Closed minded Christians

[Faith In God]

i was referring to nb. i assumed that you didn't know.

 

[Shyguy]

what is nb?

 

[Shannonkish]

NB, I am a little confused.

Are you telling me that as a Christian I can't enjoy "secular" music because it is in the world? Or that I can't go see a play that has nothing to do with God because it is in the world? Or that I can't go to an art show because it in the world? And all this in the name of "Following Christ?"

I am sorry, I am a Christian... and if that is what the church is trying to teach (which they are) then I don't want to be under the umbrella of a "Christian" or following Christ by those standards.

Praise God that I only have to answer to HIM and not Christians, because I would be in a world of trouble. Praise God that He is creator of art, beauty, music, THE WORLD, and that He has given me the world as a playground to enjoy while I am here on earth.

Am I belittling our call to go out and reach the lost? Not at all.. as a matter of fact, you can't reach the lost if you close yourself off from the world. I enjoy creation, every aspect of it. I also enjoy God.

I believe John Piper puts it best.... and yes, I am a Christian Hedonist, "God is most glorified in us we we are most satisfied in him." I seek after the pleasures that life has to offer, and I geninuely enjoy the whole of my life.... I enjoy art, music, movies, and so much more. I also think that christians can be the most hard headed, sensative, close-minded bunch out there, myself included sometimes. I enjoy creation.. and by enjoying creation... I glorify God.

 

[Shyguy]

I agree with Shannonkish.

 

[Faith In God]

nb=nbChristseeker.
and i think he's been lurking for a while now...

 

[Shyguy]

nb=newbie???

if that is what nb stands for then i am not a nbChristseeker. I have been a Christian all my life

 

[Faith In God]

nb=newbie???

if that is what nb stands for then i am not a nbChristseeker. I have been a Christian all my life

arg!! when i mentioned nb, i was referring to nb christseeker!!

 

[Shyguy]

oh I got you now I am a Christseeker

but how do you get nb out of Ctristspeeker???

 

[tndrwarrior]

God endows each of us with at least an inkling of every spiritual gift but to each individual an abundance of a specific one be it music, leadership, or tounges. We then have the choice to use our gifts for God's purpose or for our own selfish desires. If an artist paints boats is he throwing away his spiritual gift because he chooses not to paint pictures of the crucifixion. No. I don't think anyone would argue with that but as soon as it turns to secular music there is immediately a debate. Of course if the artist attributes his talents to his own hard work, well then there's a problem but merely because his lyrics do not reference scripture does not mean it is a waste of God given talent. Different people produce fruit with their God given talents in various ways and this pleases the Lord.

Sorry if this isn't really the topic of debate, its hard to read through these massive strings of posts.

Oh and rock on Demon Hunter.

 

[Shyguy]

So you are saying secular music is bad Just because it doesnt speak of God. What if it clasical music or music that has no words in it is it a waste of God given talent???

 

[nb_christseeker]

As for secular music, art, etc... this is a topic that one can't just approach with a machete attempt to understand it. you gotta approach it with more of a surgical kind of approach, carefully, thoughtfully, being rational and reasonable and biblical. Though some would argue that those words can't be used together... (rational and biblical), I believe they can.

The thing that God is trying to make us realize is he is the creator of all of these things which are on earth, and so even if we do love a song, or a piece of art, we shouldn't be loving it in and of itself for itself, but we should see it and immediately think of the true creator of that work of art and the entire universe, who is God. In HIM, himself, is all the riches. You see a supermodel, well God is the maker of that body. So even viewing a supermodel could be an opportunity for glorifying God, if it is done in the right way. An issue like this can't be approached with machete logic, but must be approached with care.

Solomon was rich, but he glorified God for his riches and trusted in God as his true riches. But there comes a point, "loving the world and the things in the world" where that love is no longer a love of God who created those things, but a love of the things themselves, which is a kind of idol worship. Even if you enjoy a really cool tv show, realize that God made the quarks and atoms and photons and eyes and brain that allowed you to enjoy that show. In such, you will be drawn closer and closer to Christ in EVERYthing you do, and you wonj't have to worry so much.

God gives each person talents and stuff, but we gotta realize how RICH God is in ALL things, and "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, all thy mind, all thy soul, all thy strength..." with our everything.

 

[Shyguy]

lol I am sorry I am kinda slow

 

[HoT-MetaL]

Some people can be v. legalistic about things, and refuse to change any tradition, regardless of whether it is scriptural or not.

But then ive met evangelicals who think demons are behind the curtains!

Its always nice to see a Christian whos not so flipping small-minded. I went to a church the other day, where the pastor said "Today 5people gave their lives to God... How awesome is that? But why should we settle for 5people a day? In God we want to see 5000 people a day being saved."

That really blessed me

God Bless, metal.

 

[Faith In God]

Some people can be v. legalistic about things, and refuse to change any tradition, regardless of whether it is scriptural or not.

But then ive met evangelicals who think demons are behind the curtains!

Its always nice to see a Christian whos not so flipping small-minded. I went to a church the other day, where the pastor said "Today 5people gave their lives to God... How awesome is that? But why should we settle for 5people a day? In God we want to see 5000 people a day being saved."

