Co-Redeemer?

[Erik3]

It is my understanding that in the Catholic church Mary, the Mother of God, is considered a co-redeemer, is this also the case in Orthodox theology?

Thanks, God bless

 

[Michael G]

No.

 

[moses916]

Mary is not a co-redeemer, she is someone we can call onto to pray for us just like the saints!

 

[SteveR2021]

It is my understanding that in the Catholic church Mary, the Mother of God, is considered a co-redeemer, is this also the case in Orthodox theology?

Are you sure this is a doctrine of the Catholic church? If so it is entirely new to me...

 

[moses916]

At least five times Pope Paul II has referred to Mary by the title "Co-redemptrix" in his papal teachings. For example, in 1985, in Guayaquil, Ecuador, the pope said: "Mary goes before us and accompanies us. The silent journey that begins with her Immaculate Conception and passes through the ‘yes’ of Nazareth, which makes her the Mother of God, finds on Calvary a particularly important moment. … In fact, at Calvary she united herself with the sacrifice of her Son that led to the foundation of the Church; her maternal heart shared to the very depths the will of Christ ‘to gather into one all the dispersed children of God’ (Jn. 11:52). Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity. … In fact Mary’s role as Coredemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son" (Inside the Vatican, July 1997, p. 23). taken from http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/marycoredeemer.htm

 

[SteveR2021]

Thank you. I did not know that.

 

[Matrona]

It is my understanding that in the Catholic church Mary, the Mother of God, is considered a co-redeemer, is this also the case in Orthodox theology?

Thanks, God bless

No, it isn't.

Mary's obedience and self-sacrifice made the Incarnation possible, but we Orthodox believe she is a regular human woman.

 

[stray bullet]

It is my understanding that in the Catholic church Mary, the Mother of God, is considered a co-redeemer, is this also the case in Orthodox theology?

Thanks, God bless

Can I ask what you mean by co-redeemer?

As far as I am aware, every Christian believes that Mary gave birth to Jesus and she was obedient to the will of God in doing so. I believe that is what is meant by co-redeemer, that she had no power to save mankind, but simply played a part in that in doing God's will. I think we all agree on that

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

Might I point out that, strictly speaking, this movement within the Catholic Church does not seek to have Mary made co-redeemer with Christ but, rather, co-redemptrix with Him.

It is a fiddly detail, but it bothered me.

-Vasya.

 

[Erik3]

As far as I am aware, every Christian believes that Mary gave birth to Jesus and she was obedient to the will of God in doing so. I believe that is what is meant by co-redeemer, that she had no power to save mankind, but simply played a part in that in doing God's will. I think we all agree on that

I can defintely agree with that

However, when I look at or hear the word co-redeemer it is hard (at least for me) not for it to seem to imply that Mary does have some saving power.

 

[Erik3]

Might I point out that, strictly speaking, this movement within the Catholic Church does not seek to have Mary made co-redeemer with Christ but, rather, co-redemptrix with Him.

It is a fiddly detail, but it bothered me.

-Vasya.

sorry

 

[Michael G]

Even more disturbing than the idea of a Co-Redemptrix is the idea of Mary being the Mediatrix of all Graces Co-eternal! Those were the first two Roman Catholic teachings I found myself openly rejecting!

 

[vanshan]

The Orthodox do see Mary as a great help for our salvation, because we know "the prayers of a righteous man [person] availeth much"--and Mary was without dispute the most honored of all the Church's saints, but we do not use terms like mediatrix, which I think suggests she is somehow different than anyone else, which is not true. Her nature is the same as us all, but her piety exceeds us all. We highly honor her.

Basil

 

[NewToLife]

As far as I am aware, every Christian believes that Mary gave birth to Jesus and she was obedient to the will of God in doing so. I believe that is what is meant by co-redeemer, that she had no power to save mankind, but simply played a part in that in doing God's will. I think we all agree on that

That is consistent with what I understand this term to mean also and given that definition I would think that Orthodox could accept this without problem. That said, I think that the phrase is badly chosen seeing that so many do not understand what co means ( ie co is from the latin cum and means 'with' in a sense of co-operate with rather than equal with ).

 

[Michael G]

That is consistent with what I understand this term to mean also and given that definition I would think that Orthodox could accept this without problem. That said, I think that the phrase is badly chosen seeing that so many do not understand what co means ( ie co is from the latin cum and means 'with' in a sense of co-operate with rather than equal with ).

The idea of Mary being a Co-Redmptrix is completely inconsistent with all Orthodox thought. Her yes to the Angel Gabriel at the Annunciation did in fact enable redemption. I will grant that much. However, she did not do the redeeming. Christ did. Only Christ who was both God and Man could do such a thing. Giving such titles to Mary in totally inconsistent with how the Orthodox Church has always done things. If you look at most icons of Mary she is almost always depicted with Christ in the icon and almost always she is pointing to Christ.

 

[NewToLife]

The idea of Mary being a Co-Redmptrix is completely inconsistent with all Orthodox thought. Her yes to the Angel Gabriel at the Annunciation did in fact enable redemption. I will grant that much. However, she did not do the redeeming. Christ did. Only Christ who was both God and Man could do such a thing. Giving such titles to Mary in totally inconsistent with how the Orthodox Church has always done things. If you look at most icons of Mary she is almost always depicted with Christ in the icon and almost always she is pointing to Christ.

I would point out in my defense that a co-redeemer no more performs the work of a redeemer than a co-enzyme performs the role of an enzyme. Both fulfil a minor precondition that is a requirement of a greater work. In the case of redemption, the Theotokos 'yes' is a precondition of the incarnation of our Lord. She therefore technically does acts as a co-redeemer.

All that said I feel that the term, though perhaps technically correct, is nevertheless badly chosen due to the fact that most misunderstand the meaning of it.

 

[Michael G]

All that said I feel that the term, though perhaps technically correct, is nevertheless badly chosen due to the fact that most misunderstand the meaning of it.

The thing is, I dont misunderstand it. I was raised Roman Catholic, studied in a Roman Catholic seminary and have read the Papal Letter explaining what the Pope meant by coining that term. The meaning which Rome ascribes to that term is inconsistent with Orthodox Christianity.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

No, it isn't.

Mary's obedience and self-sacrifice made the Incarnation possible, but we Orthodox believe she is a regular human woman.

Is it your assertion that Catholics think she is something more than a "regular human woman?"

 

[NewToLife]

The thing is, I dont misunderstand it. I was raised Roman Catholic, studied in a Roman Catholic seminary and have read the Papal Letter explaining what the Pope meant by coining that term. The meaning which Rome ascribes to that term is inconsistent with Orthodox Christianity.

Could you provide a link to a Catholic source giving their ascribed meaning? I am quite curious at this point.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Could you provide a link to a Catholic source giving their ascribed meaning? I am quite curious at this point.

You could always ask the Catholics here what is means.