Commandments of God are valid in the NT including the TEN

BobRyan said:

(This thread will focus on identifying the Commandments of God, the Law of God... and is not a specific focus on the 4th commandment)

What commandments are "God's Commandments" according to NT writers?

And why is it that in the New Covenant the "Law of God" is written on the heart?
Jer 31:31-33 (Hebrews 8:6-11 unchanged New Covenant)

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is "the first commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN..

Rom 13:9-10
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

same as they had in Matt 19 before the cross (According to Christ)

Matt 19
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “
‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” (Lev 19:18

And of course the entire Ten are pulled in with Eph 6:2 showing that the 5th commandment is the first commandment in that list of Ten "with a promise".

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

James 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Romans 3 "through the law comes the knowledge of sin" Rom 3:20

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
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some - have supposed that the term "10" is never mentioned with commandments and I know a few readers here will find it hard to take that idea seriously given the text we see below

Ex 34
And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke.
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
29 Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand when he came down from the mountain)

The “TERM” TEN COMMANDMENTs applies ONLY to those words written on stone. A distinct unit – a distinct “name”. They are not called the “613 Commandments” and they are not downsized to something called “The NINE commandments” by NT authors or OT authors – “no not in all of scripture”!

Deut 5
22 ""These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deuteronomy 4:13
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4
"He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me.

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1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
And John can say "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And even "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:2-3


In a discussion involving the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19, and the Catholic Catechism (And D.L Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments) -- the statements made above are not even called into question - rather it is a much-affirmed "given" that the TEN are included in the moral law of God "Written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33

(And so as you can see in my signature line below -- I affirm them for doing so)

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You may not realize that the NT raises the bar even way higher than what just the letter of the Ten Commandments expresses, by the letter of them... and it is our, at first, (and this is a necessary first step that if you haven't taken yet, you are not even born again yet, cause you have to die or allow the commandments to kill you and your own will first)... Anyway, the NT raises the bar much much higher than the letter of the ten expresses, and you must first acknowledge your failure to be able to live up to or keep them in your own will and strength, then die to your own will, then you can become born again, and embrace His will or power working in and through you and not your own, and then begin the walk of Him sanctifying you, and not you sanctifying yourself, and hope that near the end of that walk, there is some chance of you living up to and keeping them fully, but only if it is not done in your own will and power that you were supposed to die to, for if you do go back to trying to do it in your own will, you will not only be completely unsuccessful, but it will be like going back to start all over again, and you'll have to try and walk it out again, by His will and not your own all over again...

Don't know if you realize that or not, but that's just the plain truth of it...

That's Grace and so that He gets all the credit and not yourself...

God Bless!

error post

How can we talk about the Commandments while evading the 4th Commandment? It is the longest of them all. It is the one that is call the sign of the very Covenant between the Lord and His people. We need not let traditions of men cause us to be shy in talking about it.

In the Bible we are told that YHWH, aka God, "never changes." We are also told that He "will not alter what goes out of" His mouth. At Mt. Sinai, to the ears of the terrified Israelites below, He audibly spoke the 10 Commandments. This included a Friday nightfall to Saturday nightfall Sabbath.

Now neither the Father nor the Son contradicted what was said. Ever. But people will say "Paul said this and Paul said that." The first problem there is that they are actually believing (and I used to be the same way) that Paul had any authority whatsoever to change anything whatsoever that was ordained by the Lord! Really, he didn't try to do that. His words are misunderstood. But, whatever, he had no authority to change a Commandment.

The first law of logic is that two contradictory statements cannot be true. In the Bible we are warned very sternly not to add to, or subtract from Scriptures. That applied to Paul just as much as to you and me. It cannot be true that we are not to change the Scriptures, but that, oh wait, yes we can because Paul did. It cannot both be true that YHWH said He would not alter what goes out of His mouth, and that the Commandments were for all generations, and also be true that he does alter what He says, and the the Commandments were NOT for all generations. Doesn't alter means doesn't alter. All generations means all generations.

In the books of Acts Stephen is falsely accused. What is he falsely accused of? Of saying that Yahushuah, aka Jesus, wanted to change the Laws and customs of Moses.

