CNN: Let's Get Real About Abortion

[eastcoast_bsc]

I hear this a lot...public education teaches kids to be animals. I'm in public education. I've taught second, third, fifth, and sixth grades. I also know several middle school and high school teachers quite well. Nowhere in our system do we teach pre-marital sex as a virtue, we don't discuss the gay lifestyle, we don't discuss divorce, condoms, hooking up, or any of the other stuff I keep hearing. I'm always hearing this stuff. The P.E. teacher at our school teaches family life. I've sat in my classroom working at my computer while he taught the "Growth and Development/Family Life" curriculum. It talks about hormones, changes in your body, things to expect as your body changes, and it actually talks about sex being connected to love and nowhere do I ever hear any such nonsense about how kids should go nail every girl they see on sight? Never. They don't pass out condoms in our high schools or train kids to be chimpanzees with hormone rages. This is far Right propaganda aimed at making public education the great satan out to program the youth away from God. It's pure poppycock.

Well I can tell you the opposite. In fact there is a website, that was highly recommended by the Boston public schools. Children were sent to this site.

That is 128 schools, and 56,0000 students. This is the site that was recommended. It is called Maria Talks | Maria Talks


Warning, the sex section is quite graphic **************

They use this website in most major cities. I have read countless narratives regarding the California school system. I am not buying it.

 

[JCFantasy23]

No surprise here--they agree with me that the punitive model, while it may make the self-righteous feel even more self-righteous by making mothers bear the natural consequences of their 'sins,' often while the fathers get off scot-free, is not the most effective policy.

I'm not sure what else our country can personally do to help pregnant women and prevent abortion through social services and personal efforts. It seems to me we already try to do a good bit - medicaid, WIC, maternity leave, and in my state, Florida, you can get monthly disability payments if you're pregnant and not working.

Further down in the article, it talks about the increase in abortion in the Netherlands when immigrants from patriarchal cultures moved in.

From a personal standpoint, our country promotes equality to women or tries to, and independence, so I don't see it as patriarchal any longer.

It is an interesting article, Fantine, just not sure I agree that it is a major contribution to why so many unwed mothers get pregnant and abort in the US today.

 

[S.ilvio]

Clearlya combination of restricting abortion and the State supporting parents is the best way to go.

You gus in the States don't get childrens Allowance? Wow.

But then again we, in Europe, are Stalinists right?

 

[Fantine]

I also don't think we've fully harnessed the power of the media to try to change behavior--not in a condemnatory way, but by showing "natural consequences."

Dr. Phil has started out:

Do you think shows that feature teen moms glamorize pregnancy? Take a poll!

While teen pregnancy is down in the US, the rate is still eight times higher than it is in Japan, two times higher than it is in Canada and England, and the highest in the western industrialized world.
Teen pregnancy costs the U.S. at least $9 billion annually.

School Comes Second:
Teen pregnancy is the number one reason why teen girls drop out of school.
Only one-third of adolescent mothers will graduate high school, and only slightly over 1 percent of those will earn a college degree before they turn 30.
Twenty-five percent of teen moms have a second child within 24 months.

It's Hardest on the Kids:
Children of teen moms do worse in school than those born to older parents — with half failing a grade. Those same children are less likely to finish high school then those from older mothers and have a lower performance on standardized tests. Many children born to teen moms have behavioral problems, juvenile delinquency and conflict with authority.
Two-thirds of families begun by a young unmarried mother are poor. More than half of all mothers on welfare had their first child as a teenager.
Daughters of teen moms are three times more likely to become teenage mothers themselves. The sons of teen moms are two times more likely to end up in prison.

A Baby Won't Make Him Stay
Eight out of ten fathers in cases of teen pregnancy don't marry the mother of their child, and these absent fathers pay less than $800 annually for child support. Children who live apart from their fathers are also five times more likely to be poverty-stricken than children with both parents at home.

