coC and Christmas

[AkyrXX]

Okay, so I have been a practacing Christian at the church of Christ for about 10 months now, and one thing that I had heard is that they do not reconize Christmas as Christ's birthday, and do not hold Christmas Eve services and such. Now I know that Christmas really isn't his birthday, but since no one knows when it really is, we just celebrate it on December 25th. However, if what I have heard is true, quite frankely it bothers me that we don't celebrate his birth on Christmas. Does any long time member of the church have any info on this?

 

[crawfish]

I think they have a reasonable view here. Christ was definitely not born on December 25 - it is a carryover celebration date from a pagan holiday.

However, the publicity Christmas provides is substantial, and it is probably harmful to ignore it completely. It is a great opportunity for outreach and service. Some CofC's do have Christmas eve services and special recognition for the holiday, and even many that don't usually do some type of charitable work during the period.

 

[DerSchweik]

I'd have to agree with crawfish. I've been in several different congregations with different views on it. His birth wasn't in the winter, as crawfish noted. That we choose to celebrate His birth when we do is purely arbitrary and largely because of hundreds of years of accumulated tradition.

Personally, I love the season - it's a time for giving, remembering His birth, the Christmas story, and a great opportunity for outreach. Some tend to deemphasize it I suppose to make various points, winter birth for example. Some do so believing His death (and resurrection) are far more important events than His birth. Thing is, both events are recorded for us in the Word and therefore worthy of recognizing.

So whether some don't give it much schrift and others do is, imo, more a matter of personal (or congregational) preference. There is certainly no official "cofC doctrine" governing whether or not we do. His birth is worth of celebrating as I see it - and frankly we only do that once a year whereas we celebrate His death and resurrection every week, so I see no issues therein.

 

[figuringthingsout]

I have NEVER heard of any COC or Christian church not celebrating Christ's birthday on Christmas. That is the strangest thing. He is the reason for the season. Who cares if that was "the day" he was born. Do those churches celebrate Easter as when Christ arose from the dead?? Maybe we should inform them, that that was not the "actual" day Christ arose.

 

[SoulFly51]

Okay, so I have been a practacing Christian at the church of Christ for about 10 months now, and one thing that I had heard is that they do not reconize Christmas as Christ's birthday, and do not hold Christmas Eve services and such. Now I know that Christmas really isn't his birthday, but since no one knows when it really is, we just celebrate it on December 25th. However, if what I have heard is true, quite frankely it bothers me that we don't celebrate his birth on Christmas. Does any long time member of the church have any info on this?

My home congregation celebrates Christmas, decorations and all, and has a Christmas Eve service every year.

Each CoC is independent, and your church doesn't represent everyone. Many celebrate Christmas as a time to remember the birth of Jesus. Sounds good to me.

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

Mine was one that pretty much banned Christmas.

 

[figuringthingsout]

Banned Christrmas? THey don't celebrate the birth of Christ? Isn't CHrist whatthe churhc is centered upon.......Hench Church of Christ?

I have just never heard of that before, and I went to Bible college.

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

Here's what their figuring was.

We don't know exactly when Christ was born. And if Christ had wanted us to celebrate his birthday, he would have mandated it. Since he didn't, it must be wrong.

Not that I agree with them.

 

[- DRA -]

Here's what their figuring was.

We don't know exactly when Christ was born. And if Christ had wanted us to celebrate his birthday, he would have mandated it. Since he didn't, it must be wrong.

Not that I agree with them.

I suspect Colossians 3:17 also is a factor. In essence, the passage teaches the necessity (not the option) of having authority from the Lord for what we say and do (or practice). Therefore, if God wanted us to observe the birthday of His Son and celebrate it as a religious holiday or observance, He would have directed us to do so.

We do remember Jesus in ways God authorized. Baptism is God's way of uniting us with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection which occurred some 2,000 years ago (Romans 6:3-11). And, the Lord's Supper reminds us of the suffering Jesus endured, the blood He shed to cover our sins, and His promise to return (Matthew 26:26-28, 1 Corinthians 11:20-34). We have authority from the Lord to observe these things.

But, where is the authority for Christmas?

 

[figuringthingsout]

I kind of had to chuckle when I read Colssians 3:17 "And whatever you do, whether in mind or in deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." Well DUH, that is why I celebrate CHristmas! CHristmas is worshiping Christ, giving thanks to God through Him!!!

I can just imagine God saying, "Listen here, I am sending my Son to save the whole world -everyone in it, all of you sinners. But make sure you don't celebrate this birth, because that would not be giving thanks to me through him!"

I don't understand how anyone would think that celebrating the brith of Jesus, the one who saved us all -is not giving thanks to God through Jesus.

