Circumcision is Messed Up

[Near]

I don't think parents should have the right to cut off a piece of their child's body, for mostly aesthetic reasons, with very few "benefits" which are debated by the medical community itself. I think it's unethical.

I think it's fine for parents to cut off their kids hair. Why is a foreskin any different?
It's not like they're being abused.

 

[PureBliss]

While there might be a Biblical background for male circumcision, FGM is a no no and should not be mentioned. Amazinly, some people think that FGM has been eradicated completely without knowing that some People still do it secretly. As Christians, we should not inflict or cut Babies: both males and females, let them grow up and decide for themselves. It has so many devastating effects/impacts and creates negative feelings in a Child into adulthood..

 

[bcbsr]

I don't get circumcision at all... and to be honest, to me it seems messed up that Christians still practice it.

No matter how you justify it, it's the genital mutilation of an un-consenting child. If you have proof that it's not, love to hear it.

Also, if it's so important, why aren't people simply allowing their child to make that decision when they're older?

Does anyone know why Christian's are still practicing this? I'd really love the female perspective on this from Christian mothers as well.

Much the same could be said of infant baptism

 

[Tetra]

I think it's fine for parents to cut off their kids hair. Why is a foreskin any different?
It's not like they're being abused.

These wouldn't be analogous, as one is temporary and the other is a permanent body alteration.

 

[RaymondG]

Im still waiting to hear one circumcised male say they wish they weren't. I hear adult males who had it done anyway when they were adults.....Which is much worse than if it had been done as a baby. I also heard of issues that affects people in this thread, including the OP, that would not have been there had they gotten circ as a baby. I also know that a circ guy wanted tho thank their parents for the circ after discovering the issues of not being circ as a child.

Where are the circumcised men who were circumcised as babies, who regretted it?

Is it just women as uncircumcised men that feel this way?

 

[Near]

These wouldn't be analogous, as one is temporary and the other is a permanent body alteration.

Oh, but I'm glad you bring that up.
Both are temporary, for remember, these earthly bodies too will pass away, and decay, and then if we're in Christ we'll be resurrected from the dead as described by Paul.

1 Cor 15: 50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Both are temporary.

 

[Leevo]

Feel free to see some of the responses in the thread... seems everyone still loves to do it. I'm challenging that notion.

It was done to me, and I am not mad about it and plan on having it done to my kids if I ever have any... I would go so far as to say that 99.99% of men aren't mad either. I don't much care either way. I suggest that you take this same vigor you have for this subject and apply it to something much more important such as, abortion.

 

[Joshua_5]

While there might be a Biblical background for male circumcision, FGM is a no no and should not be mentioned. Amazinly, some people think that FGM has been eradicated completely without knowing that some People still do it secretly.

You make a very valid point: If circumcision were a bad thing, I don't think God would have commanded it for all men in Israel. Snipping off an unhygenic flap of excess skin that can cause and is prone to disease is very different to the barbaric practice of removing part of the anatomy responsible for sexual pleasure in women.

God commanded no such thing for women. Those opposing circumcision try to compare it to genital mutilation in women, because they won't accept the men and women are totally different. Often the women who oppose circumcision have been tricked into believing that the excess skin snipped off in men plays the same role as the sensitive parts in women, by those who want men and women to be the same.

 

[Tetra]

Snipping off an unhygenic flap of excess skin that can cause and is prone to disease

What?? lol First of all, if it was an unhygenic piece of skin which was prone to disease, humans wouldn't have evolved to keep it.

Second, would love some medical evidence for that statement.

 

[Tallguy88]

What?? lol First of all, if it was an unhygenic piece of skin which was prone to disease, humans wouldn't have evolved to keep it.

Second, would love some medical evidence for that statement.

We have wisdom teeth and an apendix though, so it's not unreasonable to feel that way.

 

[Near]

What?? lol First of all, if it was an unhygenic piece of skin which was prone to disease, humans wouldn't have evolved to keep it.

We have wisdom teeth and an apendix though, so it's not unreasonable to feel that way.

I couldn't help but notice how you've both mentioned human anatomy in terms of evolution and vestigial organs...

Both of your arguments are in error since we don't evolve to keep things. Even in evolution, it is the case that we do retain features that cause us our own harm. We are susceptible to disease regardless. Perhaps one could say that humans will evolve to a point in which they no longer possess certain aspects that make disease more likely including the foreskin.

As for wisdom teeth, there are many people who use them. It's just the case that not everyone has them come out properly and some have mouths that aren't large enough or teeth that are too large to fit. I've also read that the appendix helps with our immune systems. I think it's just atheists who like to point out "vestigial" organs in order to make it seem as though God doesn't exist since as they think, he wouldn't have made us with organs we have no use for.

I think one way to look at circumcision in the bible is this:
It's not supposed to be for a person's health. It was just part of God's old covenant. Even if it was bad for you, you'd have to live with it, and just accept it, because God wanted it that way. If God chose for men to chop off a toe, it's be the same thing, men would have to do it, even if it were physically harmful.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

I've never heard of Christians practicing FGM.

