College

[Crusader05]

Not even for a minnute

Yeah, I dont blame you!

 

[jayem]

In general, there is a clear positive correlation between level of income, and educational level. Here's a table from infoplease.com. Median annual income in 2004 for men with high school completion or the equivalent was $35, 725. For men with Bachelor's degrees , it was $57,220. These are medians, which means half of each sample made more or less.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html

Here's a Census report in more detail.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf

Just going by the odds, college confers a significant income benefit. Not to disparage the skilled trades at all, but the US economy seems to continue moving away from the manufacturing/construction industries and towards the service/financial/information sectors, where academic degrees are virtually a must.

But, as Thales (or Socrates, or Pythagoras) said, the essence of wisdom is to know thyself. It sounds like you have a clear-headed understanding of where your talents and interests lie, and you should definitely follow them. By all means, align your goals with your strengths, and work towards them. And best of luck.

 

[alphatronics]

Economics- I cant afford it and I'd be paying student loans off for the rest of my life.

Colleges offer need-based and merit-based grants:

Need-based: You are able to pay some amount, and that is all they'll ask of you. The determination of how much you can afford is typically done through the "FAFSA".
Merit-based: You've shown that you can do well in high school, and if you continue doing well in college (ie keeping above a certain gpa), then you'll be covered.

Grants can vary widely from school to school. Public/State universities give huge discounts to students that are in-state. Private universities typically have endowments set aside for funding the education of students who can't afford it themselves.

Psychology- The way a modern classroom is set up makes it difficult for me to learn. I learn by doing rather than having someone talk at me.

Different schools offer different programs, some of them can be very hands-on, depending on what you're interested in.

Sociology- The various other aspects of colleges disinterests me, the elitism, fraternaties, the selectivity.

If you hang out with elitists in college, then that's what you'll experience. The variation between people in college is just as wide as you've (hopefully) experienced in high school.

This makes me think you've been watching too many college movies.

Neurology- I hated school with an absolute passion and I blame it for trying to pour water on my creativity, why would I want to go BACK for four more years?

High school is very different from college. Unlike high school, college students are usually there because they want to be there. If someone doesn't feel like showing up for class, nobody is going to babysit them, they're free to make their own decisions. In addition to this, students are studying things that interest them, rather than what they've been handed by the local school board. If you find out in the first ~1.5 years or so that you don't care for some subject, you're free to switch. (Typically mid-sophomore year is the point of no return for most majors, as there are certain class requirements that have to be completed).

Oh, and the best thing about college: When picking your classes, you can select them to fit your preferred schedule. If you are a morning person, you can have all your classes be at 9-11 every day. If you're a night owl, you can have nothing until 2pm. Of course, you're not given unlimited flexibility, but you're still able to make some choices in this area. Unlike high school, you are no longer expected to show up 8-3 (or whatever) Monday through Friday.

 

[rppearso]

If you are thinking about welding you can do pipe welding and work up here in alaska with all the pipeline work that is going on, its big money if your the cream of the crop. Also you can go back to school later on for your metalergy degree (its college but you can do it way later on when you have the money to enjoy your time learning), I also believe they are creating a new PE for metalergical engineers and you will be able to emphisize on welding. Lots of things you can do with welding. My step son is saving money to go to school to be an underwater welder (as he already has diving certificates) so thats another avenue

 

[rppearso]

Hanging out with elitists is not nessisarily that bad (it can be but not always) I joined a fraternity and it made college much more tolerable even though it was still hard to get laid, the leather couches, big screen TV foutian soda machine, well maintained tournament pool table and rooms with offices made life a little easier. Plus I still hang out with some guys from the frat to this day that got jobs in the same town as me (went to school in colorado and live in alaska so it was pure coincidence that we both work in anchorage).

 

[billwald]

Unless you plan to get at least a master's you would be better off financially to get a good union trade job.

 

[united4Peace]

I just had a rather...protracted discussion about college with my grandparents. Both are old school in practice and thought, and both wanted me to go to college.

I have declined to pursue a college education. I have various reasons for making such a choice, having to do with economics, psychology, sociology and the neurological make-up of the brain (Namely my own).

Ive discussed this choice with several dozen people in my life and of them, only one has been supportive of my decision. Several of them were next to angry.

Why is modern America so obsessed with college and going to college?

Nothing old school about it...

One needs either Trades, College or University...
Many Trades one can take at the local Colleges...

Very important to get by...