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - The Real Teen Mom: Alarming Statistics

What aren't we doing to stop teen pregnancy that other countries are doing?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Ireland has abortion as illegal - the model for the world.
Silvio can tell us the % of unwed mothers....perhaps.
But likely it is a ton lower than anywhere else where it is legal.

If you have some easy access to get rid of the child - and no one has to know - then it makes for a higher run in immoral choices. Because there are NO consequences to the act - the act takes on a very insignificant meaning.

Abortion and BC promote sin. The sins of the flesh - because the act and pregnancy thereof are inconsequential.

 

[AMDG]

Ireland has abortion as illegal - the model for the world.
Silvio can tell us the % of unwed mothers....perhaps.
But likely it is a ton lower than anywhere else where it is legal.

If you have some easy access to get rid of the child - and no one has to know - then it makes for a higher run in immoral choices. Because there are NO consequences to the act - the act takes on a very insignificant meaning.

Abortion and BC promote sin. The sins of the flesh - because the act and pregnancy thereof are inconsequential.

When abortion was first made legal in the U.S. the "no one has to know--it'll be our secret" was one of the reasons touted. Think, who else wants to keep behavior a secret. Who else says "don't tell, let's keep this our secret". If you are thinking "A pervert. One who really doesn't care and is only acting for himself so that he can get away with things" you'd be right.

And I have to laugh at the Obama ad that talks about comparing voting with having sex the first time when when she talks about doing it with a guy who wants her on birth control. Well of course he would. That way he wouldn't have to pay child support--he could be free to "sow his wild oats" with every willing girl. And when someone is aware that there have been numerous studies linking the birth control pill with breast cancer, the ad becomes downright cynical.

 

[S.ilvio]

Around 35% of all births in Ireland are to single mothers...

 

[JCFantasy23]

I also don't think we've fully harnessed the power of the media to try to change behavior--not in a condemnatory way, but by showing "natural consequences."

Dr. Phil has started out:



Dr. Phil.com - Advice - The Real Teen Mom: Alarming Statistics

What aren't we doing to stop teen pregnancy that other countries are doing?

I didn't consider this when writing my response last night. Wasn't thinking of the teenage mothers and society. Makes me wonder if more abortions are from underage women, I'm not sure, haven't looked it up, but wouldn't be surprised.

It's true that to get pregnant in school seems to be a big no-no. Around here girls seem "encouraged" by the school to leave school if they are pregnant. Not sure why, I suppose they worry it would infect other girls to want to become pregnant, or else there's medical risks they'd have to watch for the pregnant girl. They're suggested to get a GED or go to special schools. I suppose this added stress and fear of losing education would make more of them inclined to have an abortion.


I also have to say I notice a lot of people around me personally who are against abortion when it's brought up but they seem to say, but yeah if it was my daughter (who is such and such an age) got pregnant so young I'd want her to have an abortion. My fiance does this himself. He's against abortion and considers it murder but then brings up if his thirteen year old daughter got pregnant he'd be okay with an abortion because she's too young and can't handle it.

So I suppose US society does contribute to raised abortion rates in unwed teenage mothers.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Around 35% of all births in Ireland are to single mothers...

I would have to do the math - minus the aborted children vs the stats for unwed mothers in our country. Something Ireland doesnt have to do.

I think 33% on average - is the total sum of women aborting...
So we are already way over the amount of Ireland if they are 35% unwed without the option to abort.

Then of course we have the unwed mother stats - which adding onto the abortion stats - makes it quite high. Quite high indeed.

2009 showed only 36% of women are married.

We are at 45% unwed mothers. [again - minus the abortions]

WOW.
Holy load of immoral choices.

Marriage & Family Charts

BC and abortion begets a certain immoral feast in a nation - that is for sure.

BTW - the abortion stat i found a few weeks ago. I found it incredulous. Being Obama is concealing stats since he has been in office it is likely to be at a much higher rate. Otherwise not understanding why he would hide it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

And even if hypothetically - [because i forget the stat for married women aborting] i think its 11% - then 22% + 45% = 67% of women are getting pregnant outside of marriage.