I am guessing that you think Thanksgiving day is a satan day. Honestly, show me where it says we should not celebrate Christ's birth in the Bible. I guess the wise men bringing him gifts and worshiping him was not a celebration. Actually I would like to know if these people "celebrate" any religious holidays, and where the Bible says that holdiay should be celebrated. Becaue I don't even think the word "holiday" is in the Bible.

It seems VERY limiting to only remember Jesus 1) in baptism, 2) Lord's Supper, and 3) waiting for him to return.

 

[- DRA -]

I kind of had to chuckle when I read Colssians 3:17 "And whatever you do, whether in mind or in deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." Well DUH, that is why I celebrate CHristmas! CHristmas is worshiping Christ, giving thanks to God through Him!!!

I can just imagine God saying, "Listen here, I am sending my Son to save the whole world -everyone in it, all of you sinners. But make sure you don't celebrate this birth, because that would not be giving thanks to me through him!"

I don't understand how anyone would think that celebrating the brith of Jesus, the one who saved us all -is not giving thanks to God through Jesus.

I am guessing that you think Thanksgiving day is a satan day. Honestly, show me where it says we should not celebrate Christ's birth in the Bible. I guess the wise men bringing him gifts and worshiping him was not a celebration. Actually I would like to know if these people "celebrate" any religious holidays, and where the Bible says that holdiay should be celebrated. Becaue I don't even think the word "holiday" is in the Bible.

It seems VERY limiting to only remember Jesus 1) in baptism, 2) Lord's Supper, and 3) waiting for him to return.

"In the name of the Lord Jesus" means to act by His authority. Stated another way, we give God glory when we do what His Son authorized. I sincerely don't see anything in this passage (Col. 3:17) that prompts me to chuckle or say, Duh!" Either way -- whether we do what the Lord says -- or don't do what the Lord says -- I tend to think it is serious business.

And, here's a scenario for you. Judgment per 2 Corinthians 5:10. The plea arises, "Lord, we are so glad you came to save the world from sin. Therefore, even though Your word doesn't authorize it, and the first-century Christians certainly didn't observe such a day, and even though they honored and thanked you by following Your apostles' teaching, we have continued to follow the man-made tradition that December 25th is your birthday. We did it to honor you. We assumed, presumed, and truly wish this has pleased you." ... "What's that, Lord? Yes, we realize that 'Christmas' is a shortened version of 'Christ Mass,' which originated from Catholicism." ... "No, Lord, we haven't really given much thought to 1 Timothy 4:1-3." ... "Sorry, Lord, we didn't realize we have been caught up in the man-made teachings and traditions of those who departed from the faith."

Baptism and the Lord's Supper were cited as scriptural examples of ways God authorized us to remember His Son, not the only ways God authorized us to remember His Son. Take Colossians 3:17, the passage you posted. If we develop and maintain the mindset that "whatever we do ... do it all in the name of the Lord," it would mean we remember the Lord on a daily basis, right? I'm sure with a little thought, numerous more scriptural ways of remembering the Lord could be discussed.

Is God's way/will "limited" in some respects? I strongly suspect it is per Matthew 7:13-14.

 

[figuringthingsout]

You know, the early church didn't meet in buildings either. No where in the bible does it say we should meet in buidlings on Sunday Mornings. If you go to church services on a Sunday morning, in a church bulding, you too are following tradition. So is that tradition less worse than celabrating the most important day in history.

Yes I know 1 Timothy 4:1-3. It does not say celebrating my Savior's birth is abandoning my faith! The scriptures you are using do not support your you arguement. They do not relate. Your are putting scriputures into situations that you see fit. "deceiving spririts and things taught by demons" were present at that time too. If you think you have interrpretted these verses you are throwing out correctly (applying then in ways not even mentioned in scripture), I'd say you may be one of those deceiving spirits.

"Sorry, Lord, we didn't realize we have been caught up in the man-made teachings and traditions of those who departed from the faith." Do you celebrate anyone's birthday? If someone gives me a gift on my birthday, that is honoring me. There is no way you can cinvince me that because I celebrate the most important breithday eer in history, that means I am departing from my faith. So I will continue to honor God, Christ Jesus, My lord and Savior by celebrating the most important day in history.

P.S. If you know His "real" birthday, I will start singing to him on that day instead of December 25th. Oh wait is singing to God a tradition? I am not sure the Bible says we should sing to him. I will only pray to Him, sorry.

 

[- DRA -]

You know, the early church didn't meet in buildings either. No where in the bible does it say we should meet in buidlings on Sunday Mornings. If you go to church services on a Sunday morning, in a church bulding, you too are following tradition. So is that tradition less worse than celabrating the most important day in history.

