Common ground Creationists and Atheists "can" agree with - without too much effort

[Subduction Zone]

The person that knows nothing about aerodynamics and "Gets on the plane anyway" is on the right path to truth.

But that is not faith. At least not in the religious sense. Please, no equivocation fallacies.

 

[childeye 2]

ok understood.

But notice this in Heb 11

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

Evolutionists often are found to "hope" that evolution is true in that it will be able to plug in all the holes in its proposal.

Hope by necessity must be pointed at a perceived positive. It's inescapable that when I contemplate God as a positive, I am also discerning atheism. Wherefore the hope that there is no God from my perspective is not faith, it is unfaith. I therefore would also assume that an atheist would describe the term hope as a form of optimism.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Respectfully, this is not a reasonable assertion.

Why not? The alternative is that the Bible is wrong. I was being generous.

I agree that many/most Christians misinterpret the term faith when not drawing any distinction from superstition and/or unfaith. The term faith when understood properly is perfect in that it denotes the Power that brought forth all things as trustworthy.

Now that is a nice mouthful of word salad.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In my view, you ask the question, and then you answer it. When I learn something true, I have faith in that there is a Truth to learn. The same cannot be said about superstition. When you mean superstition you should use the term superstition and not faith.

Then you are confused. My answer did not say that faith is superstition. It is simply not a pathway to the truth. That is an observation. And I don't think that you have learned that anything is true. You are only under the effects of confirmation bias. Actual knowledge is demonstrable and people of faith seem to fail at that.

It serves only to obfuscate when we conflate God with religion and faith with superstition.

The belief in God is a religious belief. That is not an obfuscation and no one has conflated faith with superstition. That is still your strawman.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hope by necessity must be pointed at a perceived positive. It's inescapable that when I contemplate God as a positive, I am also discerning atheism. Wherefore the hope that there is no God from my perspective is not faith, it is unfaith. I therefore would also assume that an atheist would describe the term hope as a form of optimism.

Atheism is not the hope that there is no God.

 

[childeye 2]

Why not? The alternative is that the Bible is wrong. I was being generous.

Respectfully, you've left out the alternative that scripture is not mistranslated and correct.

Now that is a nice mouthful of word salad.

I'm open to any improvement as pertains to articulation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Respectfully, you've left out the alternative that scripture is not mistranslated and correct.

The problem is that various stories of the Bible have been shown to be not true if one interprets the Bible literally. I was being generous when I said that todays interpretation of "faith" may not be correct.

I'm open to any improvement as pertains to articulation.

Since it is your claim it is up to you to try to define what you mean clearly by "faith". If I tried to do it for you I would probably not reflect your interpretation. It would be a pointless exercise for me.

 

[BobRyan]

Atheism is not the hope that there is no God.

why not??

Is it your POV that atheists have the exhaustive contents of the universe in a drawer some place and know for certain there is no God?

If so - check out these Atheists telling us what Atheists "still don't know" -

Notice where they end up episode 4 ... hmmm it is not "we have the drawer and God is not in it".

 

[Speedwell]

why not??

Is it our POV that atheists have the exhaustive contents of the universe in a drawer some place and know for certain there is no God?

If so - check out these Atheists telling us what Atheists "still don't know" -

Notice where they end up ... is not "we have the drawer and God is not in it".

Why should an atheist hope for such a thing? Is believing in God such a burden for you that you imagine atheists are hoping to avoid it?

 

[BobRyan]

The problem is that various stories of the Bible have been shown to be not true if one interprets the Bible literally. .

also not true

 

[BobRyan]

Subduction Zone said: ↑
Atheism is not the hope that there is no God.

why not? They certainly don't have it known for fact. (if you talk to the ones that invented the multiverse and string theory)

Why should an atheist hope for such a thing?

Take a look at what they are admitting they still don't know --
10 minutes ago #68

 

[Speedwell]

why not? They certainly don't have it known for fact. (if you talk to the ones that invented the multiverse and string theory)



Take a look at what they are admitting they still don't know --
10 minutes ago #68

I don't see the connection. Science is an unfinished business, but it has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

why not??

Is it your POV that atheists have the exhaustive contents of the universe in a drawer some place and know for certain there is no God?

If so - check out these Atheists telling us what Atheists "still don't know" -

Notice where they end up episode 4 ... hmmm it is not "we have the drawer and God is not in it".

You should really try to learn what you are debating against. I can assure you that atheism is not the hope that there is no God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

also not true

Just because you do not understand how they have been refuted does not mean that has not happened. Unfortunately creationists do not seem to be interested in learning. They are only looking for excuses to believe.

 

[childeye 2]

Then you are confused. My answer did not say that faith is superstition. It is simply not a pathway to the truth. That is an observation. And I don't think that you have learned that anything is true. You are only under the effects of confirmation bias. Actual knowledge is demonstrable and people of faith seem to fail at that.

If faith is pointed at something that is a myth, then it's superstition. When it's pointed away from Thee God then it's unfaith according to the Gospel. Please consider that The Gospel presents that either empathy/Love is the attribute of the Creator manifesting in the creature or it is an attribute of the creature apart from any self aware Creator. Either way empathy is a virtue of the highest value and is a positive. However only in the worship of self does it turn vain and corruptible. Moreover the Christ displayed a self sacrificing Love with extreme endurance and perseverance suffering a cross and death, all for the sake of forgiveness. It is therefore pure and trends towards wanting to believe in purity not corruption.

The belief in God is a religious belief. That is not an obfuscation and no one has conflated faith with superstition. That is still your strawman.

Unless the term god is adequately defined it is unclear as to whether such a belief/religion is in something mythological or not.

 

[childeye 2]

Atheism is not the hope that there is no God.

I think we have different definitions of atheism if we have differing definitions of God/god/gods.

 

[Larniavc]

It's self evident that worship of self is where empathy/Love becomes vain and corruptible in the creature.

I can agree with that. But that does not support the claims the Bible makes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think we have different definitions of atheism if we have differing definitions of God/god/gods.

Possibly. Tell me, would you go to a Muslim for a definition of Christianity? It appears that your definition is incorrect. As to God/god/gods there are endless definitions and there is no right one.

 

[Larniavc]

In scripture faith is pointed at God and God is empathy/Love.

Anyone religious has faith in their deity or unseen concept. Faith in the divine is not only for Christians.

 

[Larniavc]

why not??

This seems to be a manifestation of the Christian belief that atheist sit about desperately that God does not exist so that they won’t have to face judgement.

This is not the case. I happen to be unconvinced of the claims made in the Bible. As I don’t believe God exists I have no reason the hope he does not exist.

Do you hope Enki does not exist? Of course not. And the amount of time you spending hoping Enki does not exist is about the same as an atheist spends hoping God does not exist.

Not believing in God does not leave a God shaped hole in a person and more than there is an Enki shaped hole in you.

Does that make sense- can you see where I’m coming from?