Common Grace

[Iosias]

Define it?

Do you believe it?

Why? What is the Scriptural support?

 

[cygnusx1]

an excellent place to start ;

http://www.mbrem.com/calvinism/commongrace.htm

 

[McWilliams]

Common grace, simply put:

The grace God sheds on all humanity; including flowers, rain, wellness, safety, offspring, jobs, friendships....

Of course I believe all of God's word and truth!

It rains on the just and the unjust.
There are many but I would have to take time to quote each one. Give me a little time.
He Himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything... in Him we live and move and have our being! " (Acts 17:25, 28)
Mt 5:45 ...for He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[cygnusx1]

Common grace, simply put:

The grace God sheds on all humanity; including flowers, rain, wellness, safety, offspring, jobs, friendships....

Of course I believe all of God's word and truth!

It rains on the just and the unjust.
There are many but I would have to take time to quote each one. Give me a little time.
He Himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything... in Him we live and move and have our being! " (Acts 17:25, 28)
Mt 5:45 ...for He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

I agree with you sister , yet you will find some Calvinist's deny it , they will say the only grace that exists is saving Grace , some will even say that God hates everyone except the Elect ....

they think even these kind graces (gifts) you have metioned as being not for a blessing to sinners , but to increase their damnation , as if God is mean , by deliberately tricking men into accepting good UNDESERVED (ie, grace) things only in order to inflict more wrath on men. ........ yes it is hard to imagine some can think this way , but it is true.

I am reminded once again of Spurgeon ;

"Now, the next question is a different one: Why did God hate Esau? I am not going to mix this question up with the other, they are entirely distinct, and I intend to keep them so, one answer will not do for two questions, they must be taken separately, and then can be answered satisfactorily. Why does God hate any man? I defy anyone to give any answer but this, because that man deserves it; no reply but that can ever be true. There are some who answer, divine sovereignty; but I challenge them to look that doctrine in the face. Do you believe that God created man and arbitrarily, sovereignly—it is the same thing—created that man, with no other intention, than that of damning him? Made him, and yet, for no other reason than that of destroying him for ever? Well, if you can believe it, I pity you, that is all I can say: you deserve pity, that you should think so meanly of God, whose mercy endureth for ever. You are quite right when you say the reason why God loves a man, is because God does do so; there is no reason in the man. But do not give the same answer as to why God hates a man. If God deals with any man severely, it is because that man deserves all he gets. In hell there will not be a solitary soul that will say to God, O Lord, thou hast treated me worse than I deserve! But every lost spirit will be made to feel that he has got his deserts, that his destruction lies at his own door and not at the door of God; that God had nothing to do with his condemnation, except as the Judge condemns the criminal, but that he himself brought damnation upon his own head, as the result of his own evil works. Justice is that which damns a man; it is mercy, it is free grace, that saves; sovereignty holds the scale of love; it is justice holds the other scale. Who can put that into the hand of sovereignty? That were to libel God and to dishonour him ... "


http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0239.HTM

 

[McWilliams]

As we are all so unworthy, it is only by His great grace that the next breath is drawn! He can withold that grace at any second!

We, the saved are saved by His electing grace, an inward work on the heart, which is a whole different thing altogether!

 

[arunma]

Common grace, simply put:

The grace God sheds on all humanity; including flowers, rain, wellness, safety, offspring, jobs, friendships....

Of course I believe all of God's word and truth!

It rains on the just and the unjust.
There are many but I would have to take time to quote each one. Give me a little time.
He Himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything... in Him we live and move and have our being! " (Acts 17:25, 28)
Mt 5:45 ...for He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Thank you McWilliams. Those are exactly the Scriptures that I was thinking of.

I agree with you sister , yet you will find some Calvinist's deny it , they will say the only grace that exists is saving Grace , some will even say that God hates everyone except the Elect ....

Perhaps the issue is that in both the Bible and common speech, "hate" has a multitude of meanings. Certainly God hates the unelect in the sense that he loves the elect more. But judging by how Jesus and the Apostles interacted with unbelievers, it seems to me that God does not hate the unelect in the sense of wishing bad upon them.

This much is true. Whether God loves or hates the unelect, he commands the elect to love our enemies. So whatever God's feelings towards unbelievers, he has already given us specific instructions on how we should treat these people.

 

[cygnusx1]

Thank you McWilliams. Those are exactly the Scriptures that I was thinking of.



Perhaps the issue is that in both the Bible and common speech, "hate" has a multitude of meanings. Certainly God hates the unelect in the sense that he loves the elect more. But judging by how Jesus and the Apostles interacted with unbelievers, it seems to me that God does not hate the unelect in the sense of wishing bad upon them.

