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Tee_w

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[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]I've just got a copy of Pagan Christianity and I'm finding it a fascinating read.[/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif] I've read about a third of the book and I'm in total agreement with the authors view that much of what goes on in church meetings actually stifles body ministry, and prevents individuals from growing into effective members of the body of Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]The thing is, where do we go from here? Me and my wife would like to start a home group. We live in a large village were the only visible expression of Christianity is in the local Anglo-catholic church, which is not good. [/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Any help or comments would be welcome.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Blessings,[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Tee.[/FONT]
 
R

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... much of what goes on in church meetings actually stifles body ministry, and prevents individuals from growing into effective members of the body of Christ. The thing is, where do we go from here? ... Any help or comments would be welcome.

Taking the broad common understanding of "church" I agree.

On the one hand you have set liturgy where men decades ago decided much of what the people would hear about God leaving only the sermon which is often taken from a book and given by a man who may well have studied theology rather than received the Spirit of God.
On the other, you have a busy, noisy atmosphere with entertainments, emotionalism and indistinct messages.

What God wants for meetings is detailed in 1 Corinthians 14, yet very few operate the gifts and ministries in an orderly way.

I see from your profile that you are into revival Christianity. We are into reviving the original way and we have an outreach and meetings 5pm this Sat. (3rd) & 10am Sun. here.
(don't worry, we are not Masons, it's just the best location in the area).

It certainly made me more fruitful to meet and be involved with people with the same vision & desire that I had.
 
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1watchman

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There are a few House churches in England that I know of who hold to Scripture-only for all function and service. If interested, you can write me at my PM and we can look further at this. It is important to see that so-called House Churches have existed from the beginning of God's testimony, and some have grown larger and needed to acquire their own building or rent a place. You can read some about this at the site: biblecounsel.net if interested.
 
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NTP

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Hi Tee

I also live in a UK village (in Kent) - and have been a firm believer in home-based meetings since I was converted (in 1986). I have at times enjoyed the opportunity of such, albeit with very small numbers. At other times my wife and I have found somewhere to 'go along to' - not home-based but small, interactive style meetings. At other times we simply cannot find anywhere with even a remotely biblical outlook on 'church' and we have been 'without church' in the normal expected sense - albeit never without some kind of connection with other believers somewhere. I'd be interested to know which part of the UK you are in?
 
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R

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...we simply cannot find anywhere with even a remotely biblical outlook on 'church'...
Tee's profile says Durham.
I was spirit-filled in '86, I was in Kent on Saturday visiting our fellowship there, we believe in and encourage "every member ministry", maybe you could get in touch?
I'm sure some locals would be happy to meet up for a chat. We currently use a hall because we give out leaflets with that address on, but we also use people's houses when an opening arises in a new area.
 
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NTP

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Hi Receiver

Thanks for the response and link to the 'Revival Fellowship' movement. I can’t determine from the website what a typical meeting might be like. Is there an individual website for the Medway/Kent based group? If not, perhaps you could paint a picture of a typical meeting...
 
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NTP

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Hi Receiver

Thanks for the response and link to the 'Revival Fellowship' movement. I can’t determine from the website what a typical meeting might be like. Is there an individual website for the Medway/Kent based group? If not, perhaps you could paint a picture of a typical meeting...
 
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R

Receiver

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Hi Receiver

Thanks for the response and link to the 'Revival Fellowship' movement. I can’t determine from the website what a typical meeting might be like. Is there an individual website for the Medway/Kent based group? If not, perhaps you could paint a picture of a typical meeting...

Hi NTP,

here's their Fb page.

Typical meeting (Weds eve. & Sunday 11am):
choruses
personal testimony (someone tells how they found God & his salvation)
communion (Sundays only)
2 or 3 gifts of tongues with interpretation
2 or 3 prophecies
talk (words of wisdom & knowledge, bible-based)
prayer for needs
end, chat, etc.

I hope you visit!
Plenty of parking space round Gillingham Park.
 
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NTP

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Hi Receiver

Thanks for the informative description. May I ask for some more details...

I realise the following questions are all very ‘outward’ and answers to these in no way in and of themselves reflect the depth of spiritual life but I trust you will appreciate their relevance in relation to the forum and this thread of seeking ‘home-based church’. I understand that these meetings are based in a public building but I am just trying to ascertain whether they are still more inclined toward a ‘house meeting format'. So here goes:

1. In the meeting hall would the chairs be arranged so people are generally facing one another, or are they in rows ‘front facing’?

