Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Usage?

[seeking.IAM]

What modern standards do you think I'm trying to apply?

I don't know, but I am curious about why this topic matters to you? It doesn't change the fact that Christ was crucified, died, arose, ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father. It your argument is true, what is its impact on how we think about the resurrection or what does it change about Christianity? Can you help me understand that?

 

[rstrats]

seeking.IAM,
re: "...I am curious about why this topic matters to you?"

As I said in the OP, I'm simply curious if anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body, and who tries to explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period, could provide examples to support the assertion of commonality?


re: "If your argument is true..."

What argument do you think I am making?

 

[seeking.IAM]

I don't know, but I am curious about why this topic matters to you?...If your argument is true, what is its impact on how we think about the resurrection or what does it change about Christianity?...

What argument do you think I am making?

I thought you were making the argument that the days between crucifixion and resurrection don't add up. My position about whether they do or don't is what does it matter? It seems to me to me this is one of the silly, non-essential things that Christian's argue over like should we really celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25 when we don't really know when Christ was born. Forgive me if I ascribed to you an assertion you did not intend. Perhaps I did not understand your purpose.

 

[rstrats]

seeking.IAM,
re: "I thought you were making the argument that the days between crucifixion and resurrection don't add up."

For the purpose of this topic, I'm not. This topic is concerned with one issue and only one issue. If someone thinks that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur, I am simply asking to see the examples that they are using to say that it was common.

 

[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

 

[rstrats]

And that someone needs to be someone who thinks that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur and who has examples to support that assertion

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Another indication that Paraskevi, the Greek name for Friday aka Day of Preparation, was the day of the crucifixion comes from the Didache. This was a very early church document, probably written in the late 1st century, that was mentioned by multiple church fathers but lost until 1873.

Αἱ δὲ νηστεῖαι ὑμῶν μὴ ἔστωσαν μετὰ τῶν ὑποκριτῶν. νηστεύουσι γὰρ δευτέρα σαββάτων καὶ πέμτῃ· ὑμεῖς δὲ νηστεύσατε τετράδα καὶ παρασκευήν.

CONCERNING FASTING Do not let your fasts fall on the same days as the hypocrites, for they fast on second day and fifth day. Keep your fast on fourth day (Wednesday) and Paraskevi (Friday).

Traditionally, Wednesday was recognized as the day that Judas set up the betrayal, and Paraskevi, Preparation in Greek, the crucifixion.

 

[The Liturgist]

You're in the Traditional subforum. All of us here accept the authority of the early Church, which says Christ was crucified on Friday and was raised on Sunday (which, as was mentioned, is the eighth day). You are not going to get a different answer here, because it's the orthodox one, and it always has been from the very beginning. You might begin your search with researching what the early Church believed instead of trying to apply modern standards to things of God that are anything but modern.

Amen to that.

 

[rstrats]

Since it's been awhile, someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

prodromos,
re: "By Jewish reckoning, the day of the crucifixion. Jews counted inclusively."

What examples do you have which show that the day since something took place is the day that the something took place?

Exactly! In Jewish tradition, days begin at sun-down, not sun-rise. (which is where the tradition of Vigil Services being the first service of a Festival). Christ was removed from the cross before the Sabbath (before sundown) and placed in the tomb on Friday; day one. His body rested in the Tomb over the Saturday, the Sabbath; day two. He was raised after Sundown (Sunday); the third day. We celebrate the first Service of Easter (the Vigil) after Sun-down on Holy Saturday, and a slightly less elaborate service Easter Sunday morning as well.

 

[rstrats]

Christ was removed from the cross before the Sabbath (before sundown) and placed in the tomb on Friday; day one. His body rested in the Tomb over the Saturday, the Sabbath; day two. He was raised after Sundown (Sunday); the third day.

How do you account for the lack of a third night?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

How do you account for the lack of a third night?

The Holy Week narrative describes what happened each day:

Sunday - Jesus arrives from Bethany to Jerusalem on a donkey
Monday - Jesus leaves Bethany, curses the fig tree and cleans the temple of moneychangers.
Tuesday - Back to Jerusalem passing by the withered fig tree is. Mount of Olives discourse.
Wednesday - Jesus teaches at Mount of Olives. Traditionally this is the day that Judas sets up the betrayal of Jesus
Thursday - Jesus travels to Jerusalem where the Last Supper is prepared.

The Wednesday crucifixion simply cannot happen as we are told that Jesus traveled to Jerusalem both on Monday and Tuesday. There is no time for Judas to betray Jesus, and this means that the Last Supper would have to occur on Tuesday, but Scripture says that Jesus returned to Bethany that evening.

 

[prodromos]

How do you account for the lack of a third night?

Synecdoche.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

How do you account for the lack of a third night?

Scripture, I believe, says nothing about the nights, but it does say three days. As others have stated, this is Traditional Theology, and discussion is allowed, but arguining against the beliefs of those of us who hold to these traditional teachings
is not. Please read this: Statement of Purpose - Traditional Theology Statement of Purpose.

If you can post in accord with these rules, you are welcome here; if you are here only to troll and antagonize, please leave; and if you don't, staff will assist your exodous.

 

[The Liturgist]

Synecdoche.

Aside from being the explanation to the three days and three nights aspect,
also the name of a really weird but interesting postmodernist film starring the late Philip Seymour Hoffman, directed by Charlie Kauffman, well known as the writer of Being John Malkovich. Well, the actual title is Synecdoche, NY, a pun on Schenectady, NY.

 

[rstrats]

Synecdoche.

So are you saying that it was common to use synecdoche to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?

 

[rstrats]

MarkRohfrietsch,
re: "Scripture, I believe, says nothing about the nights..."

Are you saying that Matthew 12:40 isn't scripture?



re: " As others have stated, this is Traditional Theology, and discussion is allowed, but arguining against the beliefs of those of us who hold to these traditional teachings is not"

Again, for the purpose of this topic I'm not arguing against anyone's beliefs. I'm simply asking for examples of use from anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a third night by saying that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

 

[prodromos]

So are you saying that it was common to use synecdoche to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?

No, I'm saying that synecdoche is a very common figure of speech. When you recognise "three days and three nights" as synecdoche then there are no contradictions.
"On the third day", "after three days" and "three days and three nights" all mean the same thing.

 

[rstrats]

No, I'm saying that synecdoche is a very common figure of speech.

And if it is common usage, there should be examples which show the commonness of saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be involved in order to legitimately make the assertion of commonality.

 

[prodromos]

And if it is common usage, there should be examples which show the commonness of saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be involved in order to legitimately make the assertion of commonality.

There are many examples of synecdoche in the Scriptures.