This much is true. Whether God loves or hates the unelect, he commands the elect to love our enemies. So whatever God's feelings towards unbelievers, he has already given us specific instructions on how we should treat these people.

true bro!

what is even better is that we have a model , God Himself , and how much peace does it give us knowing God requires of us that which He is more than willing to do.
God is not like some who say "just do it because I said so , or else" , rather , He inspires us by saying see , now do what I do ... this is how Jesus described His work.

JN 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very ... Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, ...

 

[Iosias]

The grace God sheds on all humanity; including flowers, rain, wellness, safety, offspring, jobs, friendships...

How are you here using the term grace? It is undeniable that God gives good things to all men yet we must remember as Francis Turretin stated: "The sun melts the wax but hardens the clay".

For those of you interested:
1. A Debate On Common Grace between Dr. Mouw & Prof. Engelsma.
2. He Shines in all that's Fairby Prof. Engelsma.

 

[Iosias]

Definition of POINT ONE: The doctrine of Common Grace teaches that God is gracious to all men in bestowing upon them the things of this present time, such as rain and sunshine, and all earthly things.

Objections:
1. The Reformed "Confessions do not express themselves on this point, although they do attribute the term "common grace" to the Arminians in Canons III-IV:5."
2. "It is contrary to Scripture, which plainly teaches that God hates the wicked reprobates and that He uses even the things of the present time to their destruction. See: Psa. 5:5; Psa. 11:5; Psa. 73:17-20; Psalm 92:5-7; Prov. 3:33; Mal. 1:2-4; Rom. 9:13; I Pet. 3:12."
3. "The truth is that grace is not in things. All things are but means which God uses to the salvation of the righteous (elect) while He uses them to the destruction and damnation of the wicked (reprobate). And, because men also use these means as rational, moral creatures, they are responsible. Things are certainly common but grace is never common."

See: http://www.prca.org/articles/article_5.html

 

[Iosias]

Definition of POINT TWO: the second point teaches: That there is a gracious operation of the Holy Spirit which is not regenerating on the heart and mind and will of the sinner; That this operation commenced immediately after the fall and continues all through history; That as a result there is in man a remnant of his original goodness, so that he is not as depraved as he would be without this operation; That, because of this operation, the natural man is able to live a relatively good life in this life, and do good in the sphere of the world.

Objection:
1. "The Second Point itself is contrary to Scripture and the Confessions."
2. "To Scripture: (1) It postulates a remnant of good in natural man, which is contrary to all those passages of Holy Writ that speak of the depravity of the natural man. For these, see the discussion under Point III. (2)Scripture teaches directly the opposite from the main tenant of the Second Point when it declares that God delivers men over into ever greater corruption by His wrath. See: Rom. 1:24-28; Psalm 51:5."
3. "To the Confessions: Canons III-IV:4 speaks of "remnants of natural light." These remnants are not due to an operation of Common Grace. Even with these remnants, however, the natural man is still wholly depraved and incapable of doing any good even in things natural and civil."

See: http://www.prca.org/articles/article_5.html

 

[cygnusx1]

How are you here using the term grace?

unmerited favour.

It is undeniable that God gives good things to all men yet we must remember as Francis Turretin stated: "The sun melts the wax but hardens the clay".

true , secondary purposes should not be denied any more than primary ones.


Romans 2

Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance? 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works:


For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. John 3:17


John 5


30 "I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 31 "If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony cannot be verified. 32 But there is another 12 who testifies on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he gives on my behalf is true. 33 You sent emissaries to John, and he testified to the truth. 34 I do not accept testimony from a human being, but I say this so that you may be saved.
35 He was a burning and shining lamp, 13 and for a while you were content to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have testimony greater than John's. The works that the Father gave me to accomplish, these works that I perform testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me. 37 Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. 39 You search 14 the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. 40 But you do not want to come to me to have life.


John 20

30 19 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of (his) disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written that you may (come to) believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name.

 

[Elderone]

Here is an article that all should find thought provoking.

http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_55.html

 

[Iosias]

true , secondary purposes should not be denied any more than primary ones.
Romans 2

Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance? 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works:

Let us be Biblical and not wrest verses out of context.

Here are the Canons 3/4, 4:

The Inadequacy of the Light of Nature
There is, to be sure, a certain light of nature remaining in man after the fall, by virtue of which he retains some notions about God, natural things, and the difference between what is moral and immoral, and demonstrates a certain eagerness for virtue and for good outward behavior. But this light of nature is far from enabling man to come to a saving knowledge of God and conversion to him--so far, in fact, that man does not use it rightly even in matters of nature and society. Instead, in various ways he completely distorts this light, whatever its precise character, and suppresses it in unrighteousness. In doing so he renders himself without excuse before God.

 

[cygnusx1]

Let us be Biblical and not wrest verses out of context.

instead of just posting negativity , it would be better if you showed why quoting a scripture means the same thing as taking it out of context.


I have seen this done so many times ...... someone quotes a scripture , and someone else says "you are not interpreting it correctly " .... even when no interpretation is given!