2. Are there some musical instruments used? Is it just one or two or is there a ‘band’/’group’?

3. Assuming the presence of some kind of musician(s) do they mostly ‘join in’ with hymns/choruses that are started/chosen by various people or do they mostly ‘lead’ a ‘time of worship’?

4. Is there a prepared message/sermon that is invariably delivered at some point or do the meetings sometimes take various unexpected twists and turns and the planned ‘message’ is dropped due to other directions?

5. Assuming that there is generally prepared talks/sermons are the vast majority of these undertaken by one person or is there generally a fair spread of brothers teaching/exhorting in the meetings?

I’m sure that is enough of my probing but please appreciate again that so far as I’m concerned answers to these questions do not in my opinion (in and of themselves) present a picture of the level of spirituality - but, for me, they will help in assessing whether or not the meetings are what I would understand to be essentially ‘house-style’.

Thanks for your patience ;)
 
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R

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... I understand that these meetings are based in a public building

Actually, the hall is privately owned by us and not used by anyone else.
We sometimes have a BBQ or members-only get-together at someone's house.

but I am just trying to ascertain whether they are still more inclined toward a ‘house meeting format'. So here goes:

1. In the meeting hall would the chairs be arranged so people are generally facing one another, or are they in rows ‘front facing’?
Front-facing as we are looking at either the speaker or a projection of the song words or a presentation. The same would happen at someone's house if when we meet there. The focus is not on other people, some people, especially new people would not like that so it makes little sense to run our meetings with everyone facing each other.


2. Are there some musical instruments used? Is it just one or two or is there a ‘band’/’group’?
Depends who is available but at full strength we have 2 guitars, piano and drum kit (drums play a minor role), we don't want to drown out the singing.


3. Assuming the presence of some kind of musician(s) do they mostly ‘join in’ with hymns/choruses that are started/chosen by various people or do they mostly ‘lead’ a ‘time of worship’?
Either we all start at the same tome or they lead in a few notes, depending on which chorus / how well known.


4. Is there a prepared message/sermon that is invariably delivered at some point or do the meetings sometimes take various unexpected twists and turns and the planned ‘message’ is dropped due to other directions?
The speaker is usually given a least a week's notice as sometimes subjects need to be researched etc. There is spontaneity in that he will be open to God to give inspiration during the talk and if new people come in he can end with some personal salvation scriptures.

5. Assuming that there is generally prepared talks/sermons are the vast majority of these undertaken by one person or is there generally a fair spread of brothers teaching/exhorting in the meetings?
Oh yes, we want to give all brothers the opportunity to give talks. The pastor or a visiting pastor tends to give the main Sunday talk.

I’m sure that is enough of my probing but please appreciate again that so far as I’m concerned answers to these questions do not in my opinion (in and of themselves) present a picture of the level of spirituality - but, for me, they will help in assessing whether or not the meetings are what I would understand to be essentially ‘house-style’.
OK, well I expect house style varies!
I think the important thing is to run meetings as God says - most "bible-based" church groups don't actually follow the directives he gives in 1 Corinthians 14, and most members don't even know what these are!
Specifics are given to use the various gifts in an orderly way ... this promotes spiritual growth, (the OP's main concern, and God's!).

As well as helping Christians to grow it provides evidence of the living God to visitors (let's not forget that "the great commission" is given to the church)

"tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" ...
"here come in one that believes not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God,
and report that God is in you of a truth."



Paul ends by saying:
"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write
to you are the commandments of the Lord" (v37)


There is nothing said about location, seating layout, musical instruments so these are obviously less essential so we just do what works best.
We sometimes meet people who have an issue about some non-essential point which they refuse to let go of, so they end up on their own, sacrificing the clear things God says because they cut themselves off from the other gifts and ministries because they are in a group of 2 or 3! I'm not suggestion you will of course, just sharing what I've seen.

Thanks for your patience ;)
No problem!
The best way to appreciate is to visit.
Many people won't because they think they have seen it all before, but truth is, they havn't.

"when the queen of Sheba had seen all Solomon's wisdom, and the house that he had built,
And the meat of his table, ... she said to the king,
It was a true report that I heard in mine own land of thy acts and of thy wisdom.
Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it:
and, behold, the half was not told me" (1 Kings 10)


Jesus says:
"The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."