That really blessed me

God Bless, metal.

all heaven rejoices at one sinner's repentance.

and nb, just a note on that.

one way to describe what you are talking about is to love the giver rather than the gift. It's like an illustration a pastor used.
He gave his kids a tv to watch cartoons on, but the first day he came home with it, his kids did not run to meet him like they normally did. So the man went in front of the tv, turned it off, and told the kids that if that tv got in the way of their love for their dad, then they had a wrong order of affections and the tv would go. the tv was there for their entertainment, but they were loving the gift rather than the giver.

 

[nb_christseeker]

>>He gave his kids a tv to watch cartoons on, but the first day he came home with it, his kids did not run to meet him like they normally did. So the man went in front of the tv, turned it off, and told the kids that if that tv got in the way of their love for their dad, then they had a wrong order of affections and the tv would go. the tv was there for their entertainment, but they were loving the gift rather than the giver.

great analogy! that's exactly the point I was getting at. And I wonder how many times does God take away our gifts when we don't give him thanks for them?

 

[HoosierCanuck]

My take on the original post: Judging someone based on how they look is wrong, a sin. I'm sure everyone has done it at one time or another and they need to confess these sins to God. You shouldn't be shunned because of dreadlocks. I know what you mean though....my parents and I used to go to this one particular church that had a lot of wealthy people (we never have been in that category!). One day while waiting by the door, a woman gasped and turned to my dad and said 'what is that woman doing here?' Dad didn't understand at first but the woman was saying that because the woman in question appeared to be very poor. After that conversation took place we promptly switched churches.

Another example would be a speaker who recently visited my church (named Tom). He told the story of wanting to meet with a couple of other men in the church for coffee. Our town has two coffee shops....one caters to the young 'hip' mostly non-Christian crowd and the other is a Christian bookstore with a deli/coffee shop. Well, one of the men Tom was to meet with said the 'hip' place had better coffee but it wasn't a good place to go because of the atmosphere. Tom said he would RATHER go there because how are we going to reach the lost if we shut ourselves away from them?

It's easy to get comfortable in our 'Christian zone' once we've been there awhile. Some may have temptation issues and know they HAVE to avoid certain places, things, etc.. However, I don't think it gives them a license to judge. I think this gets confused by a lot of people.

(sorry so long)

 

[Shannonkish]

God endows each of us with at least an inkling of every spiritual gift but to each individual an abundance of a specific one be it music, leadership, or tounges. We then have the choice to use our gifts for God's purpose or for our own selfish desires. If an artist paints boats is he throwing away his spiritual gift because he chooses not to paint pictures of the crucifixion. No. I don't think anyone would argue with that but as soon as it turns to secular music there is immediately a debate. Of course if the artist attributes his talents to his own hard work, well then there's a problem but merely because his lyrics do not reference scripture does not mean it is a waste of God given talent. Different people produce fruit with their God given talents in various ways and this pleases the Lord.

Sorry, I have a REAL problem with this. If an artist paints a boat it can be and is just as glorifying as a picture of the crucifixiton! God gave gifts to people but he didn't limit them and say, "You can only paint my son's death!". Thomas Kinkade... while there is a LOT that I can say about his "art" I won't. He is a Christian "painter" and he doesn't simply paint pictures with a religious theme to them. Does that mean that only the art that has a religious theme is glorifying to God? I think not!

What glorifies God? Is it the heart of the person, or is it the theme of the art, music, etc? If it is the theme.. then yeah, you are right.. but a secular, unsaved painter can paint a picture of the cross.. does that mean that he is glorifying God more than a christian who paints a boat? NO! Because it goes back to the heart of the person.

As for music... Lifehouse. I picked up there CD from a friend of mine, not knowing a thing about them or their music. However, when I listened to the CD I sweared up and down they were a Chrisitan band... but guess what? They NEVER mention God or scripture in their music... does that mean it is worthless? Hardly so.. I have been touched more by some of Lifehouse's music than I have by Steven Curtis Chapman. POD, a band full of Christians.. however they are on a secular label and their music is much like LH in that they don't mention God or scriptue... Stacey Orrico, Out Of Eden, etc.

Music is a whole different topic.. however, I would suggest you look past the religious **** and focus on Christ. Christ will show you what is harmful and what is beneficial.

 

[pressingon]

Sorry, I have a REAL problem with this.

You might want to re-read the post you're responding to, Shannon. I think they basically agreed with you. The wording in one sentence was a little confusing, though... I had to re-read it a couple times to make sure I got what they intended to communicate.

I guess a good guideline in the usage of our talents is the parable of the vine and the branches (John 15:1-8). Although not specifically mentioning usage of our talents, I think it communicates a valuable lesson about that anyway -- everything we have comes from God. Now, we should ask ourselves, as Christians, what kind of fruit should we produce with what He has given us? Are we here to bring glory to ourselves, or to Him who created us? What do our fruits demonstrate? It's a matter of self-examination and personal conviction.

 

[tndrwarrior]

I'm sorry Shannonkish but you seem to be arguing against someone who agrees with you. Thank you pressingon for understanding, I am new not just to these forums but to forums as a whole, so I apologize for the confusing post.

 

[Shannonkish]

I apologize... however, as it was stated, the post was really confusing.