Commandments of God are valid in the NT including the TEN

[LoricaLady]

Romans 7:13- "Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

People in the OT, who went by the letter of law, could not keep it through to the end, not one of them, not even Moses, it was what kept him out of the promised land...

Nor did any of the others... Let alone the Spirit of them, in the OT by the letter of it was more what I meant...

God Bless!

Again, you go on talking about the Bible when you really haven't even studied it. Moses did not break a Commandment when he struck the rock which led the Father to prevent Him from going into the Promised Land. Did he commit adultery, bow down to other gods, fail to be circumcised and so on? No. And oh yeal, his successor, Joshuah, what law is he said to have broken? You won't be able to find any at all.

I have already said twice that John the Baptist's parents were called flawless in keeping the Law, yet you are saying no one could keep it! "Not one...nor did any of the others...." Baloney. Do your simple homework and research. Read the Bible.

Read the Bible. Prayerfully. You are missing out on great truths. Byeeeeeeee.

 

[Neogaia777]

This will be my last post here due to time constraints.. Also, it is kind of disheartening to see people acting like, well, experts on the Bible when they obviously haven't done basic research on it, really read it.

Yes we have a different culture and a different calendar, the Gregorian calendar. But we don't have to go by the Gregorian calendar. We can go by the calendar the Lord instituted, that has been preserved by the Jews down through the ages. You act like the Sabbath they, and non Jewish Sabbath keepers, keep is not a correct one. Once again, you act like you know what you are talking about, but actually, frankly, show you do not. The Gregorian calendar changed some things but it did not change the 7th day and you obviously have done zero research to support your belief that it did.

I keep the Sabbath and try to observe, as best as I can, the high holy days. Again, the Temple was destroyed so it is not possible to keep those holy days as directed, until the Millenium where we see, in the Old Testament, that they will be observed correctly.

As for circumcision it is still in effect. But NOT for salvation. Nothing leads to salvation except the shed blood of the Isaiah 53 Messiah. None of the Law leads to salvation. Deciding we know better though and making up our rules can certainly lead away from salvation though.

Bye!

Galatians 2:14- "But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

Galatians 5:1-4- "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Romans 2:29- "No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

And many, many other words by Paul, but also including the ones you spoke of earlier about the Law by him also...

Your not taking it in it's entirety, you picking parts you like and that agree with your point of view while ignoring others, I am taking in it's entirety...

God Bless!

 

[LoricaLady]

ANYONE: I will not be back to this string as I said, due to time constraints. May we all come into all truth, and that starts with what the Bible really says, not what people think it says. Blessings and bye.

 

[Neogaia777]

Again, you go on talking about the Bible when you really haven't even studied it. Moses did not break a Commandment when he struck the rock which led the Father to prevent Him from going into the Promised Land. Did he commit adultery, bow down to other gods, fail to be circumcised and so on? No. And oh yeal, his successor, Joshuah, what law is he said to have broken? You won't be able to find any at all.

I have already said twice that John the Baptist's parents were called flawless in keeping the Law, yet you are saying no one could keep it! "Not one...nor did any of the others...." Baloney. Do your simple homework and research. Read the Bible.

Read the Bible. Prayerfully. You are missing out on great truths. Byeeeeeeee.

It was his anger (malice) at the people (hating them in his heart, the Spirit of it) and he directly disobey God's verbal commands to him directly, which is even worse than breaking any law...

He failed to live up to the Law in God's eyes at that point.

God Bless!

 

[LoricaLady]

1 John: 3-4 For sin is the breaking of the Law.

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of YHWH, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slave whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness? [This is clearly saying that sin leads to death, i.e. eternal death. Yes, there is mercy, and there are so many opportunities to turn around, countless "2nd chances", but sin still leads to eternal death if we don't take it seriously and take it to the Lord. Not my opinion. It's what the Word says over and over.

These quotes are mostly from Paul whom we are often taught said the law was no longer in effect. Here is another quote from him.

Acts 25:8 Paul denied the charges. “I am not guilty of any crime against the Jewish laws or the Temple or the Roman government,” he said.

Oh, and we can't say there is one law for Jews like Paul and one law for the rest of us. The Bible never even hints at any such divide. In fact in the Torah we are told that aliens/foreigners are to obey the same Law in Israel as the Israelites, and in the New Testament we are told "There is neither Greek nor Jew."

The Bible can seem confusing and contradictory. Again, I recommend Psalm 119 Ministries You Tube vids, starting with either The Sabbath or The Pauline Paradox. Their vids are for those who really look at the Bible not just quote something they heard here or there.

 

[Neogaia777]

Again, you go on talking about the Bible when you really haven't even studied it. Moses did not break a Commandment when he struck the rock which led the Father to prevent Him from going into the Promised Land. Did he commit adultery, bow down to other gods, fail to be circumcised and so on? No. And oh yeal, his successor, Joshuah, what law is he said to have broken? You won't be able to find any at all.