If my husband were to hire someone he wouldnt hire them unless they had their gr 12 or they were going to College as a mature student...
They would need to be in the Trade...
For what he does they need 3 years eventually...
Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, Autotechnicians, Welders, etc one cannot get hired out of highschool any more for a full time job (maybe for a summer job...but not a full time job).

 

[SallyNow]

Unless you plan to get at least a master's you would be better off financially to get a good union trade job.

No, not really. It really depends on the field someone plans to go into. And there are things to think about besides gross salary... benefits, living conditions, etc, etc.

Also, many trades now require diploma programs. And most every career, no matter what it is, requires on-the-job training, and often also job-specific training sessions or classes.

And I do have to repeat (again) that there is nothing old-school about wanting to go to college or university, and it's not elitist. It's quite new for colleges to be open to anyone who academically qualifies. But, you know, that requires history classes to know (KIDDING!)

It can be useful depending on your career, but it doesn't sound like welding needs a four-year degree. It's your choice and some people are better off without college, but keep it in mind for later; a lot of colleges offer degrees that you get mostly online, so you can tailor the information to your attention span. The trade school and on-the-job training may be best, but you can flex college to meet your needs cheaply if you feel you need to in the future.

Welding often requires a six-month diploma, as to many other trades. Because of improved technology and safety, more training is needed before someone can work in many trades disiplines.

Economics- I cant afford it and I'd be paying student loans off for the rest of my life.

Depending on where you live, you can get away with working part-time and going to school, and never have to get a student loan. This takes research, though.

Psychology- The way a modern classroom is set up makes it difficult for me to learn. I learn by doing rather than having someone talk at me.

There are lots of trades programs that are between 3-6 months and includes lots of hands-on training. However, even something like welding requires some time in classrooms.

Also, a university classroom is often set up so that students can debate, and the learning is a group process, less of a "sit and listen" and more of a "sit and discuss". It depends on the area of study, though, of course.

Sociology- The various other aspects of colleges disinterests me, the elitism, fraternaties, the selectivity.

That's not a realistic portrait of most universities or colleges.

Neurology- I hated school with an absolute passion and I blame it for trying to pour water on my creativity, why would I want to go BACK for four more years?

Um... not sure if neurology is the right word here... but I digress... if you want to be "creative", and be successful in a "creative" disipline, you may need to take courses casually to really be successful. And university courses dealing with creativity are meant to work with students to bring out their creative side... not to stifle it. (unless you are one of those think that learning colour theory is pouring water on creativity. I doubt you do, but some people, sadly, just don't get it)

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that there is nothing wrong with delaying or never going to university or college. But realize that for most careers, you will need upgrading courses and seminars, training sessions, and the like. Even many trades today require diplomas due to the complexity.

Anyway, I'm sure with a little research and study you'll find a career that's right for you, that doesn't require too much time in a classroom, and that allows you to be creative.

 

[trunks2k]

Why is modern America so obsessed with college and going to college?

Because frankly, a bachelors degree is a prerequisite in most places to get a good job. Of course, there are exceptions here and there, but not having a college degree severly limits your options and chances at getting a job that will comfortably sustain you. In many places, if there is no college degree in your resume, you won't even be considered.

But it also depends on exactly what you are interested in doing. If you wish to go into some sort of trade job, like carpentry then a college degree isn't going to help out.

I have two friends that are hitting rough times due to their loack of a degree. One dropped out freshman year, she spent the last four years going from one crap job to the next. Not that she isn't smart or bright, she is. But she's realized that without a degree, she can't move foreward. She's now going to school again. My other friend changed her major halfway through college and is struggling to find a job that can pay the bills while she goes to school. It's not so much of a scheduling issue as it is her lack of a degree. She has a lot of experience in her particular field, and consistently performs better than the people at her one job that relates to what she wants to do. But without that degree, she is stuck as part time getting paid almost nothing.

My personal concern would be that you want to do something in which a degree is very helpful/necessary, and you put it off for a while (for whatever reason) but continue to put it off and never get back to it.

 

[trunks2k]

NOTE: Do not take this as me trying to convince you do go to school. I'm just trying to offer a bit of perspective.

Economics- I cant afford it and I'd be paying student loans off for the rest of my life.