Acts 20:7-8

Assembling is authorized per Hebrew 10:25. Therefore, of necessity, the church has to have a place to assemble. It may be outdoors ... but doesn't have to be. Obviously, in Acts 20, the disciples met in some kind of building, right?

Yes I know 1 Timothy 4:1-3. It does not say celebrating my Savior's birth is abandoning my faith! The scriptures you are using do not support your you arguement. They do not relate. Your are putting scriputures into situations that you see fit. "deceiving spririts and things taught by demons" were present at that time too. If you think you have interrpretted these verses you are throwing out correctly (applying then in ways not even mentioned in scripture), I'd say you may be one of those deceiving spirits.

1 Timothy 4 just didn't foretell that some would fall away in unfaithfulness, but also gave a few characteristics that described their departure. They were fulfilled by the arise of Catholicism ... which also gave rise to Christ Mass. That was my point.

If you think I am deceiving you and leading you astray, then just go ahead and continue to do what you are doing. However, passages like Colossians 3:17 and 1 Timothy 4:1-3 are still there. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as just my interpretation. But, that's your choice.

"Sorry, Lord, we didn't realize we have been caught up in the man-made teachings and traditions of those who departed from the faith." Do you celebrate anyone's birthday? If someone gives me a gift on my birthday, that is honoring me. There is no way you can cinvince me that because I celebrate the most important breithday eer in history, that means I am departing from my faith. So I will continue to honor God, Christ Jesus, My lord and Savior by celebrating the most important day in history.

I humbly suggest that you assure "your faith" is based on "the faith" per Romans 10:17.

P.S. If you know His "real" birthday, I will start singing to him on that day instead of December 25th. Oh wait is singing to God a tradition? I am not sure the Bible says we should sing to him. I will only pray to Him, sorry.

Singing is acceptable (Acts 16:25, Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16, James 5:13).

 

[SoulFly51]

Love God, and do as you please.

Romans 14:5-6a
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.
(NIV)

Celebrating Christmas or not isn't worth arguing over.

 

[DerSchweik]

Love God, and do as you please.

Romans 14:5-6a
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.
(NIV)

Celebrating Christmas or not isn't worth arguing over.

Touche.

 

[- DRA -]

Love God, and do as you please.

Romans 14:5-6a
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.
(NIV)

Celebrating Christmas or not isn't worth arguing over.

Hmmm ... perhaps there's a little more to consider ...

Galatians 4:10-11
You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain. (NASV)

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

Colossians 2:16 (New International Version)


16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[- DRA -]

Colossians 2:16 (New International Version)


16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Whether Romans 14, Galatians 4, or Colossians 2, each passage is in a particular context. Christmas falls into none of those contexts. It was a man-made observance that came along later. Therefore, we have to decide which of the passages, if any, apply to the teachings of men.

 

[figuringthingsout]

DRA, I like the way you can take any passage from anywhere in the Bible and appl it to NOT celebrating Christ's brith, but when someone else takes a verse and applies it, they are out of context. Examples ---Colossians 3:17, Matthew 7:13-14, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, and basically al lthe other you used. None of these are in a context of celebrating something not "mandated" by God. Christ's brith is not a made-made-up day!

"Assembling is authorized per Hebrew 10:25. Therefore, of necessity, the church has to have a place to assemble. It may be outdoors ... but doesn't have to be. Obviously, in Acts 20, the disciples met in some kind of building, right?" -Yes, but God didn't mandate that we meet in a building on Sunday mornings, following a service, so you are following a man made tradition if you do this.

Christ's birth is not a "made-made" teaching. Jesus was born, right? There was a gathering, and gift giving right? God sent Him to save us, right? I don't know what day of the year it was, so if you do please elighten the rest us of us. Obviously, in Matthew !:18 and following, Jesus was born, right? No where in the Bible does it say that we shouldn't honor God except in the ways he directly tells us to, and no other ways. Celebrating Christmas is giving thanks, glory, honor, and worship to God for sending Jesus to save us. Does YOUR Bible say we should not give thanks to God, or does it say we can only do that in the exact ways God directly tells us to? There are many things God directly tells us not to do, but he does not say to not celebrate and give thanks to Him for the gifts given to us. My Bible does say to give thanks to God, I intend to every year (all year long) for sending Jesus to us.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

Whether Romans 14, Galatians 4, or Colossians 2, each passage is in a particular context. Christmas falls into none of those contexts. It was a man-made observance that came along later. Therefore, we have to decide which of the passages, if any, apply to the teachings of men.