I have already said twice that John the Baptist's parents were called flawless in keeping the Law, yet you are saying no one could keep it! "Not one...nor did any of the others...." Baloney. Do your simple homework and research. Read the Bible.

Read the Bible. Prayerfully. You are missing out on great truths. Byeeeeeeee.

There were only a couple exceptions, (and only a couple) but that was because they had the Spirit with them, and God did it in them, and for them, because he needed them to be that way for a specific purpose... And for John to born as he was and was to be, God made his parents that way...

Most could not, and without the Spirit you can't, and it is not you doing it in your own strength, but the Holy Spirit in you doing it for you...

This is all throughout, without the the Spirit and if not by the Spirit it is impossible...

God Bless!

 

[LoricaLady]

It was his anger (malice) at the people (hating them in his heart, the Spirit of it) and he directly disobey God's verbal commands to him directly, which is even worse than breaking any law...

He failed to live up to the Law in God's eyes at that point.

God Bless!

I can see your point on that. Nevertheless, what Moses did at the rock does not show that the Law was impossible to keep. Again, the Lord said it was not difficult. It would be horrible of Him to Command what could never be done. For I guess the 4th time I will say what the Bible says, namely that John the Baptist's parents kept the Law flawlessly. There is no reason to assume they were the only ones who did that. One way or another the point is made that the Law was not impossible to keep.

 

[LoricaLady]

Bye!

 

[Neogaia777]

1 John: 3-4 For sin is the breaking of the Law.

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of YHWH, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slave whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness? [This is clearly saying that sin leads to death, i.e. eternal death. Yes, there is mercy, and there are so many opportunities to turn around, countless "2nd chances", but sin still leads to eternal death if we don't take it seriously and take it to the Lord. Not my opinion. It's what the Word says over and over.

These quotes are mostly from Paul whom we are often taught said the law was no longer in effect. Here is another quote from him.

Acts 25:8 Paul denied the charges. “I am not guilty of any crime against the Jewish laws or the Temple or the Roman government,” he said.

Oh, and we can't say there is one law for Jews like Paul and one law for the rest of us. The Bible never even hints at any such divide. In fact in the Torah we are told that aliens/foreigners are to obey the same Law in Israel as the Israelites, and in the New Testament we are told "There is neither Greek nor Jew."

The Bible can seem confusing and contradictory. Again, I recommend Psalm 119 Ministries You Tube vids, starting with either The Sabbath or The Pauline Paradox. Their vids are for those who really look at the Bible not just quote something they heard here or there.

You ignore everything else Paul said, anyhow, good day, I'm done here for now, I'm moving onto more productive conversations as I can see this is pretty pointless...

God Bless!

 

[LoricaLady]

Paul is not the Lord. I do not ignore the apparent contradictions in what he said. You do, though. I referred people to Psalm 119 Ministries which can clear them up. I certainly don't have time to do that and they can do the job far better than I can. Very scholarly source, in terms of the Greek, history and of course the Bible.

 

[LoricaLady]

I won't be back to look at this string 'lest I be tempted to keep going. So anyone can have the last word here if you so desire. But of course the LORD gets the truly last word.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes we have a different culture and a different calendar, the Gregorian calendar. But we don't have to go by the Gregorian calendar. We can go by the calendar the Lord instituted, that has been preserved by the Jews down through the ages. You act like the Sabbath they, and non Jewish Sabbath keepers, keep is not a correct one. Once again, you act like you know what you are talking about, but actually, frankly, show you do not. The Gregorian calendar changed some things but it did not change the 7th day and you obviously have done zero research to support your belief that it did.

certainly it is true that the Gregorian calendar change did not alter the days of the week any more than leap year changes the days of the week.

 

[Neogaia777]

I won't be back to look at this string 'lest I be tempted to keep going. So anyone can have the last word here if you so desire. But of course the LORD gets the truly last word.

Ok, Ok, I will be the first to apologize K...? I may have been a little hasty, and you can have the last word if you want K... This will be last post to you here for a little while I promise K... I am going to look into more of what you said before I think of replying to you again, if I do, K... You said I missed some things, and I may have, and I will seek out for myself if their was some truth to what you have said that I might have overlooked or ignored or be missing, I promise K...?

And again, I apologize K, and will look more in depth to what your saying before replying to you again, K...

Sorry again,

God Bless You!

 

[BobRyan]

This Forum is called The Sabbath and the Law. Just following the stated purpose for this Forum.
If we are going to defend the 10 Commandments, the one that needs to be defended most, the one that is disregarded most, is the 4th.

Ok but I have 4 or 5 threads already dedicated to defending the Sabbath Commandment .. I was hoping for one that was more general in nature because more and more I see that those who oppose the Sabbath first and foremost also appose the TEN commandments claiming they are all old covenant and abolished.. and the new covenant is just 1 or 2 or 3 commands

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

(This thread will focus on identifying the Commandments of God, the Law of God... and is not a specific focus on the 4th commandment)

What commandments are "God's Commandments" according to NT writers?