Ireland sees half that rate. And sees all of its children being born unless they run off to another country to abort. It sure stems the sins from over taking the country.

Keep up the good work Ireland.

 

[JCFantasy23]

What aren't we doing to stop teen pregnancy that other countries are doing?

Honestly? No idea.

 

[S.ilvio]

Keep up the good work Ireland.

So you support our generous Childrens Allowance payments from Government to mothers? Funded by our taxes?

Great!

We'll make a Catholic Socilaist out of you yet...

 

[princess_ballet]

I hear this a lot...public education teaches kids to be animals. I'm in public education. I've taught second, third, fifth, and sixth grades. I also know several middle school and high school teachers quite well. Nowhere in our system do we teach pre-marital sex as a virtue, we don't discuss the gay lifestyle, we don't discuss divorce, condoms, hooking up, or any of the other stuff I keep hearing. I'm always hearing this stuff. The P.E. teacher at our school teaches family life. I've sat in my classroom working at my computer while he taught the "Growth and Development/Family Life" curriculum. It talks about hormones, changes in your body, things to expect as your body changes, and it actually talks about sex being connected to love and nowhere do I ever hear any such nonsense about how kids should go nail every girl they see on sight? Never. They don't pass out condoms in our high schools or train kids to be chimpanzees with hormone rages. This is far Right propaganda aimed at making public education the great satan out to program the youth away from God. It's pure poppycock.

I'm conservative, but this irks me too. I went to public high school and we had a abstinence club. I mean, come on.

And let's not get started with peoples misunderstanding relating to the separation of church and state. We took school prayer out and now everything has gone to pot!!!

No, it was a very, very good thing that we stopped forcing schools and teachers to lead students in prayer.

*end rant*

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well you can go on what you've heard, and I'll go on what I SEE with my own two eyes. I actually teach sixth grade, where family life is taught. I sit through the whole thing and hear and watch the teacher present the whole thing. No Roman orgies, no mind control, no recommendations, no suggestions, no hinting or subliminal brainwashing, just talking about hormones, how the body works, how sex works, etc. The female teacher discusses with the girls their menstrual periods, body changes, what is a normal expectation in body growth, how pregnancy works, and they answer questions. The men talk about male genitalia, arousal, what's to be expected, hormones, and body changes.....hate to disappoint ya, but there is no porn film, no Caligula-like orgy, no condoms pulled over cucumbers, and the kids are encouraged to ask their parents about anything not discussed......

I have high-schoolers come back to me right and left and they always tell me the same stuff at H.S. is what is in elementary.

I just got through teaching a 3-week history unit on the Ancient Israelites, a California social studies standard. We discussed everyone in the Old Testament and went through Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Judges, into Samuel, etc. We studied the heroes of Scripture and my kids and their parents told me that they learned 50 times more from me in my PUBLIC classroom than their own sunday schools and Bible studies. In fact, I have one boy who came to me from our local Catholic School. He said he learned more from me about the OT in 3 weeks than from Kindergarten through fifth grade in his Catholic private school. I've heard tons of positive feedback.

In May we study Christianity for weeks in our Roman Empire unit, another PUBLIC California state standard....

I know for hardcore conservatives, it's always sobering and disappointing to hear that we in the public sector aren't harpy vampires brainwashing kids. My kids will learn more about the Bible and God than most private kids in my entire area. I'm proud of that.

So, to sum up....no pervert brainwashing, and God is not the F word in our state

And I know conservatives usually also think moderates are making this stuff up, conspiratorial, so I'll show you the exact state standard:

6.3.1. Describe the origins and significance of Judaism as the first monotheistic religion based on the concept of one God who sets down moral laws for humanity. 9
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.3.1.
6.3.2. Identify the sources of the ethical teachings and central beliefs of Judaism (the Hebrew Bible, the Commentaries): belief in God, observance of law, practice of the concepts of righteousness and justice, and importance of study; and describe how the ideas of the Hebrew traditions are reflected in the moral and ethical traditions of Western civilization. 9
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.3.2.
6.3.3. Explain the significance of Abraham, Moses, Naomi, Ruth, David, and Yohanan ben Zaccai in the development of the Jewish religion. 9
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.3.3.
6.3.4. Discuss the locations of the settlements and movements of Hebrew peoples, including the Exodus and their movement to and from Egypt, and outline the significance of the Exodus to the Jewish and other people. 9
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.3.4.
6.3.5. Discuss how Judaism survived and developed despite the continuing dispersion of much of the Jewish population from Jerusalem and the rest of Israel after the destruction of the second Temple in A.D. 70. 9
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.3.5.


