washing machines have a short 15-30 minute cycle*, so why can't churches have the equivalent 25 minute service for young people? People will still worship God, but not spend time singing five or more songs, or sit through a 20+ minute homily where the pastor gets side tracked on how some basketball game on the telly the prior weekend relates to his life experiences. Luckily, my pastor hasn't done that, but still, shorten the homily. One or two songs, 5 minute preaching, covering a Bible chapter and most importantly, communion are really all that a church needs for young people in my humble opinion.

*Note, for me, a cold water normal cycle (1 hour on my LG branded machine) for my washer is preferred over the 15-30 minute cycle, as the longer cycle rinses soap off my clothing better and uses less water.