Clarification of 3rd Christian Principle of Foru.ms: Satanism/ Satanic symbols

[Erwin]

Hi

Due to the recent controversy regarding the promotion of Satanism and the debate over certain symbols that some members consider are Satanic, this clarification announcement has been made.

Essentially, the 5 Christian Principles of Foru.ms remains and are not changed.

However, the 3rd principle has been clarified from this:
3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God. (Respect the name of God and Jesus - no anti-Christ messages or images)

to this:

3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God. (Respect the name of God and Jesus - no anti-Christ messages or images - Satanism is considered anti-Christ, so the promotion of Satanism apart from apologetics debate and exclusively Satanic symbols are prohibited)

Refer here:
http://foru.ms/principles

Site-wide rules should be drafted with the above Principle in mind.

In relation to what "exclusively Satanic symbols" mean, this does not mean an upside down star, because the upside down star was used for the Seal of Constantine, and the symbol for the city of Jerusalem, but an upside star with a goat's head in the middle would be considered an exclusively Satanic symbol. The Principle is not meant to be a rule but to guide rule-making, so it will not go into detail to be too inclusive or exclusive.

Hope this clarifies matters in relation to this issue.

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Hi

Due to the recent controversy regarding the promotion of Satanism and the debate over certain symbols that some members consider are Satanic, this clarification announcement has been made.

Essentially, the 5 Christian Principles of Foru.ms remains and are not changed.

However, the 3rd principle has been clarified from this:
3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God. (Respect the name of God and Jesus - no anti-Christ messages or images)

to this:

3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God. (Respect the name of God and Jesus - no anti-Christ messages or images - Satanism is considered anti-Christ, so the promotion of Satanism apart from apologetics debate and exclusively Satanic symbols are prohibited)

Refer here:
http://foru.ms/principles

Site-wide rules should be drafted with the above Principle in mind.

In relation to what "exclusively Satanic symbols" mean, this does not mean an upside down star, because the upside down star was used for the Seal of Constantine, and the symbol for the city of Jerusalem, but an upside star with a goat's head in the middle would be considered an exclusively Satanic symbol. The Principle is not meant to be a rule but to guide rule-making, so it will not go into detail to be too inclusive or exclusive.

Hope this clarifies matters in relation to this issue.

Thank you Erwin...that helps alot!

 

[Jebediah]

Hi

Due to the recent controversy regarding the promotion of Satanism and the debate over certain symbols that some members consider are Satanic, this clarification announcement has been made.

Essentially, the 5 Christian Principles of Foru.ms remains and are not changed.

However, the 3rd principle has been clarified from this:
3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God. (Respect the name of God and Jesus - no anti-Christ messages or images)

to this:

3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God. (Respect the name of God and Jesus - no anti-Christ messages or images - Satanism is considered anti-Christ, so the promotion of Satanism apart from apologetics debate and exclusively Satanic symbols are prohibited)

Refer here:
http://foru.ms/principles

Site-wide rules should be drafted with the above Principle in mind.

In relation to what "exclusively Satanic symbols" mean, this does not mean an upside down star, because the upside down star was used for the Seal of Constantine, and the symbol for the city of Jerusalem, but an upside star with a goat's head in the middle would be considered an exclusively Satanic symbol. The Principle is not meant to be a rule but to guide rule-making, so it will not go into detail to be too inclusive or exclusive.

Hope this clarifies matters in relation to this issue.

Hmm...does this mean that promoting Satanism is acceptable so long as it kept to apologetics debate?

 

[Time2BCounted]

In relation to what "exclusively Satanic symbols" mean, this does not mean an upside down star, because the upside down star was used for the Seal of Constantine, and the symbol for the city of Jerusalem,

i would like to see a modern usage for the upside down star that is not satanic... Archaic is archaic, past is past, but today it is used pretty much exclusively satanicly

 

[Erwin]

Hmm...does this mean that promoting Satanism is acceptable so long as it kept to apologetics debate?

In a debate, when you are defending Satanism you are effectively promoting it, so in that context, although it is no ideal, it is acceptable to prevent stifling debate.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

In a debate, when you are defending Satanism you are effectively promoting it, so in that context, although it is no ideal, it is acceptable to prevent stifling debate.

How can a forum intended for Christian outreach allow that?

Stifle debate, if needs be, but you can't allow the promotion of Satanism in any context!

"- no anti-Christ messages or images "Either that means something or it doesn't. You've defined Satanism as anti-Christ. Does its being in GA stop it being anti-Christ?

 

[Jebediah]

In a debate, when you are defending Satanism you are effectively promoting it, so in that context, although it is no ideal, it is acceptable to prevent stifling debate.

Thank you. That clarifies things immensely, and sets a boundary I think everyone can be happy with.

 

[drstevej]

In a debate, when you are defending Satanism you are effectively promoting it, so in that context, although it is no ideal, it is acceptable to prevent stifling debate.

Is my avatar OK?

 

[scraparcs]

In a debate, when you are defending Satanism you are effectively promoting it, so in that context, although it is no ideal, it is acceptable to prevent stifling debate.

Should this be taken as a guide for how to moderate mentions of Satanism? Previously when rules existed with regards to no promotion of other religions, an apologetic defense of those religions was most of the time seen as promotion and thus deleted or actioned.

 

[Erwin]

Should this be taken as a guide for how to moderate mentions of Satanism? Previously when rules existed with regards to no promotion of other religions, an apologetic defense of those religions was most of the time seen as promotion and thus deleted or actioned.