Please no one quote me what Paul said to supposedly change the Sabbath. Or, if you do, by all means give me a single verse that says he was given the authority to change in anyway what was spoken by the Lord, and written with His very finger. The verse, now, not your opinion.

And please don't say that this Bible verse over here implies that the Sabbath was changed. Please don't say that verse over there suggests that the Sabbath was changed. The Sabbath was not changed. The Bible never says it was. While people focus on "suggests....implies....can be interpreted as...." they show cognitive dissonance. On the one hand they claim to believe the Bible. But when the Lord says He will not alter what goes out of His mouth, and when He says the Commandments are "for all generations" they say, in effect, "Well, those parts are not true." When Paul says not to follow him, but the Savior, they ignore that and follow the so called change in a Commandment that Paul never said was changed and had no right to change.

1 John: 3-4 For sin is the breaking of the Law.

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of YHWH, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slave whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness? [This is clearly saying that sin leads to death, i.e. eternal death. Yes, there is mercy, and there are so many opportunities to turn around, countless "2nd chances", but sin still leads to eternal death if we don't take it seriously and take it to the Lord. Not my opinion. It's what the Word says over and over.

These quotes are mostly from Paul whom we are often taught said the law was no longer in effect. Here is another quote from him.

Acts 25:8 Paul denied the charges. “I am not guilty of any crime against the Jewish laws or the Temple or the Roman government,” he said.

Oh, and we can't say there is one law for Jews like Paul and one law for the rest of us. The Bible never even hints at any such divide. In fact in the Torah we are told that aliens/foreigners are to obey the same Law in Israel as the Israelites, and in the New Testament we are told "There is neither Greek nor Jew."

If you ever want to hear how traditions of men have been leading us astray, Psalm 119 Ministries is a great resource, maybe starting with The Sabbath or The Pauline Paradox. That Ministry shows how the Old and New Testament are all true, and in perfect harmony with each other

LoricaLady said:

In the Bible we are told that YHWH, aka God, "never changes." We are also told that He "will not alter what goes out of" His mouth. At Mt. Sinai, to the ears of the terrified Israelites below, He audibly spoke the 10 Commandments. This included a Friday nightfall to Saturday nightfall Sabbath.

Now neither the Father nor the Son contradicted what was said. Ever. But people will say "Paul said this and Paul said that." The first problem there is that they are actually believing (and I used to be the same way) that Paul had any authority whatsoever to change anything whatsoever that was ordained by the Lord! Really, he didn't try to do that. His words are misunderstood. But, whatever, he had no authority to change a Commandment.

The first law of logic is that two contradictory statements cannot be true. In the Bible we are warned very sternly not to add to, or subtract from Scriptures. That applied to Paul just as much as to you and me. It cannot be true that we are not to change the Scriptures, but that, oh wait, yes we can because Paul did. It cannot both be true that YHWH said He would not alter what goes out of His mouth, and that the Commandments were for all generations, and also be true that he does alter what He says, and the the Commandments were NOT for all generations. Doesn't alter means doesn't alter. All generations means all generations.

In the books of Acts Stephen is falsely accused. What is he falsely accused of? Of saying that Yahushuah, aka Jesus, wanted to change the Laws and customs of Moses.

Please no one quote me what Paul said to supposedly change the Sabbath. Or, if you do, by all means give me a single verse that says he was given the authority to change in anyway what was spoken by the Lord, and written with His very finger. The verse, now, not your opinion.

And please don't say that this Bible verse over here implies that the Sabbath was changed. Please don't say that verse over there suggests that the Sabbath was changed. The Sabbath was not changed. The Bible never says it was. While people focus on "suggests....implies....can be interpreted as...." they show cognitive dissonance. On the one hand they claim to believe the Bible. But when the Lord says He will not alter what goes out of His mouth, and when He says the Commandments are "for all generations" they say, in effect, "Well, those parts are not true." When Paul says not to follow him, but the Savior, they ignore that and follow the so called change in a Commandment that Paul never said was changed and had no right to change.

