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I'm aware of that. Nor do I downplay the crucial role that Mary played! However, I would have to disagree that she did "more" for Christendom than a great many people. She played her part as God intended. To say she did more than some of the men who spread the gospel across the world seems afwully silly to me.Yeah but Paul didn't bring fourth the Word made flesh.
No incarnation UPhill, no redemption. It is just that simple.
Man will live forever more becuase of Christmas day.
.
oh, I wasn't thinking about Jesus in the equation... he obviously did it all.
I just look at the math on the matter. Mary bore Christ...
Paul was flogged, stoned, beaten, starved, run out of town, hated, on the defensive from the WORSHIP of deluded pagans, lived with an unspecified ailment for his entire life, and finally, beheaded.
I do not deny what Mary did was something extremely unique. However, can you really argue she did MORE than Paul?
so, would you say then what Mary endured was more than what Jesus did?I notice you have a child, which would be worst for you...to be flogged, stone, beaten, starved ...etc...or to watch your child, be flogged, beaten, spit on, mocked..etc, and drag thru the street as a common criminal, and died a horrible slow death, while others mocked....all the while you knew your child was innocent.
Just a thought.
Peace be with you...Pam
God doesn't require good works. They are fruits of our salvation. We do them because we want to, not because we have to. I am saved because of my faith in Him, not because I have or will do anything.You are really in error and being ascriptual about this. God requires good works from us and fully expects believers to do his will.
so, would you say then what Mary endured was more than what Jesus did?
That's the natural progression of logic to that statement.
God doesn't require good works. They are fruits of our salvation. We do them because we want to, not because we have to. I am saved because of my faith in Him, not because I have or will do anything.
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
funny... I don't remember the bible saying anything about the actions or thoughts of Mary whatsoever. Just that she was there.Nothing strikes fear into the heart of a parent more than their child's suffering, even with just a cold or flu, bike accidents etc...
I cannot imagine Mary's anguish at seeing what was done to her Son...
I cannot imagine standing aside as something like that happened to one of my children...I'd wind up dying in the process of trying to stop it...
I admire the strength and courage it took for her to stand in mute testimony of G-d's will for His Son...I don't know that I'd have that strength.
No, the Holy Spirit convicts them, makes it possible for us to lead them to the truth. We aren't co-nothing.
so, would you say then what Mary endured was more than what Jesus did?
That's the natural progression of logic to that statement.
Hi Lion,What's troubling with statements like these, it is that they border on gnosticism. It's the same "either or" mentality. Flesh evil, can't do anything. Spirit good, does it all.
Peace
Hi Lion,
I was thinking it was more like,
Man, sheep, was lost.
God, good, did it all for us.
And peace be with you Lion.
"Passage Ephesians 2:9:He does require works born of our Salvation:
Scripture is clear that works are required after salvation...else we be just the seed cast on rocky soil....
He did redeem us but we need to co-operate with that redemption. In other words people can say no. Check out the GA forum. Full of people that have said no to God.
Peace
I have no idea where you are coming from.I'm aware of that. Nor do I downplay the crucial role that Mary played! However, I would have to disagree that she did "more" for Christendom than a great many people. She played her part as God intended. To say she did more than some of the men who spread the gospel across the world seems afwully silly to me.
God doesn't require good works. They are fruits of our salvation. We do them because we want to, not because we have to. I am saved because of my faith in Him, not because I have or will do anything.
"Passage Ephesians 2:9:
9Not because of works, lest any man should boast." We are not the seed, we are the field.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass.
24 For he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was.
25 But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty, and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed.
14What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?
15And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:
16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit?
17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
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