Co-Redeemer?

[Uphill Battle]

1 John 3


Every day I'm blown away how even the most undisputable basic things are being denied in a over reaction to a Catholic actually making a point.

You deny Theosis? My goodness Benny Hinn does't even deny that.

Where have I said I claim we all become God oursleves? You know that is slander. It's okay if you conceded and admit you just made a mistake.

Of course we share God's glory in heaven-- as Peter says, we are partakers in the divine nature of God.

I don't know how you take that, but I take it as God shares his own divine life of grace with us and we becoame the closet to God with out ever being God. (1 John 3)

This is the reason he created us, the reason he saved us.

He made us for himself, He made us for glory.

My goodness, I have never heard any Christian deny this until now. Wow, is all I can say.

you skirted what I asked.

Answer the question. Will you be Omicient, Omnipotent, and Omnipotent.

 

[Benedicta00]

you skirted what I asked.

Answer the question. Will you be Omicient, Omnipotent, and Omnipotent.

How have I skirted the question?

What you are asking is stupid, no offense.

Of course not. We won't be Omicient, Omnipotent, and Omnipotent.

So now God sharing glory with us makes us a deity?

Oh brother... can this get any better?

Scripture is so not on your side Uphill. Look:

2 Thessalonians 2:14
14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You have backed yourself into a corner, best you just admit you made a mistake. .

 

[Uphill Battle]

How have I skirted the question?

What you are asking is stupid, no offense.

Of course not. We won't be Omicient, Omnipotent, and Omnipotent.

So now God sharing glory with us makes us a deity?

Oh brother... can this get any better?

Scripture is so not on your side Uphill. Look:

2 Thessalonians 2:14
14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You have backed yourself into a corner, best you just admit you made a mistake. .

I didn't state that we won't share in his Glory! (or if I did, that wasn't what I meant.)

Just that there is the Glory of God... his perfect, omnipresent etc...

That Glory is God's alone. whatever Glory we are given to share from, will obvioulsy come from God... however, there is Glory that we will not have.

Your statments make it look like we will share in all the Glorious attributes of God, which is frankly disturbing.

 

[Benedicta00]

I didn't state that we won't share in his Glory! (or if I did, that wasn't what I meant.)

Just that there is the Glory of God... his perfect, omnipresent etc...

That Glory is God's alone. whatever Glory we are given to share from, will obvioulsy come from God... however, there is Glory that we will not have.

Your statments make it look like we will share in all the Glorious attributes of God, which is frankly disturbing.

NO, it's not what I said and I was rather clear. You can go back and read the post.

You just made a mistake. I hope you can see now how you all are just paranoid of having to agree with a Catholic on anything. .

 

[Uphill Battle]

NO, it's not what I said and I was rather clear. You can go back and read the post.

You just made a mistake. I hope you can see now how you all are just paranoid of having to agree with a Catholic on anything. .

please.

I agree with Catholics on more than I disagree.

Just that we usually don't talk about things we agree on.

 

[IamAdopted]

Lets look at the scripture you put out in its fullness so we can get what Paul is saying here..

1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
Now what did Jesus say was the truth? Gods word..
11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what this whole passage of scripture is about.. To stand on Gods word.. The truth..Jesus said the words that I speak are Spirit and they are truth.. He spoke also His words through His 12 Apostles...

 

[lionroar0]

Being partakers and sharers of His glory is not the same as being part of the glory of the Godhead.


Peace

 

[sunlover1]

Being partakers and sharers of His glory is not the same as being part of the glory of the Godhead.
Peace

That's what I was talking about
Lionsroar.
God redeemed us,
nothing we did or can do to help.
So why would we give anyone
glory for that which God did.

But then again, you can't understand
me and I can't understand you.
(took me a while but I finally
realised this )


love,
sunlover

 

[Rick Otto]

I AGREE WITH YOU.
Will will partake (have a slice)in God's glory.

BUT, I totaly sympathize with Uphill's caution , considering all the semideification of Mary from the Roman camp.

I often agree with Catholics.
I was just agreeing with a Catholic psychologist today abouit how phobia ridden the RCC is.

I agreed with a college English teacher that the Catholic Church is rich in traditions that many find great comfoprt in. She didn't give a hoot about theology of any kind, & had no idea what any of the doctrines were about, it was the satisfying sense of community and being a part of something larger and more ancient than herself that gave her fulfillment.
Not that that is exclusive to any congregation, but that agreement can take many forms & have variable value.

 

[Tyndale]

How is it that Mary can hold this title? She had nothing to do with redeeming man from sin?

It's another Papal mystery.

Edited before mod-hat appears

 

[Uphill Battle]

yikes. IBTL.

 

[Iollain]

Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,


Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;



.....co-redeemers and co-redeemsteresses, looks like Jesus is the Redeemer by Himself.........oh well it was fun whilst it lasted.

 

[Rick Otto]

we're startin' to make nice here a little, and as much as you make me snicker, they're havin' a tough enough time puttin' up with us... well everybody else anyway.
I've been hijacked & ransacked for any serious postin' time lately.

I'm realy impressed with the persistance and articulation from these ladies on both sides, man. Let's not be "Those Guys" by jestin' too easily. These gals have been minin' some deep issues without bein' dis-heads.
I'm humbled & inspired. Their bein' role models for my embarrased, raggedy @$$.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Ok, with all the back and forth that's gone on in this thread, we still haven't settled much.

Again I ask... if Co redeemer is a term that can be applied to any Christian who is doing the Lords work, "helping" in the process of salvation, why then, is it a title given to Mary, and Mary alone? Why isn't it "Co-redeemer bob" and such?

Makes little sense, unless she is held as a co redeemer where others are not.

 

[Benedicta00]

Ok, with all the back and forth that's gone on in this thread, we still haven't settled much.

Again I ask... if Co redeemer is a term that can be applied to any Christian who is doing the Lords work, "helping" in the process of salvation, why then, is it a title given to Mary, and Mary alone? Why isn't it "Co-redeemer bob" and such?

Makes little sense, unless she is held as a co redeemer where others are not.

Becuase her role was unique and very special, None of us will ever do what she did for the sake of the elect. .

 

[Uphill Battle]

Becuase her role was unique and very special, None of us will ever do what she did for the sake of the elect. .

so, you would say that she did more for Christendom than anyone else in all of history?

 

[Benedicta00]

so, you would say that she did more for Christendom than anyone else in all of history?

Not more than Jesus. But more than any other saint. .

 

[Uphill Battle]

Not more than Jesus. But more than any other saint. .

oh, I wasn't thinking about Jesus in the equation... he obviously did it all.


I just look at the math on the matter. Mary bore Christ...


Paul was flogged, stoned, beaten, starved, run out of town, hated, on the defensive from the WORSHIP of deluded pagans, lived with an unspecified ailment for his entire life, and finally, beheaded.

I do not deny what Mary did was something extremely unique. However, can you really argue she did MORE than Paul?

 

[Mobiosity]

then she didn't NEED redemption.

She wasn't He was.

 

[Benedicta00]

oh, I wasn't thinking about Jesus in the equation... he obviously did it all.


I just look at the math on the matter. Mary bore Christ...


Paul was flogged, stoned, beaten, starved, run out of town, hated, on the defensive from the WORSHIP of deluded pagans, lived with an unspecified ailment for his entire life, and finally, beheaded.

I do not deny what Mary did was something extremely unique. However, can you really argue she did MORE than Paul?

Yeah but Paul didn't bring fourth the Word made flesh.

No incarnation UPhill, no redemption. It is just that simple.

Man will live forever more becuase of Christmas day.
.