1 John: 3-4 For sin is the breaking of the Law.

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of YHWH, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slave whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness? [This is clearly saying that sin leads to death, i.e. eternal death. Yes, there is mercy, and there are so many opportunities to turn around, countless "2nd chances", but sin still leads to eternal death if we don't take it seriously and take it to the Lord. Not my opinion. It's what the Word says over and over.

These quotes are mostly from Paul whom we are often taught said the law was no longer in effect. Here is another quote from him.

Acts 25:8 Paul denied the charges. “I am not guilty of any crime against the Jewish laws or the Temple or the Roman government,” he said.

Oh, and we can't say there is one law for Jews like Paul and one law for the rest of us. The Bible never even hints at any such divide. In fact in the Torah we are told that aliens/foreigners are to obey the same Law in Israel as the Israelites, and in the New Testament we are told "There is neither Greek nor Jew."

If you ever want to hear how traditions of men have been leading us astray, Psalm 119 Ministries is a great resource, maybe starting with The Sabbath or The Pauline Paradox. That Ministry shows how the Old and New Testament are all true, and in perfect harmony with each other

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BobRyan said:

Certainly it is one of the Ten ...no question about it.

But the focus of the thread is to point out a few basics -- like the fact that the TEN are valid in both NT and OT.

Sometimes we have to take the basic steps before getting into more details.

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This Forum is called The Sabbath and the Law. Just following the stated purpose for this Forum.
If we are going to defend the 10 Commandments, the one that needs to be defended most, the one that is disregarded most, is the 4th.

BobRyan said:

1. first of all it is true that only the saved saint of OT and NT could keep the Law of God ... so then Moses standing "with Christ" in Matthew 17 has to have been a "saved saint" while living on Earth since there is no such thing as "get saved after you die".
2. Second that statement is interesting as a response to "do not take God's name in vain" because it is true of all commandments of God - that only the saved saint with the indwelling Holy Spirit can obey as God requires.
3. Question ... when you hear someone affirm the law of God regarding "not committing adultery" or "not taking God's name in vain" is it your first thought that they are probably "trying to get the glory for themselves"???

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To number 3, I don't know... I don't know if I can assume they all are, but maybe some are, as is true with a lot of groups, some are true and genuine and truly genuine, while some others are maybe not so much... And it's sometimes hard for me to tell, I tend to withhold judging till I feel it or sense it in my Spirit, but even then I still try my best to be careful with how I respond or proceed, not always perfect though, and I'm sure sometimes I probably make mistakes...

I don't think we are disagreeing on number 1 and 2, do you...?

God Bless!

BobRyan said:

No disagreement - I agree with you that commandment keeping is only possible as a born-again Christian.

But My question is about some of the basics like "do not take God's name in vain" and "do not commit adultery" - which we may hear in sermons or in hearing Christian parents instructing children or in the case of Bible teachers in church instructing the youth etc. Most often it is a matter of affirming that teaching ... seldom ever do we caution against trying not to take God's name in vain, if there is some chance you might not already be a fully committed believer walking in the fullness of grace.

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Not to be argumentative but it is part of the traditions of men that Commandment keeping is only possible with born-again Christians. John the Baptist's parents are called faultless in keeping the Law. Don't you think that John was also - not to mention many great men and great prophets mentioned in the Bible? Who knows how many, never mentioned in the Bible, also kept the Commandments.

P.S. The Father would never give us Commandments we could not keep. That would be unfair and irrational.

LoricaLady said:

This Forum is called The Sabbath and the Law. Just following the stated purpose for this Forum.
If we are going to defend the 10 Commandments, the one that needs to be defended most, the one that is disregarded most, is the 4th.

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Do not confuse the Spirit or heart of a Law with the letter of it though, or put the letter of it above the Spirit of it though...

For example, the commandment, "do not commit adultery", one could still obey the letter of it and disobey it's Spirit or the Spirit of it, which is not to even look with lust ever...

And the commandment to not commit murder, you could still hate a brother or sister in your heart, which goes against the Spirit of it...

The Spirit of a Law is superior and expresses it much better than the letter of it does...

The fourth commandment is a little tricky, cause we wonder if it has to be a specific day and or times, etc, or if the Spirit of it was just commanding a day or rest and worship (at least) one day a week, or not...? People wonder about that one a lot, and wonder if the Spirit of that law was meant to be taken so very literally, cause literally is more like the letter than the Spirit of it... And if by taking it so very literally, if you are putting or placing the letter of it above the Spirit of it, or are getting those two confused...?

