commandments of men

[pablosrun]

Where there is no law there is no sin......

We agree to disagree!

The new covenant is God writing his laws in our hearts....why is that...

 

[cliff3]

Have you ever read the next verse....

Romans 6:15 What then? should we continue to sin that grace may abound? God forbid.

And what is sin 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the law.

So we are not under the law ,but we should keep it out of love because we are saved by grace...to keep on sinning after the knowledge of truth is dangerous..

Heb 10:26 says For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of truththere remaineth no more sacrificefor sins!!!!!!

so yes I am saved by grace now I will do all that is pleasing in his sight because I love him, and wont break his 4th commandment that was given at creation in Gen.2:3 before there ever was a Jew or Gentile

Well said.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. Man does not spell Jew. It was for all, not one group of people.

 

[2Timothy2]

Hi all. I've been gone for about a week, seems I missed a bit.

I've taken some time to re-examine my understanding on the issue of the Sabbath and keeping the law. Please believe me that I was open to changing what I believed if Scripture said something different. It didn't.

I find no mention of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the exodus from Egypt by God's mighty hand. Remember that Moses wrote Genesis around the time of Sinai, or within some few years after. The mention of God sanctifying the 7th day gave significance to what the Israelites were commanded to do concerning that day. (I still say we can not be dogmatic about the 7th creation day being the same day we now call Saturday) The Sabbath observance was part of the Covenant God made with Israel at the time of the exodus and Sinai. The first mention of anyone keeping that day is just before Sinai, when the manna first came down. Job is considered, by most scoloars, I believe*, to have occurred at the time of the Patriarchs, but there is no mention of keeping the Sabbath in this book either. Certainly Job's "counselors/friends" would have used this as a way to accuse him, and certainly Job himself would have mentioned his keeping it, if indeed keeping the Sabbath was already a commandment known to righteous men. So, the only conclusion I can draw from Scripture is that the observance of the Sabbath began after the exodus and was part of the Covenant between God and Israel. This Covenant is the very same one called "old" in the New Testament, it has been done away with, replaced by the New Covenant.

It is also significant that each one of the "10 Commandments" was repeatedin the NT as being what we must obey, except for keeping the Sabbath. In fact, there are at least a couple of references that, while some may dispute this, can be seen as saying the Sabbath need not be observed. It is also significant that the NT never tells us not to observe it, rather, it is within our Christian liberty, whether or not to observe it. To paraphrase Paul, "one observes it to God, another does not obeserve it, but to God he does not observe it." The problem arises when one tries to force others either to observe it or not to observe it. I believe I have been clear throughout this thread that I am not telling anyone they must not or should not observe the Sabbath.

So, I hope you all can see that I am not following man's traditions in this, rather, I am following what Scripture alone says.

I think the title of this thread is appropriate, however, it turns out it is actually aimed in the opposite direction than was intended, when we look at what Scripture says.

*I believe, as in I think, not only the scholars I believe as opposed to those I don't.

 

[33ad]

Praise God that you did an objective study and kept an open mind on this topic. I too did a deep study on this and had to change my views.
God Bless you.
Kolya

 

[Velcro]

It is funny, in its own way, how we each do our studies and draw our conclusions. I, too, did a deep study, utilizing both Hebrew and Greek, and learned exactly the opposite. I walked away from the 'other side, as a result" while others are confirmed in the "other side."

I think, however, that the main point is that we should not look upon those of either "side" of the issue with derision. We need to stop using the same old tired tools and quit being divisive. The day is coming, and soon I hope, when we will all learn the Truth. On that day, I believe every one of us will be looking at our own selves and our many "firm" concepts, shaking our heads, saying, "It was so simple -- why was I so blind?" On that day, the L-rd will be our Teacher, and we will finally know the whole Truth rather than theb Truth filtered through our preconceived notions and prejudices.

Bless you, 2Timothy2!

 

[cliff3]

There has only been one commandment that God said to "Remember..." and now that is the commandment that most want to forget.

In place of it man has put in their own commandment. That is to keep the 1st day of the week.

 

[holo]

Y'all need to lay aside all your human "wisdom" and denominations and traditions and opinions. Think for a second about where all your opinions and interpretations come from. From studying the bible on your own or God revealing it to you? Is there perhaps a chance some, or even most, of what you believe to be true and sound teaching and all, you just adapted and copied from your church, your mother, your friends, some christian tape or magazine?

I know most of my "knowledge" came that way. Think of it like this: if what you believe is so obviously true and right, you're bound to reach the same conclusion if you start from scratch and find out on you own, right?