If a no promotion rule is created by the congregation, that that would cover that situation. The difficulty is always what is promotion and what is not in the context of a debate - that is up to the subforums to regulate.

 

[chaoschristian]

i would like to see a modern usage for the upside down star that is not satanic... Archaic is archaic, past is past, but today it is used pretty much exclusively satanicly

1.

2.

 

[scraparcs]

Then basically we have to allow it in the context of debate unless prohibited by a subforum, which no matter because 90% of subforums don't have wikis anyway.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

what about sharing personal opinions thoughts and feelings, NOT promoting or teaching anything, but because ppl dont LIKE what you say they claim you are "glorifying Satan" or "promoting Satanism" in order to try to get you into trouble and silence you???? i run into that crap all the time and i want protection from that harassment. i am tired of people trumping up false claims over my personal OPINIONS and THOUGHTS and FEELINGS (just because they either don't like ME or don't agree with what i say) claiming it means I am "promoting Satanism" when i'm just talking about my private experiences as an individual WHICH are NOT part of any specific religion they are just what i experience and perceive.

 

[Erwin]

what about sharing personal opinions thoughts and feelings, NOT promoting or teaching anything, but because ppl dont LIKE what you say they claim you are "glorifying Satan" or "promoting Satanism" in order to try to get you into trouble and silence you???? i run into that crap all the time and i want protection from that harassment. i am tired of people trumping up false claims over my personal OPINIONS and THOUGHTS and FEELINGS (just because they either don't like ME or don't agree with what i say) claiming it means I am "promoting Satanism" when i'm just talking about my private experiences as an individual.

I see what you mean, but to allow promotion of Satanism under the guise of sharing personal experience would not be allowed if rules are made according to the 3rd Principle basically because people tend to promote things by sharing their personal experience about how good things are anyway, so it would not make sense to allow one and not the other, if you know what I mean. You would have to do it in a way that is not promotional or encouraging it.

Hope that helps.

 

[ravenscape]

Thank you Erwin! It's a huge relief to have a groundrule on this.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

But that's just my POINT Erwin. It is NOT that I am promoting Satanism. It is that other people levy that judgment against me FALSELY by lying about what my words mean and deliberately mischaracterising them. I try to explain and clarify but they ignore my clarifications and prefer and choose their spin and lies over the truth of my clarifications. (I'm talking about other members primarily here -- most Staff is far more objective and sensible about things)

So it is NOT me "promoting Satanism under a GUISE of sharing personal experience" -- though perhaps that is what THEY want to spin it into. It is rather a case of my sharing personal experiences, feelings, thoughts, perceptions and having others CLAIM that against me just so they can hurt me. I DON'T do it in a way that "promotes" or "encourages" but they INSIST on PAINTING it that way anyway. See what I'm saying? I want some kind of protection against that. It isn't right.

 

[Erwin]

But that's just my POINT Erwin. It is NOT that I am promoting Satanism. It is that other people levy that judgment against me FALSELY by lying about what my words mean and deliberately mischaracterising them. I try to explain and clarify but they ignore my clarifications and prefer and choose their spin and lies over the truth of my clarifications. (I'm talking about other members primarily here -- most Staff is far more objective and sensible about things)

So it is NOT me "promoting Satanism under a GUISE of sharing personal experience" -- though perhaps that is what THEY want to spin it into. It is rather a case of my sharing personal experiences, feelings, thoughts, perceptions and having others CLAIM that against me just so they can hurt me. I DON'T do it in a way that "promotes" or "encourages" but they INSIST on PAINTING it that way anyway. See what I'm saying? I want some kind of protection against that. It isn't right.

Until we can read people's minds, this is the best we can do at this stage - if we allow what you suggest, then others can do the same, and there is no way to know what people's true intentions are, therefore we have to find an objective basis that rules can be based on so moderators can moderate. I know this is not ideal for you, but as I stated, this is the best we can do at this time.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

But you're saying it's OK for people to social-engineer with spin and lies to abuse other people and harass them and they will always be considered "right" no matter what. So you're basically telling me I might as well take a flying leap -- never mind that I've supported this site with donations for nearly 2 years and made lots of friends here -- just because my perceptions and experiences fall outside the norm and the purview of "TC" (Theological Correctness).

Mind you, I totally understand the basic rule itself you are making and why -- that's not the issue. My issue is with how the rule will be ABUSED and MISUSED.

 

[Yyharssargyhaell]

How can a forum intended for Christian outreach allow that?

Stifle debate, if needs be, but you can't allow the promotion of Satanism in any context!

"- no anti-Christ messages or images "Either that means something or it doesn't. You've defined Satanism as anti-Christ. Does its being in GA stop it being anti-Christ?

How could we not? What is it when we allow just one party to promote their side and no one else is allowed to speak? Oh... um... damn, what is it.... fascism? Yeah, that's it. Everyone else is subordinate to our own thoughts and opinons, right?

I consider Satan enemy, but I'm willing to allow him to make his own moves and to see his own works. If I am confident and secure in my spirituality and comfortable with my God, then I can withstand anything someone else might throw at me and I can fight my own battles without just ignoring them or disallowing them to put up their own argument.

Y.

 

[Erwin]

But you're saying it's OK for people to social-engineer with spin and lies to abuse other people and harass them and they will always be considered "right" no matter what.

No, that would breached other rules that we have as well as Christian Principles 2 and 5:

2. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (No flaming, no trolling etc)

5. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."