Sometimes taking a law to literally by the letter of it, can make one miss out and judge and condemn those who are trying to adhere to what they think is the Spirit of it, with like the fourth commandment for example, some are unable, due to a change in times or whatever, or what have you, to strictly adhere to the literal letter of it, and don't see it as important as adhering to the Spirit of it anyway, which is what they believe they are doing...?

Who's right, IDK...? But, I would have to think the Spirit of Law is the "intentions" of it, which would be where we would derive it's true meaning from, like Jesus said about the commandments of not committing adultery and murder, it stands to reason that if, by the letter of those, they were not to be taken fully literally, that it might be the same for some other commands or commandments as well maybe...?

With the two commandments about adultery and murder, Jesus seemed to make them even more strict and binding, (raised the bar on them) but, and I think this is where some people might get tripped up, with the fourth commandment, what some think is the Spirit of it, might be "looser or less strict or binding" than the letter of it, (or is lowering the bar on it) but, again, if the letter of some laws, did not express the true Spirit of it/them, then it might stand to reason that that might apply to things or commandments like the fourth commandment as well maybe...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

LoricaLady said:

How can we talk about the Commandments while evading the 4th Commandment? It is the longest of them all. It is the one that is call the sign of the very Covenant between the Lord and His people. We need not let traditions of men cause us to be shy in talking about it.

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You mean this one?

Exodus 34:
4th commandment
19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck.

Of the three versions of the ten commandments found in the Bible Exodus 34 is the only one that self identifies as "the ten commandments".

Neogaia777 said:

Do not confuse the Spirit or heart of a Law with the letter of it though, or put the letter of it above the Spirit of it though...

For example, the commandment, "do not commit adultery", one could still obey the letter of it and disobey it's Spirit or the Spirit of it, which is not to even look with lust ever...

And the commandment to not commit murder, you could still hate a brother or sister in your heart, which goes against the Spirit of it...

The Spirit of a Law is superior and expresses it much better than the letter of it does...

The fourth commandment is a little tricky, cause we wonder if it has to be a specific day and or times, etc, or if the Spirit of it was just commanding a day or rest and worship (at least) one day a week, or not...? People wonder about that one a lot, and wonder if the Spirit of that law was meant to be taken so very literally, cause literally is more like the letter than the Spirit of it... And if by taking it so very literally, if you are putting or placing the letter of it above the Spirit of it, or are getting those two confused...?

Sometimes taking a law to literally by the letter of it, can make one miss out and judge and condemn those who are trying to adhere to what they think is the Spirit of it, with like the fourth commandment for example, some are unable, due to a change in times or whatever, or what have you, to strictly adhere to the literal letter of it, and don't see it as important as adhering to the Spirit of it anyway, which is what they believe they are doing...?

Who's right, IDK...? But, I would have to think the Spirit of Law is the "intentions" of it, which would be where we would derive it's true meaning from, like Jesus said about the commandments of not committing adultery and murder, it stands to reason that if, by the letter of those, they were not to be taken fully literally, that it might be the same for some other commands or commandments as well maybe...?

With the two commandments about adultery and murder, Jesus seemed to make them even more strict and binding, (raised the bar on them) but, and I think this is where some people might get tripped up, with the fourth commandment, what some think is the Spirit of it, might be "looser or less strict or binding" than the letter of it, (or is lowering the bar on it) but, again, if the letter of some laws, did not express the true Spirit of it/them, then it might stand to reason that that might apply to things or commandments like the fourth commandment as well maybe...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

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I never said the spirit of the Law is not even more important than the letter of the Law. Messiah made that clear when he said to even lust over a woman was adultery in the heart. But he still wanted people to obey, also, the letter of the Law as when He told the lady caught in adultery, "Go and sin no more." "No more" refers to her past physical activities, though it could have also referred to sin in her heart of course.

You cannot keep the Spirit of the Law and simultaneously disobey the letter of the Law! Can you steal, or murder, or bow down to other gods - all in the flesh, and have a pure heart about those things at the same time? Of course not.

