[closed] Major Changes to posting in this forum

Ran77 · May 5, 2015

Edial said:
The Gods

Book of Abraham 4:1

1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/4?lang=eng

Which does nothing to refute the point that I actually made. Which is Jesus was in the beginning and Jesus was God. Then again, this is not surprising.

Since you want to go that direction:

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Here we see the double standard again. The Bible can say "us" when discussing the creation and the LDS are criticized for stating pretty much the same thing.

I get an absolute kick out of watching other people tell us what we believe. And not only that but find nothing wrong with the situation.

Ran77 · May 5, 2015

Is anyone besides me wondering what the next step will be along the path they have established here? Does it send chills down anyone else's back? I think it'd be better if they just banned all the LDS and JWs, but then who would they openly criticize. I guess I just don't see the need to call someone a cultist, a non-believer, or a deceiver.

:o

A New Dawn · May 5, 2015

Edial said:
The purpose of defining Mormon theology as non-Christian is not to call names, but to state facts.

By removing the restriction against not calling them "non-Christian", no matter what your intention is, people WILL do just that. YOU have made it not against the rules to flame other people with this move because you didn't just make their theology "non-Christian" (it was already classified as such), you made them non-Christian. All of the backtracking in the world will not undo what you did with this move.

LDS and JW may call themselves anything they want.
However, it would no longer be a violation to call the denomination non-Christian.

So, is the flaming isolated to calling the "denomination" non-Christian, or are you allowing it for the people, themselves?

You keep claiming that the LDS and JW can call themselves anything they want, but in the next breath you come out with the threat that if they do call themselves Christian, but post LDS theology, they will be violating the rules and will likely be forced to change icons. You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that they can call themselves anything they want and then penalize them for it. You ARE denying them the right to claim to be Christian.

TheBarrd · May 5, 2015

It seems to me that an awful lot of people are jumping on Edial for what was a staff decision. Edial did not make this decision all by himself.

Edial has said several times that the Mormon belief that God was once a man born on another world is basically the problem. A God who was once a man is obviously not eternal, since eternal means "no beginning" as well as "no end".
Christianity teaches that God existed before there were worlds for a man to be born on, so obviously, He could not have been born a man on another world.

Further, Christianity teaches that the Bible is the Word of God, and is complete, containing all the information the seeker after truth needs to find salvation. Mormon teaching is that the Bible is corrupt and incomplete, having lost many precious truths, which, of course, only they now possess.

To allow these false teachings to masquerade as "Christianity" would be tantamount to teaching a lie. To say that it is against the rules for someone to point out that these teachings are false and not Christian is to put a gag on the truth.

I am happy and relieved to see that staff has made this decision, and I am praying that, by doing so, we may continue to preach the Word of God, both in and out of season.

For what it's worth, that is my Poor Widow's Two Mites....

Theway · May 5, 2015

psalms 91 said:
Actually Jesus laid out the WAay in Matthew Mark Luke and John and if that is what you mean then I follow the way. It is your beliefs about Jesus and quite a few other things that set you apart from Christianity, not that your right because no denom has it all right to begin with.

No... The actual name of the First Church was "The Way" that is why is is capitalized in most Bible versions.

A New Dawn · May 5, 2015

Edial said:
I gave you the very verses Christ Himself uttered about His identity in the context of the uncreated and unchanged God the Father of the Bible.

LDS teaches "God" who evolved into God from man - which is not God of the Bible.

If you would be saying outside of this thread that CO is a Christian Club you would be in violation of CF rules.

Which rule would that be?

TheBarrd · May 5, 2015

Facts are facts.
God was never a man born on another world.
That is not a Christian teaching.
In fact, it borders on...and may actually be...blasphemy.
It doesn't matter what he/she calls him/herself...the person holding such beliefs is not Christian, and it would be a disservice to God and to that person to let him/her continue in their delusion.

TasteForTruth · May 5, 2015

Edial said:
The purpose of defining Mormon theology as non-Christian is not to call names, but to state facts.

LDS and JW may call themselves anything they want.
However, it would no longer be a violation to call the denomination non-Christian.

And yet, defining Mormon theology as you have defined it is not consistent with the facts.

Theway · May 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
Facts are facts.
God was never a man born on another world.
That is not a Christian teaching.
In fact, it borders on...and may actually be...blasphemy.
It doesn't matter what he/she calls him/herself...the person holding such beliefs is not Christian, and it would be a disservice to God and to that person to let him/her continue in their delusion.

Really???

Do you worship Christ?
Is Christ God?
Was Christ born on this earth?
Was He not fully man?
Was He not resurrected with an eternally (never to be separated from) incarnate body of flesh and bones?
Is it not true to say then that you worship a God with a body of flesh and bones, who was once a man but is now perfected?

It seems the only thing that is different here is that we can actually say it out loud, while when you say it, it is blasphemy! I love the freedom that Mormonism allows.

