• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Col.2{16} uhhh...cording to scripture

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,392
✟170,432.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian

1d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
You can't have Christ saying on the one hand that the law will never lose authority (Luke 16:17) and on the other hand ending or abolishing it.

The law,can also mean the OT.No one wants the ot gone,but in the Ot,was a great word..

The just shall live by faith.

Speaking of Luke 16..

16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.

Did Jesus fulfill the law,on the cross?
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
You can't have Christ saying on the one hand that the law will never lose authority (Luke 16:17) and on the other hand ending or abolishing it.

Why didn't paul,want the law taught to the church,tim was in charge of?
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,392
✟170,432.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian

In the sense of revealing its ultimate goal or purpose, certainly. Does that negate the Law? Hardly. It establishes it. Do we make the law void by our faith?
 
Upvote 0

New_Wineskin

Contributor
Jun 26, 2004
11,145
652
Elizabethtown , PA , usa
✟13,854.00
Faith
Non-Denom

That's all ?
Ok . How about my question about how they apply to me ?
 
Upvote 0

Timothew

Conditionalist
Aug 24, 2009
9,659
844
✟36,554.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
1d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose

τέλος

From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost.

These things relate to finishing. Once I reach the city at the end of the highway, do I stay on the highway or do I enter the city?

The greek is better than the english, thanks for pointing that out and making my point even clearer. So I'll say it again, Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

So the righteousness can't come from the law, that is ended. It has to come from Christ.

Let's go everyday without a sabbath thread. Let's stop telling people that they need to keep the sabbath. Could we go a week without a sabbath thread?
 
Upvote 0

Timothew

Conditionalist
Aug 24, 2009
9,659
844
✟36,554.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It is the same word used in 1 Peter 1:9. Here the NIV translates 'telos' as 'goal.'

Peter is writing about the day Jesus Christ returns. We have not seen Him, but we have faith that He is. When He returns, we will see Him. We won't need faith then, We will see Him face to face. Who hopes to obtain what he already has? So Christ is the END of the law now, and will the END of faith then, when He returns.
 
Upvote 0

New_Wineskin

Contributor
Jun 26, 2004
11,145
652
Elizabethtown , PA , usa
✟13,854.00
Faith
Non-Denom

You are mixing up faith and hope . You still believe ( have faith in ) Him when you see Him . Hope disapears because you already have your goal . Faith continues .
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
In the sense of revealing its ultimate goal or purpose, certainly. Does that negate the Law? Hardly. It establishes it. Do we make the law void by our faith?

Hit me. I am not sure what you are talking about.

ok,hit you.

ok,lets look at the context of Rom 3;31.Establish the law.

It came after 3 chapters,of judging all the sinners.In chapter one,we see all the worst.

Ok,then In 1 timothy 1,we see the same list..killers,thieves etc.

Yet,Paul said he did not want the law taught to tim's church.

He said the law is not for the just,in 1 tim 1;9.

Ok,so yes,the law stands for the unsaved,to lead to christ,then as Paul said,we are not under law,we died to it.

So as jb phillips said,we keep the law,in it's proper place.

It is a tutor,a pedagoge,as per gal 3,'but now that faith has come,we are no longer under a disciplinarian."

Gal 3;25 correlates with Rom 10;4,now that faith has come,we are no longer under law,and Christ is the end of the law.FOR THAEM THAT BELIEVE.

Faith is the keyword in 10;4 and gal 3;25.

Because...drum..roll.....


gal 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”


there ya go,a right hook,followed by an upercut.
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican

Tally ho!
I agree.
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,392
✟170,432.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian

Doesn't Communion point to 'the goal?' Why keep doing it if it has been fulfilled?
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,392
✟170,432.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
In communion we proclaim the Lord's death until He returns. He hasn't yet returned, so we keep doing it. We have faith that He will return.

If Passover is about the death of Jesus, how does this differ from communion? For believers, Passover is comemmoritive as well.
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
If Passover is about the death of Jesus, how does this differ from communion? For believers, Passover is comemmoritive as well.

When Jews today,celebrate the passover,do they acknowledge Jesus?
 
Upvote 0

Timothew

Conditionalist
Aug 24, 2009
9,659
844
✟36,554.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If Passover is about the death of Jesus, how does this differ from communion? For believers, Passover is comemmoritive as well.

How about this?

Passover was the prophecy,
Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecy,
and Communion is the rememberance of His Sacrifice.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,392
✟170,432.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
Using this definition of telos,

How do you translate Luke 1:33?

His kingdom will be without purpose?

You have to look at the context. If the context excludes the definition then it is not valid.

If the context allows more than one definition then you have to broaden the context. I am just stating the Romans 10:4 could be read either way, requiring a broader interpretive scheme. This is one problem with prooftexting.
 
Upvote 0