There is nothing tricky about the Sabbath. We are told exactly when it is. We are told how to keep it.

LoricaLady said:

P.S. The Father would never give us Commandments we could not keep. That would be unfair and irrational.

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There is a way to keep them, and there is a way to only think you may be keeping them, but you would be wrong, as I said in post #2...

The Law was given (at first) so that transgressions or sins would become worse and even more sinful, along with a bunch of other things Paul said about them, but Paul did not nullify them, as you yourself pointed out, and you are very right in that, Paul did not nullify them or change the standard. It is just that there is a new and better way in Christ, and a way that actually works and has an actual chance of success, instead of doesn't work, ever, and has no chance of success, a way I point out in post #2...

All the people who tried to keep the OT commandments failed in keeping the Spirit of them, to keep the Spirit of them, it cannot be done in your own will or power or ability in and of your own self, etc...

All that I am talking about is fully expressed in and throughout all of the NT, if you take it in it's entirety, etc...

God Bless!

JackRT said:

You mean this one?

Exodus 34:
4th commandment
19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck.

Of the three versions of the ten commandments found in the Bible Exodus 34 is the only one that self identifies as "the ten commandments".

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There are not 3 versions of the 10 Commandments. In one place they are somewhat abbreviated and in another place they are elaborated on. In no place do they contradict each other.

The 4th commandment has nothing to do with Exodus 34:19. It is referring to one of the high holy days, in this case what is called the Feast of Weeks. If you are going to quote Scriptures kindly read them carefully and understand what you are seeing.

Yes, animal sacrifice is part of the Bible. That cannot be done now because such sacrifice was to be part of the Temple offerings. In 70 A.D. the Temple was destroyed and the Rabbinic priesthood was thrown to the winds. But animal sacrifice, per the Old Testament, will be reinstituted in the coming Millennium of Peace, when the Temple is restored in its glory. You may think animal sacrifice is primitive. In the Temple the animals were slaughtered in humane ways. It beat the heck out of the way the source for your last hamburger, usually coming from the horrors of factory farming, got onto your plate.

Neogaia777 said:

There is a way to keep them, and there is a way to only think you may be keeping them, but you would be wrong, as I said in post #2...

The Law was given (at first) so that transgressions or sins would become worse and even more sinful, along with a bunch of other things Paul said about them, but Paul did not nullify them, as you yourself pointed out, and you are very right in that, Paul did not nullify them or change the standard. It is just that there is a new and better way in Christ, and a way that actually works and has an actual chance of success, instead of doesn't work, ever, and has no chance of success, a way I point out in post #2...

All the people who tried to keep the OT commandments failed in keeping the Spirit of them, to keep the Spirit of them, it cannot be done in your own will or power or ability in and of your own self, etc...

All that I am talking about is fully expressed in and throughout all of the NT, if you take it in it's entirety, etc...

God Bless!

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You said "The Law was given (at first) so that transgressions or sins would become worse and even more sinful, along with a bunch of other things." The Bible never says, or even implies, any such thing. The Law was given to us as a gift, a guide from the Heavenly Father on how to live our lives. You think people can't stop themselves from committing adultery, murder, so on?

You also said that all the people who tried to keep the Commandments failed utterly. I see people saying things that are not only not in the Bible, but also which contradict the Bible. As I said above, John the Baptist's parents were said to have kept the Law flawlessly, and we can assume John - and who knows how many other righteous people - did also. There is no reason to assume no one could keep the Commandments and the Lord Himself said they were not hard to follow.
Please really read the Bible. Prayerfully.

LoricaLady said:

I never said the spirit of the Law is not even more important than the letter of the Law. Messiah made that clear when he said to even lust over a woman was adultery in the heart. But he still wanted people to obey, also, the letter of the Law as when He told the lady caught in adultery, "Go and sin no more." "No more" refers to her past physical activities, though it could have also referred to sin in her heart of course.

You cannot keep the Spirit of the Law and simultaneously disobey the letter of the Law! Can you steal, or murder, or bow down to other gods - all in the flesh, and have a pure heart about those things at the same time? Of course not.