But I think your confusion is because you think that we believe as doctrine that God was not always God. That is not true no matter what nondoctrinal sources you quote.
However that shouldn't even matter since they have already stated that they did not use those opinions to determine their decision. I wish they'd just be more forthcoming and admit the real reason.

TheBarrd · May 5, 2015

Theway said:
Really???

Do you worship Christ?
Is Christ God?
Was Christ born on this earth?
Was He not fully man?
Was He not resurrected with an eternally (never to be separated from) incarnate body of flesh and bones?
Is it not true to say then that you worship a God with a body of flesh and bones, who was once a man but is now perfected?

It seems the only thing that is different here is that we can actually say it out loud, while when you say it, it is blasphemy! I love the freedom that Mormonism allows.

But I think your confusion is because you think that we believe as doctrine that God was not always God. That is not true no matter what nondoctrinal sources you quote.
However that shouldn't even matter since they have already stated that they did not use those opinions to determine their decision. I wish they'd just be more forthcoming and admit the real reason.

God the Father was never a man born on another world. If God was once a man born on another world then He was not always God.
If He were "exalted" to His Godhood by the God of that world, then that makes two Gods. Of course, that God was also a man who was born on yet another word, who was exalted...there is no end to it. This is not a Christian teaching.
It really is that simple.

Then, too, in order to be exalted, I understand, a potential god must have a wife, who will join him in his new capacity as god. She will be "Heavenly Mother", and will give birth to the new god's "spirit children" who will eventually be given bodies and populate the new god's new world, where they will grow up and, hopefully, become gods just like their Daddy.
This is not Christian teaching.

I'm sorry, but those who believe such things are not Christians, no matter what they call themselves.

psalms 91 · May 5, 2015

Ran77 said:
No, that is not LDS doctrine. That is what you have chosen to attribute to us. LDS doctrine states that the Word was in the beginning and the Word was God. The LDS believe that Christ was God before He came to Earth and gained a body. You can call us cultists, non-Christians, and deceivers all you want, but I take exception to you misrepresenting our beliefs.

:o

hmmm, I wo0uld be curious what the D&C says about some of this and are we all gods?

Ran77 · May 5, 2015

psalms 91 said:
hmmm, I wo0uld be curious what the D&C says about some of this and are we all gods?

Thank you for telling me that you are curious about it.

Ran77 · May 5, 2015

Theway said:
Really???

Do you worship Christ?
Is Christ God?
Was Christ born on this earth?
Was He not fully man?
Was He not resurrected with an eternally (never to be separated from) incarnate body of flesh and bones?
Is it not true to say then that you worship a God with a body of flesh and bones, who was once a man but is now perfected?

It seems the only thing that is different here is that we can actually say it out loud, while when you say it, it is blasphemy! I love the freedom that Mormonism allows.

But I think your confusion is because you think that we believe as doctrine that God was not always God. That is not true no matter what nondoctrinal sources you quote.
However that shouldn't even matter since they have already stated that they did not use those opinions to determine their decision. I wish they'd just be more forthcoming and admit the real reason.

I noticed more dodging and no addressing what you actually posted. No surprise.

TheBarrd · May 5, 2015

Ran77 said:
I noticed more dodging and no addressing what you actually posted. No surprise.

Before you can understand Who Jesus is, you must first understand Who God is. God was never a man, not ever. He was, is, and always will be God. There has never been and will never be any other God but God, ever.
Jesus was with God from the beginning. Nothing was made without Him.
What you guys are not getting is that there never, ever, ever was a time when Jesus was not God.
But in order to truly understand that, you must first understand that there never was a time, ever, when God was not God.
There was a time, if I may use the term, when the universe did not exist...
There were no worlds for God to be born on, or any matter for Him to "rearrange".
These beliefs are not Christian.

Edial · May 5, 2015

Ran77 said:
Is anyone besides me wondering what the next step will be along the path they have established here? Does it send chills down anyone else's back? I think it'd be better if they just banned all the LDS and JWs, but then who would they openly criticize. I guess I just don't see the need to call someone a cultist, a non-believer, or a deceiver.

:o

Campaigning is not necessary.

Today we are making it a point where CF stands on this.
Once we move the threads then we simply move on to another day.

TasteForTruth · May 5, 2015

Edial said:
Campaigning is not necessary.

Today we are making it a point where CF stands on this.
Once we move the threads then we simply move on to another day.

Then why bother having this thread? If the decision cannot be appealed, there is no meaningful point in allowing us to voice our opposition to it.

Edial · May 5, 2015

TasteForTruth said:
Then why bother having this thread? If the decision cannot be appealed, there is no meaningful point in allowing us to voice our opposition to it.

OK, I will close it.
It does seem the topic ran it's course.

I will let people know when all this is in effect and we move on ...

Thanks,
Ed

Edial · May 5, 2015

Closed.

[closed] Major Changes to posting in this forum

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