And here's the stuff for Christianity...

6.7.5. Trace the migration of Jews around the Mediterranean region and the effects of their conflict with the Romans, including the Romans' restrictions on their right to live in Jerusalem. 42
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.7.5.
6.7.6. Note the origins of Christianity in the Jewish Messianic prophecies, the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament, and the contribution of St. Paul the Apostle to the definition and spread of Christian beliefs (e.g., belief in the Trinity, resurrection, salvation). 13
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.7.6.
6.7.7. Describe the circumstances that led to the spread of Christianity in Europe and other Roman territories. 13
Suggested Titles for California Social Studies State Standard 6.7.7.

Well I can tell you the opposite. In fact there is a website, that was highly recommended by the Boston public schools. Children were sent to this site.

That is 128 schools, and 56,0000 students. This is the site that was recommended. It is called Maria Talks | Maria Talks


Warning, the sex section is quite graphic **************

They use this website in most major cities. I have read countless narratives regarding the California school system. I am not buying it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

So you support our generous Childrens Allowance payments from Government to mothers? Funded by our taxes?

Great!

We'll make a Catholic Socilaist out of you yet...

What the media you get - you have no idea the programs in place here already.

ChiP - free insurance for children [you dont have to be dirt poor either - anyone can get it if they apply]
WIC - women, infants, children - free milks and dietary assistance for those named.
Welfare - obvious what that is.
Medicaid - free insurance for the poor.
etc etc etc

 

[S.ilvio]

What the media you get - you have no idea the programs in place here already.

ChiP - free insurance for children [you dont have to be dirt poor either - anyone can get it if they apply]
WIC - women, infants, children - free milks and dietary assistance for those named.
Welfare - obvious what that is.
Medicaid - free insurance for the poor.
etc etc etc

Your halfway to Liberation Theology Utopia...

 

[WarriorAngel]

Dude, i am a moderate - strongly leaning conservative.
I am the best of both worlds - but i see the necessity of freedom and the necessity of working to provide jobs and freedom from high taxes.
I am also pro life.

Now - low taxes, no abortions [and other immoral activities no longer getting the limelight] , and that would be utopia.

 

[MKJ]

Ireland has abortion as illegal - the model for the world.
Silvio can tell us the % of unwed mothers....perhaps.
But likely it is a ton lower than anywhere else where it is legal.

Well, I think we need to be somewhat realistic here. Yes, women in Ireland are not getting elective abortions. But more than 4000 Irish women a year travel to get them in England and Wales.

So certianly much much fewer than in the US. But not none, either.

 

[Ave Maria]

I will not condone abortion under any circumstances whatsoever. However, assuming that Richard Mourdock's quote is taken in context and everything by the media I would condemn what he said. God does not intend for any woman to get raped. Rape is an evil act and is gravely sinful. God would not intend for something evil to happen.

So, if a woman is raped and does get pregnant I would not condone an abortion under any circumstance whatsoever. However, I would condone giving the mother assistance with raising her child and with the pregnancy. If that means free medical help for the duration of her pregnancy and for a while afterwards or even for life afterwards then so be it. If that means providing her with free food so she can feed herself then so be it. If it means providing her with free or low cost baby supplies then so be it. If I had the means, I would be willing to provide a woman with any incentive necessary to prevent her from getting an abortion.

That said, if a woman is raped and gets an abortion, she can still be forgiven. All that is necessary is that she goes to Confession with a sincere and contrite heart and a firm purpose of amendment.