DRA, I like the way you can take any passage from anywhere in the Bible and appl it to NOT celebrating Christ's brith, but when someone else takes a verse and applies it, they are out of context. Examples ---Colossians 3:17, Matthew 7:13-14, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, and basically al lthe other you used. None of these are in a context of celebrating something not "mandated" by God. Christ's brith is not a made-made-up day!

Let's note a point: Wes posted the Scripture from Romans 14, I posted the passage from Galatians 4, and you posted the one from Colossians 2. Note carefully my quote above in orange font. Did I say that just just Romans 14 and Colossians 2 needed to be considered in its context, or did I also include the passage I posted?

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about Colossians 3:17. If you think it means that we need authority from the Lord for everything we say and do except the day the Catholic Church set aside to observe Jesus' birth, then I probably am not going to be able to accomplish much by stating that's not what the passage says.

As for Matthew 7:13-14 and 1 Timothy 4:1-3, they were used to show that God's way is limited, and that the Bible foretold of Catholicism and a few of its practices. I believe it is common knowledge that Christmas (i.e., Christ Mass) originated from Catholicism, which is described in 1 Timothy 4 as those that departed from the truth. Thus, there's the connection I made between 1 Timothy 4 and the man-made practices of Catholicism.

As for the statement: "Christ's brith [sic] is not a made-made-up day," this statement does not accurately convey my point. My point wasn't that Christ didn't have a birthday. My point is that the New Testament doesn't authorize us to celebrate it. Therefore, lacking authority from the Lord, in my way of thinking, the only option left is that it originated from man. And, just in case you are interested, my thinking is based upon Jesus' statement in Matthew 21:25a, in which He identifies the two sources of religious authority.

"Assembling is authorized per Hebrew 10:25. Therefore, of necessity, the church has to have a place to assemble. It may be outdoors ... but doesn't have to be. Obviously, in Acts 20, the disciples met in some kind of building, right?" -Yes, but God didn't mandate that we meet in a building on Sunday mornings, following a service, so you are following a man made tradition if you do this .

Not sure I follow you. The assembling of the church is authorized, and we have an approved example of Christians assembling in a building ... but I'm missing the connection with the man-made tradition.

Christ's birth is not a "made-made" teaching. Jesus was born, right? There was a gathering, and gift giving right? God sent Him to save us, right? I don't know what day of the year it was, so if you do please elighten the rest us of us. Obviously, in Matthew !:18 and following, Jesus was born, right? No where in the Bible does it say that we shouldn't honor God except in the ways he directly tells us to, and no other ways. Celebrating Christmas is giving thanks, glory, honor, and worship to God for sending Jesus to save us. Does YOUR Bible say we should not give thanks to God, or does it say we can only do that in the exact ways God directly tells us to? There are many things God directly tells us not to do, but he does not say to not celebrate and give thanks to Him for the gifts given to us. My Bible does say to give thanks to God, I intend to every year (all year long) for sending Jesus to us.

I'll share with you what I know. Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday - the first day of the week. And, Christians are authorized to assemble on Sunday.

My Bible reads the same (or very similar) to the Bible you are using. The wording isn't the problem. We just have to assure our understanding is based on sound principles of Bible interpretation. Simply stated, I use a two-step approach:
1.) Nehemiah 8:8. Read/study, develop an understanding, and give the sense.
2.) Matthew 4:5-7 An understanding derived from one passage of Scripture must harmonize with other passages. Pay close attention to this text. The devil quotes Psalm 91:11-12, draws an understanding from this text, and tempts Jesus to jump from the top of the temple. Jesus counters with Deuteronomy 6:16, which doesn't say a word about jumping from the top of the temple. Rather, in its context, it deals with tempting God by worshipping idols. However, it's the principle that Jesus is using. Deliberately jumping is like deliberately turning away from God and turning to idols - and Jesus won't do it. From this example, I learn that the correct understanding of Scriptures is sometimes determined by the application of biblical principles. In short, everything isn't expressly forbidden. Take the "strange fire" Nadab and Abihu used in Leviticus 10:1-2. God had NOT said, "Don't use this fire!" Rather, He told them where to obtain the fire, and they got it from a different source. According to Romans 15:4, we should "learn" from such examples. In short, we need to apply the principle taught there. Note the emphasis on the word "we." I'm including myself. I'm certainly not above making mistakes or misunderstanding the meanings of Scriptures or applying biblical principles. None of us are. That's why we appeal to Scripture to show the basis of what we believe. I believe it is of necessity that we be able to do so to please God per 1 Peter 4:11a.

As for giving God thanks, honor, glory, and all the things He deserves, my understanding of the Scriptures is that I should do so as His word directs.