I'm not boasting in ourselves, I am boasting at the glory, the blessing, wisdom, vision, joy etc that follows when people just do "church" God's way!
 
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NTP

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Hi Receiver

And thanks once again for all your answers and the various Scriptures too.

I don’t want to hijack a thread on my first outing at the forum! So, just coming back to the original question of, “starting a home group” and the book that has been referenced...

( I’ve not read the cited book but I have a fair idea of the topics and have glanced through an online summary ).

I assume that Tee_W is thinking more in the direction of a type of meeting and structure which is somewhat different from that which you have described. But I may be wrong! I’d be interested to hear further from Tee_W about what he envisages and would like to see in terms of “a home group.”

Thanks again for answering all my queries and making me aware of your group in Gillingham.
(and for the invite to come along sometime).
 
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R

Receiver

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...I don’t want to hijack a thread on my first outing at the forum! ...

Thanks again for answering all my queries and making me aware of your group in Gillingham.
(and for the invite to come along sometime).

We're hardly crowding Tee out!
He/she has not spoken since the start and even then comments were invited, maybe s/he has been down at our Leeds event this weekend?

Personally, if I found myself 'without church', or as Paul put it, separated from the body, in a situation where I (and those very few people with me) cannot fulfil my role in the church, and offer the outsiders what Jesus intended, I would make it a priority to follow a door opened by God into what his will clearly is.
 
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Tee_w

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]Hi Tee

I also live in a UK village (in Kent) - and have been a firm believer in home-based meetings since I was converted (in 1986). I have at times enjoyed the opportunity of such, albeit with very small numbers. At other times my wife and I have found somewhere to 'go along to' - not home-based but small, interactive style meetings. At other times we simply cannot find anywhere with even a remotely biblical outlook on 'church' and we have been 'without church' in the normal expected sense - albeit never without some kind of connection with other believers somewhere. I'd be interested to know which part of the UK you are in?[/quote]


[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Here's a little bit about myself; in the late seventies early eighties I had the privilege of attending a charismatic fellowship That had covering ministry from South Chard Christian Church.

South Chard in Somerset was a centre for revival and possibly the birth place of the British Charismatic movement. The Pastor, Pastor Sid Purse had a revelation of body ministry and as a consequence he took a saw and cut down the pulpit, then the fire fell, it was the beginning of a revival were Christ became the head of his body and every joint supplied according to his direction. The pastor's vision was for every member of the body to come into the fullness of everything that Christ had for them.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Much of the positive stuff I've read in the book, 'Pagan Christianity' reminds me of my days in the charismatic fellowship I used to belong to.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]It was a church the started in a house with several people to begin with, by the time I came along it had grown to about 200 adults. However, it still functioned well as a body of believers who where genuinely Holy Spirit led. I remember the presence of God could be felt even before you entered the building the church hired for the Sunday evening meeting. [/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]The term, 'the beauty of holiness,' goes part way to describing what it was like to enter this amazing presence, I had a real sense of divine purity and holy awe. As for the actual meetings it seemed that no-one, at least no-one human was leading them – quite a contrast from the baptist church – I was used too. The body of believers functioned so well together as they were lead or promoted by the Holy Spirit, the meeting could never be [/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]said to be[/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif] boring or predictable. [/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]
The church had something of a reputation for being a place where God spoke very clearly, which was a tremendous resource for anyone wanting God's direction, comfort, prayer ministry, healing, deliverance or whatever.
[/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif] The church also had a place of leadership in the district in the sense that other churches would look to them as an example of godliness and good practise.

Sadly, that church is now a pale reflection of what it once was
[/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]and God has moved me on to another part of the country, namely; Co Durham. [/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]I miss the great times we had in God and wish the charismatic movement such as it is, would rediscover true body ministry and I guess that is what I'm looking for in a Church.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Blessings,[/FONT]
[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Tee.[/FONT]
 
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NTP

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Dear Tee

That is all so encouraging to hear. I am familiar with South Chard and the name of Sid Purse. I visited Chard in the early nineties with friends that were going there at the time (they were there some time after 1990). That was after the passing of Sid Purse so I never actually saw him. I realise that even then the ‘former glory’ was not quite there but there was I’m sure some continued outworking of many good things. My friends stopped going there long ago now and attest to your own understanding of the current spiritual ‘temperature’.