And why is it that in the New Covenant the "Law of God" is written on the heart?
Jer 31:31-33 (Hebrews 8:6-11 unchanged New Covenant)

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is "the first commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN..

Rom 13:9-10
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

same as they had in Matt 19 before the cross (According to Christ)

Matt 19
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “
‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” (Lev 19:18

And of course the entire Ten are pulled in with Eph 6:2 showing that the 5th commandment is the first commandment in that list of Ten "with a promise".

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

James 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Romans 3 "through the law comes the knowledge of sin" Rom 3:20

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
==================================
some - have supposed that the term "10" is never mentioned with commandments and I know a few readers here will find it hard to take that idea seriously given the text we see below

Ex 34
And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke.
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
29 Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand when he came down from the mountain)

The “TERM” TEN COMMANDMENTs applies ONLY to those words written on stone. A distinct unit – a distinct “name”. They are not called the “613 Commandments” and they are not downsized to something called “The NINE commandments” by NT authors or OT authors – “no not in all of scripture”!

Deut 5
22 ""These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deuteronomy 4:13
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4
"He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me.

==================================
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
And John can say "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And even "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:2-3


In a discussion involving the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19, and the Catholic Catechism (And D.L Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments) -- the statements made above are not even called into question - rather it is a much-affirmed "given" that the TEN are included in the moral law of God "Written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33

(And so as you can see in my signature line below -- I affirm them for doing so)

The Ten Commandment have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The risen, glorified Jesus has become the Law for us. Therefore, New Covenant believers do not follow the Ten Commandments as a rule for living. We follow Jesus and walk in the Spirit. Therefore we will walk in holiness, not by follow a set of external rules set out in a rule book, but by the Holy Spirit within us who moderates our conduct as we maintain our faith in Christ.

There will be many in hell who followed the Ten Commandments and thought they were doing right in the sight of God, but when they stand before Christ and cry out "Lord, Lord, didn't we follow all the rules?" He will say, "I never knew you, because you followed the rules as part of your religion, but not from your heart".

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandment have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

so then "do not take God's name in vain" fulfilled.
so then "Honor your father and mother" fulfilled.

And then THIS.

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Instead of this bit of creative writing on my part

Children no need to obey your parents in the Lord, even though it would have been right because 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), is fulfilled already

The risen, glorified Jesus has become the Law for us. Therefore, New Covenant believers do not follow the Ten Commandments as a rule for living.

No such text as the creative writing you put there so not at all surprising that you post no text for it or describe it as a quote

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 the ones where the 5th commandment is still "the first commandment with a promise"

"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

When asked "Which ones" in Matt 19 Jesus quotes from the TEN ... in the NEW Testament

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

so then "do not take God's name in vain" fulfilled.
so then "Honor your father and mother" fulfilled.

And then THIS.

Eph 6
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Instead of this bit of creative writing on my part

Children no need to obey your parents in the Lord, even though it would have been right because 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), is fulfilled already




No such text as the creative writing you put there so not at all surprising that you post no text for it or describe it as a quote

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 the ones where the 5th commandment is still "the first commandment with a promise"

"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

When asked "Which ones" in Matt 19 Jesus quotes from the TEN ... in the NEW Testament

Jesus spoke those things to unconverted Jews before the New Covenant was put into place.

The New Covenant is based on faith in Jesus Christ, Who has fulfilled the Law in that He kept it for us and then paid our penalty for our breaking of it. Therefore, the Jewish Law in the rule book has been made obsolete and has been replaced by the new Law written on our hearts through our faith in Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit in us.

This is why John says that the person who is born of God cannot sin because the seed of God is within him. This means that no believer can be judged by the requirements of the Law, because Jesus has already met them and paid the price for our failure.

This means that the person who tries to be accepted of God by trying to obey the Jewish Law as set out in Deuteronomy, is not of Christ, because one cannot follow the Law and Christ at the same time. he either follows the Law which brings a curse on him, or he follows Christ which is life and peace to him.

This also means that anyone who teaches that believers should follow the Ten Commandments as written in Deuteronomy in order to avoid judgment, is a false teacher and not only brings judgment upon themselves but deception and judgment upon those who complies with his teaching.

That was Paul's clear teaching in Galatians if you take the time to read it.

It is clearly said that no person is justified by keeping the Law.

 

[BobRyan]

"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

When asked "Which ones" in Matt 19 Jesus quotes from the TEN ... in the NEW Testament

Jesus spoke those things to unconverted Jews before the New Covenant was put into place.

New Covenant is long before that - as Jeremiah 31:31-33 reminds us.

Christians teaching the message "don't listen to the teaching of Jesus" will have a problem with Matthew 28 .. because the book of Matthew is a case where Matthew is fulfilling his mission given to him by Christ.

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”