There is nothing tricky about the Sabbath. We are told exactly when it is. We are told how to keep it.

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On the seventh day you shall rest, worship, etc, right...? You do realize we have a different calendar now don't you...? The Bible only commands a seventh day Sabbath, on the Seventh day of the week... Do you go by the OT Jewish Calendar in all other areas of your whole entire life, or keep it's "Sabbaths" and festivals, etc, or everything else that was to be done in going by the OT Jewish Calendar under all the OT Law...?

Cause, if you don't, then your Saturday Sabbath worship is in vain...

And do you keep all of the OT commands or commandments or laws, or do all of what it commands or says, in all situations and circumstances, because if you do not, your strict Sabbath keeping by the letter of it is in vain...

I suppose you think an uncircumcised person is not ever saved, because the Spirit of it goes against the letter of it then...?

And there are others and other examples, where the Spirit of an OT law or command did go against the letter of it also, or the letter went against the Spirit of it, so...

Anyway, I was trying to be nice, but...?

And do no work on the Sabbath, do you believe as the Pharisees used to that carrying or picking up a stick was working on the Sabbath, or that Jesus violated that for working on it, like He was accused of so very, very, many times...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

On the seventh day you shall rest, worship, etc, right...? You do realize we have a different calendar now don't you...? The Bible only commands a seventh day Sabbath, on the Seventh day of the week... Do you go by the OT Jewish Calendar in all other areas or you whole entire life, or keep it's "Sabbaths" and festivals, etc, or everything else that was to be done in going by the OT Jewish Calendar under all the OT Law...?

Cause, if you don't, then You Saturday Sabbath worship is in vain...

And do you keep all of the OT commands or commandments or laws, or do all of what it commands or says, in all situations and circumstances, because if you do not, your strict Sabbath keeping by the letter of it is in vain...

I suppose you think an uncircumcised person is not ever saved, because the Spirit of it goes against the letter of it then...?

And there are others and other examples, where the Spirit of an OT law or command did go against the letter of it also, or the letter went against the Spirit of it, so...

Anyway, I was trying to be nice, but...?

God Bless!

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This will be my last post here due to time constraints.. Also, it is kind of disheartening to see people acting like, well, experts on the Bible when they obviously haven't done basic research on it, really read it.

Yes we have a different culture and a different calendar, the Gregorian calendar. But we don't have to go by the Gregorian calendar. We can go by the calendar the Lord instituted, that has been preserved by the Jews down through the ages. You act like the Sabbath they, and non Jewish Sabbath keepers, keep is not a correct one. Once again, you act like you know what you are talking about, but actually, frankly, show you do not. The Gregorian calendar changed some things but it did not change the 7th day and you obviously have done zero research to support your belief that it did.

I keep the Sabbath and try to observe, as best as I can, the high holy days. Again, the Temple was destroyed so it is not possible to keep those holy days as directed, until the Millenium where we see, in the Old Testament, that they will be observed correctly.

As for circumcision it is still in effect. But NOT for salvation. Nothing leads to salvation except the shed blood of the Isaiah 53 Messiah. None of the Law leads to salvation. Deciding we know better though and making up our own rules can certainly lead away from salvation though.

Bye!

LoricaLady said:

You said "The Law was given (at first) so that transgressions or sins would become worse and even more sinful, along with a bunch of other things." The Bible never says, or even implies, any such thing. The Law was given to us as a gift, a guide from the Heavenly Father on how to live our lives. You think people can't stop themselves from committing adultery, murder, so on?

You also said that all the people who tried to keep the Commandments failed utterly. I see people saying things that are not only not in the Bible, but also which contradict the Bible. As I said above, John the Baptist's parents were said to have kept the Law flawlessly, and we can assume John - and who knows how many other righteous people - did also. There is no reason to assume no one could keep the Commandments and the Lord Himself said they were not hard to follow.
Please really read the Bible. Prayerfully.

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Romans 7:13- "Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

People in the OT, who went by the letter of law, could not keep it through to the end, not one of them, not even Moses, it was what kept him out of the promised land...

Nor did any of the others... Let alone the Spirit of them, in the OT by the letter of it was more what I meant...

God Bless!