Sid Purse also had some connection with a place called Rora House (a Christian conference centre) in Devon in their early days (60s / 70s). I am very familiar with Rora.

I was saved in 1986 and I think I quickly grew to realise that my conversion was very much during the dying embers of the charismatic revival. My ‘complaint’ to God (I do mean respectfully) has long been that every generation in this land has known ‘real’ revival for the past few hundred years (in one form/place or another)... surely Lord it is our turn now!

I like that you say...

I miss the great times we had in God and wish the charismatic movement such as it is, would rediscover true body ministry and I guess that is what I'm looking for in a Church.

I can see that you are looking for and hoping for more than just a ‘better wineskin’ (NT model of church) but it must also contain the ‘real’ New Wine.

Well, I hope I’ve understood you correctly, I’m confident I have! I recognise it because I am the same. I have studied/written extensively about ‘Biblical Church’ (being “home-based” – largely speaking - being just one small part of it) but I could never emphasise enough that getting ‘church goers’ out of ‘churches’ and into homes is not at all my aim. Following the New Testament pattern of church only has any value if the people involved are overflowing with God’s Spirit!

So, the questions is, where do you go from here? I don’t have the specific answers for others but for my wife and I... believing these things has not always led to an easy route. But in difficult times we have found that God sends ravens to feed us!
 
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R

Receiver

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...
[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Here's a little bit about myself; in the late seventies early eighties I had the privilege of attending a charismatic fellowship That had covering ministry from South Chard Christian Church.

South Chard in Somerset was a centre for revival and possibly the birth place of the British Charismatic movement. The Pastor, Pastor Sid Purse had a revelation of body ministry ...
[/FONT]

I was in Bristol in the mid 80s where there was a fair bit of charismatic revival which I got involved in. God moved me back to the original church set-up and over to the London area in '89.

There is an excellent documentary DVD out about what started in Sunderland in 1907, available here, or here.

(the others in the series are not really worth getting IMO).
 
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1watchman

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Hello friend. I saw your note on CF about small House church meetings:

Hi Tee

I also live in a UK village (in Kent) - and have been a firm believer in home-based meetings since I was converted (in 1986). I have at times enjoyed the opportunity of such, albeit with very small numbers. At other times my wife and I have found somewhere to 'go along to' - not home-based but small, interactive style meetings. At other times we simply cannot find anywhere with even a remotely biblical outlook on 'church' and we have been 'without church' in the normal expected sense - albeit never without some kind of connection with other believers somewhere. I'd be interested to know which part of the UK you are in?

You might visit the very sound site at www.biblecounsel.net to see about this subject, and what Scripture teaches about God's intent for His testimony in the world. There are a few of these gatherings in places in England, as in many countries. You can PM me as to where you are, and I might know of a gathering near to you. Look up always!

- Sincerely in Christ forever, 1watchman Bob
 
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AGTG

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Friendship evangelism and prayer and intercession for everyone the Lord brings across your path. That, I believe, is the key to building a home church from scratch. My wife and I are currently doing such with a number of people over the last 6 months and we finally were able to have a young couple come and fellowship with us in our home last weekend.

Also, from what I've heard, you want to be deliberate about connecting and befriending and within a short period of time witnessing and getting them to be a part of your group. Show them love and kindness, do kind acts, try to connect and build a real relationship, but if your evangelism has been ineffective, you should move on to others who do have an ear for the gospel.
 
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Tee_w

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[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]Hi AGTG,[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]We are endeavouring to do those very things that you mentioned. Especially on the friendship side of things, although we probably need to pray more than we do at the present time. I'm seeking God for ways to honour and bless the people we have befriended. [/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]I find it quite easy to befriended and talk to strangers but moving beyond that and bringing them into a relationship with Jesus is quite another matter. I guess you sometimes need to be in for the long haul with some folk.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]We have started to get some resistance from some of the members of the local Anglican Church, in some of the outreach work we are involved in. It started as a partnership with them. But of late it seems as if things are getting a little to hot in the kitchen for their liking. We need wisdom in knowing how to proceed.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif]I take your point about not spending time with some folk who are just plain deaf[/FONT][FONT=Century Schoolbook L, serif] to our evangelism.

Blessings,
Tee:)
[/FONT]
 
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