Islamic influence resulted in it appearing in Egypt and the Sudan, as early as the 12th century, but the Coptic hierarchy has been cracking down on it.

 

[Sketcher]

There's cleanliness - besides, how many men who were circumcised as babies recall the operation or miss their foreskin? Is there a scientific poll on the subject?

 

[Joshua_5]

What?? lol First of all, if it was an unhygenic piece of skin which was prone to disease, humans wouldn't have evolved to keep it.

Second, would love some medical evidence for that statement.

There was no evolution. God created. And if God created the body, He would also know the importance of each of its parts. I'm not saying excess skin wasn't useful before Adam sinned, and we didn't wear clothes, and the skin was there to protect the important parts from thorns etc. But we wear clothes now.

Do you really think God would have commanded the removal of the extra skin if it was so important? If you think its the same as the important parts removed in the FGM abomination, why didn't God command this for women in Israel. All Israelite men were without the unneeded flap for thousands of years, and their nation prospered.

Why is it only in recent years when men have become much more feminised that there's suddenly such a problem with this snipping of a little skin? Why is there no similar concern with cutting umbilical cords, or removing cancerous moles or unsightly birthmarks?

 

[PloverWing]

Why is it only in recent years when men have become much more feminised that there's suddenly such a problem with this snipping of a little skin?

The Wikipedia article on circumcision (History of male circumcision - Wikipedia) lists cultures who have practiced circumcision, and cultures who have not practiced it, going back to antiquity. And we have evidence from the Bible as well: Jews who practiced circumcision were living alongside people who did not practice it, hence the various controversies.

Whatever you think about circumcision, the disagreement is not about the modern feminist movement or the alleged feminization of society. People have disagreed about this for millennia.

 

[PanDeVida]

I don't get circumcision at all... and to be honest, to me it seems messed up that Christians still practice it.

No matter how you justify it, it's the genital mutilation of an un-consenting child. If you have proof that it's not, love to hear it.

Also, if it's so important, why aren't people simply allowing their child to make that decision when they're older?

Does anyone know why Christian's are still practicing this? I'd really love the female perspective on this from Christian mothers as well.

In the Old Testament God told Moses the the first born male must be circumcised

I don't get circumcision at all... and to be honest, to me it seems messed up that Christians still practice it.

No matter how you justify it, it's the genital mutilation of an un-consenting child. If you have proof that it's not, love to hear it.

Also, if it's so important, why aren't people simply allowing their child to make that decision when they're older?

Does anyone know why Christian's are still practicing this? I'd really love the female perspective on this from Christian mothers as well.

Are trying to say that God is messed up? Because it was God who ordered all first born Male babies to be Circumcised.

God is not messed up!

 

[Joshua_5]

The Wikipedia article on circumcision (History of male circumcision - Wikipedia) lists cultures who have practiced circumcision, and cultures who have not practiced it, going back to antiquity. And we have evidence from the Bible as well: Jews who practiced circumcision were living alongside people who did not practice it, hence the various controversies.

Whatever you think about circumcision, the disagreement is not about the modern feminist movement or the alleged feminization of society. People have disagreed about this for millennia.

There was never the opposition to its practice as there is today (except in the case of anti-Jewish action). Its one thing to disagree with the practice for yourself or family - its another to try and impose your view on someone else and his or her family.

 

[Joshua_5]

There's cleanliness - besides, how many men who were circumcised as babies recall the operation or miss their foreskin? Is there a scientific poll on the subject?

The anti-circumcision group argue that men who were circumcised at birth never know any different, which is why they generally support it. But if these men were really missing something imporant as the anti-circumcision crowd insist, would they or they wives really continue to support it? Most of those circumcised at an older age also support it, and these have the knowledge to know the difference and what is better, but their testimonies are also ignored by the anti-circumcision crowd. Even a number of uncircumcised men would have preferred to have been circumcised, and have their children circumcised as a result. The anti-circumcision movement tends to ignore fact (and the biblical commandment for all Israel in the Old Testament), and instead appeals to emotion, which is the reason their ranks include a number of well-meaning but misinformed Christians and women.

 

[Tetra]

In the Old Testament God told Moses the the first born male must be circumcised


Are trying to say that God is messed up? Because it was God who ordered all first born Male babies to be Circumcised.

God is not messed up!

If you read the thread, you'll see I have already answered this question here:
Circumcision is Messed Up

There are many things that God commanded in the OT, that if they occurred today we would question, and rightfully so.

 

[Tetra]

God created.

While this is off topic, who said God never created!?!?

Why is it only in recent years when men have become much more feminised that there's suddenly such a problem with this snipping of a little skin? Why is there no similar concern with cutting umbilical cords, or removing cancerous moles or unsightly birthmarks?

Wait, did you just use "feminized" as a pejorative? My mistake, didn't realize there was anything wrong with being feminine.

Also, when did it become more feminine to advocate for rights?

I have to be honest, don't get your comment here at all.