I think this is a common misconception. College can be a pain to pay for, even if you have to have a lot of loans. But you have to look at the cost vs. benefit. I'm over $30,000 in debt from college, but the benefits I gained from having my degree far outweigh whatever I owe. And the job I have now will also pay for continuing education. Again, my friend that dropped out school mostly because she didn't want to be in debt. She eventually figured out that being in debt is not an inherently bad thing.

Psychology- The way a modern classroom is set up makes it difficult for me to learn. I learn by doing rather than having someone talk at me.

Not all schools are the same. There are plenty of Colleges and Universities that have different ways of teaching (smaller classrooms, etc) you just have to find the right one.

Sociology- The various other aspects of colleges disinterests me, the elitism, fraternaties, the selectivity.

I'm not sure about what the other aspects are that you don't like, but I think you have somewhat of a warped view of what college life is like. At the school I went to, I didn't encounter any elitism, in fact I think we were all very self-depricating. Frats at my old school were barely noticable. Selectivity depends on the school, and normally that only applies to kids coming out of high school; the school is more concerned with having a student that is going to stay with the school, a 19 year old is going to be more iffy than a 25 year old.

Neurology- I hated school with an absolute passion and I blame it for trying to pour water on my creativity, why would I want to go BACK for four more years?

I think you'll find a VAST difference between what learning is like in college vs. what learning is like in high school. This of course depends on what school you go to; some may be a worse experience, some may be better. From what I have read, you would fit in well at a small liberal arts college where you can focus more on writing and art.

 

[MikeMcK]

I just had a rather...protracted discussion about college with my grandparents. Both are old school in practice and thought, and both wanted me to go to college.

I have declined to pursue a college education. I have various reasons for making such a choice, having to do with economics, psychology, sociology and the neurological make-up of the brain (Namely my own).

Ive discussed this choice with several dozen people in my life and of them, only one has been supportive of my decision. Several of them were next to angry.

Why is modern America so obsessed with college and going to college?

There's no law that says you have to go to college. Many people have done fine without it.

But why would you not want to give yourself all of the tools you can to succeed?

That's like a painter trying to paint with only three colors.

 

[MoodyBlue]

I just had a rather...protracted discussion about college with my grandparents. Both are old school in practice and thought, and both wanted me to go to college.

I have declined to pursue a college education. I have various reasons for making such a choice, having to do with economics, psychology, sociology and the neurological make-up of the brain (Namely my own).

Ive discussed this choice with several dozen people in my life and of them, only one has been supportive of my decision. Several of them were next to angry.

Why is modern America so obsessed with college and going to college?

Apparently most of the folks responding to your question seem to be obsessed with college as well. Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do. Success in life doesn't depend upon a college degree, determination and hard work will do well for you in whatever vocation you choose.

 

[Archivist]

You do not need to have a college degree to do well in life. It is, however, required in certain fields. In most states, for example, you cannot be admitted to practice law without a degree from an accrediated law school and all accrediated US law schools require an undergraduate degree. However, it sounds as if you have already looked into this and determined that you do not need a degree.

If you chose not to attend college, I would advise you to look into the possibility of taking courses at your local community college (although you wouldn't need to do this right away). The cost is usually far less than a four-year college so the economic factor that you cited would be of less concern. That might help ease some of the concerns expressed by your family and, while it isn't always required, the education certainly wouldn't hurt.

Good luck!

 

[platzapS]

study up on immigrant socialization and integration patterns and the history of the GI Bill. then read Locke and Humes and do a thorough review of the philosophy and praxis of the Founding Fathers. that'll be a good place to start.

Translation: You will never know.

 

[SallyNow]

Apparently most of the folks responding to your question seem to be obsessed with college as well. Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do. Success in life doesn't depend upon a college degree, determination and hard work will do well for you in whatever vocation you choose.

No, it won't. It won't get you into medicine, law, education, accounting, social work, marketing, engineering...

Being realistic is not being obsessed with college. It's being, well, realistic. One does not need a Bachelor's degree or have formalized academic training to do well in life, but the fact remains that many trades now require 2-24 month certificates/diplomas. Even truck driving now requires special licences and training.

One can easily do in life without college or university, but most people will need to take training, safety, upgrading, and/or theory courses for successful careers.

 

[Adela]

Apparently most of the folks responding to your question seem to be obsessed with college as well. Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do. Success in life doesn't depend upon a college degree, determination and hard work will do well for you in whatever vocation you choose.

Actually, people who work hard and have determination don't always do well in life. Sometimes they end up working 40+ hours a week at a low paying. mind numbing job because they don't have the skills or education to move further up in a job field.