We keep our houses tidy, but our hearts and minds rarely get a real spring-clean.

Exactly why do you belive what you do about homosexuals, the sabbath, the law, denominations, the trinity, all of that stuff that's probably good and well, but it's not Jesus, you might say.

 

[Velcro]

I have known many people who have claimed that the L-rd had taught them, that the H-ly Sp-r-t had shown them, that they were taught of G-d, and most of them disagreed with one another. Odd -- that "He" would show one person one thing and another person something else, isn't it. Claiming to be taught of Him is no proof that we know the Truth at all, no matter how convinced of it we are.

 

[2Timothy2]

Amen to that Velcro.

I think we always, always, always need to be open to putting our beliefs to the test of Scripture, in humble prayer and with trust in the Author.

 

[pablosrun]

I have studied the sabbath truth and have read statements from many other denominations who agree that there is no scriptural evidence for the change of the sabbath from saturday to sunday....I challenge anyone to give one verse that states the day was changed...You think if one of Gods laws was changed someone would have said something, at least a chapter, let alone a verse....Jesus new that after he died on the cross his people would still be keepin sabbath..take a look at this...Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter,neither on the sabbath day..

you see, even at the destruction of the temple in 70 ad he fortold they would still be keeping sabbath.....simple theoligy

Study study study the scriptures for in the ye think ye have eternal life!!!

 

[thereselittleflower]

There has only been one commandment that God said to "Remember..." and now that is the commandment that most want to forget.

In place of it man has put in their own commandment. That is to keep the 1st day of the week.

<sigh>

A command to remember given only to the Jews as a sign between the Jews and God in the Old Covenant.

ONLY between the Jews and God . . .

I am not a Jew . . .are you?


Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have studied the sabbath truth and have read statements from many other denominations who agree that there is no scriptural evidence for the change of the sabbath from saturday to sunday....I challenge anyone to give one verse that states the day was changed...You think if one of Gods laws was changed someone would have said something, at least a chapter, let alone a verse....Jesus new that after he died on the cross his people would still be keepin sabbath..take a look at this...Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter,neither on the sabbath day..

you see, even at the destruction of the temple in 70 ad he fortold they would still be keeping sabbath.....simple theoligy

Study study study the scriptures for in the ye think ye have eternal life!!!

I challange you to find one verse that states God is a Trinity, One BEING, THREE PERSONS.

The challanage you offer is a false one, for it creates a double standard. If you cannot provide me a verse that says God is a Trinity, One Being, 3 Persons, yet you believe it, then your requirement that there be one for 8th Day/1st Day observance instead of the 7th Day is frivolous.


Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Jesus new that after he died on the cross his people would still be keepin sabbath..take a look at this...Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter,neither on the sabbath day..

you see, even at the destruction of the temple in 70 ad he fortold they would still be keeping sabbath.....simple theoligy

Of course people would still be keeping the sabbath . . the Jewish nation did not convert to Christianity.

He gave signs to watch for . . and when those signs appeared, they were to flee. From a long time ago I remember learning that travel on the Sabbath would be difficult, as it would be for pregnant women or those who give suck, and this was the reason to pray that one's flight not be on the Sabbath. It was not because they themselves would be keeping the Sabbath, but because flight on the Sabbath would be difficult.

Jesus gave advice to flee before escape became impossible.

Something interesting, Jesus speaks of the sign of the abomination of desolation preceeding the destruction of Jerusalem. Caligula tried to set up his statues to be worshipped in temple just a year or 2 before Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. It could also refer to the Roman Army desecrating the temple.



Peace

 

[sparklz]

I challange you to find one verse that states God is a Trinity, One BEING, THREE PERSONS.

The challanage you offer is a false one, for it creates a double standard. If you cannot provide me a verse that says God is a Trinity, One Being, 3 Persons, yet you believe it, then your requirement that there be one for 8th Day/1st Day observance instead of the 7th Day is frivolous.


Peace

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 NKJV).

Pretty simple...

 

[cliff3]

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 NKJV).

Pretty simple...

I do not want to throw a spanner into the works but most people in the know will say that the verse quoted was not in the original and was added to the manuscripts.

In fact look up a Bible and it will also say the same in the footnotes.

Having said that I still believe in the Trinity.

Go to Matthew 28:19,20 where Jesus said to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

 

[cliff3]

The commandments of men do not follow the commandments of God.

God's commandments can be found in Ex.20.

Today, most will follow 9 of them and leave out the 4th.

I wonder why.

The reason can be found in that they follow tradition instead of what is in the Bible.