Church's Renting Space to Muslims

[tulc]

I believe you've have stated your position, a true Christian position, quite well. Not everyone will agree, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. From the Ten Commandments and the actions of the God of the Old Testament, we know God does not like idolatry. And the God of the Old Testament is also the God of the New Testament. Worshiping other gods is idolatry, and those that practice such are idol worshipers.

The bolded portion above? It also doesn't mean he's right either.
tulc(thought that should be pointed out)

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm sorry my answers don't seem to answer your questions

I shall point out where it appears that way to me.

I'm the kind of Christian who believes "A Church isn't a building, a Church is the people who go to the building."

You should be well aware of the impression you gave about Exodus 20:3. That impression was: it is not a sin to worship false gods. Given that, the above quote is meaningless. I have no idea what you consider to be "a Church."

I am well aquainted with the fact that Christians make up the body of Christ - that we are the Church rather than the building. That is not the issue.

I'm unclear how any of that means I'm afraid of Muslims.

OK. Does that mean you're not afraid? If so, then is it because you're trying to keep the peace? Help me out a little.

Technically if anyone appears to fear Muslims wouldn't it be the person who feels just their presence is a threat to the building you worship in?

If that is directed at me, I'd prefer you come straight out and say it. Whatever the case, it is not an accurate representation of my position. I do not consider Muslim worship a threat to my church building. I never said anything of the sort. Again, it's not the building that is the issue. When I realized that's what you thought, I tried to clarify back in post #18.

 

[tulc]

I shall point out where it appears that way to me.



You should be well aware of the impression you gave about Exodus 20:3. That impression was: it is not a sin to worship false gods.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me

And I don't have any gods before Him.

Given that, the above quote is meaningless. I have no idea what you consider to be "a Church."

the statement was:

"A Church isn't a building, a Church is the people who go to the building."

I have to be honest here, I'm not sure how the above can be called meaningless. The words are all spelled correctly (thanx spell check! ) none of the words I used appear to be used incorrectly. Perhaps you can point out which words you didn't understand?

I am well aquainted with the fact that Christians make up the body of Christ - that we are the Church rather than the building. That is not the issue. (emph. added)

...now I really don't understand. 2 points come to mind
1)you appear to have simply rephrased what I said. That would seem to imply you do understand what I said.
2) and the bolded portion? uhmmm that's what the thread is about.

OK. Does that mean you're not afraid? If so, then is it because you're trying to keep the peace? Help me out a little.

If a building isn't "THE CHURCH" then to my mind? the people who own the building should be free to loan/rent the building to whomever they like. That's it. That's my whole point.

If that is directed at me, I'd prefer you come straight out and say it. Whatever the case, it is not an accurate representation of my position. I do not consider Muslim worship a threat to my church building. I never said anything of the sort.

Sorry, I wasn't sure if that was your position and I din't want to imply it was, I guess i wasn't very clear about it. :o

Again, it's not the building that is the issue.

and yet, it's my impression that that is indeed what this thread is about

When I realized that's what you thought, I tried to clarify back in post #18.

Sorry! I'll go back and re-read your post.
tulc(needs more coffee)

 

[Resha Caner]

Name a sin for me, tulc.

 

[tulc]

Name a sin for me, tulc.

Not helping someone when it's in your power to do so.
tulc(your turn!)

 

[Resha Caner]

Not helping someone when it's in your power to do so.

Would a parent who doesn't feed their children qualify for that?

(your turn!)

I gave one earlier: worshipping false gods.

 

[tulc]

Would a parent who doesn't feed their children qualify for that?

...does this have something to do with renting a building?

I gave one earlier: worshipping false gods.

Ok, so we're even now.
tulc(could use some more coffee)

 

[Phinehas2]

Blackwater Babe,

Except, of course, that Muslims don't worship other gods, or idols for that matter (indeed, they are distinctly less prone to anything that could be seen as idolatry than most Christians). They worship the same God as us, they just worship Him in a different way and believe different things about Him. Sorta like the Jews.

Your view is potentially an Islamic view, but not a Christian one for the following reasons:

Early Quran verses speak of the Jews and Christians as being people of the book (the Torah and Injil) and verses such as
“Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are
submitters." (29:46) “
Verses such as these were at a time when Mohammed was trying to win over Jews and Christians to his thinking and revelations.
Later verses (remember the Quran is not laid out in chronological order later passages abrogate earlier ones) are such as:
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” – surah 9:5
..when Mohammed was in military style conflict with Jews and other Arabian tribes.
So your view is an early replaced Islamic one.

However, Christians believe Jesus Christ is the risen Son of God.
One God (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Son of God (Matthew 14: 33; 16: 16)
true God of true God, (John 17: 1-5)
of one essence with the Father, (John 10: 30)
Crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; I Corinthians 15: 3)
and was buried; (Luke 23: 53; I Corinthians 15: 4)
Rising on the third day according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1; 1 Cor. 15: 4)
And ascending into the heavens, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
He is seated at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
And in the holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord (Acts 5: 3-4)
the Giver of life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father, (John 15: 26)
Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, (Matthew 3: 16-17)

Islam does not.
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! – surah 9:30
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- surah 4:157

Christians believe Jesus Christ is the truth, the way and the life
John 14:6 “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Indeed, Christ said He fulfilled the OT law and prophets and didn’t change one iota of the OT law and prophets
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Matthew 5:17
One only has to look at the Quran to see how much of the OT has been changed.

The Allah of Islam isn’t the same as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit of Christianity, its not logically possible.
Even more than that, the Holy Bible warns that who doesn’t have the Son, doesn’t have the Father either, and who denies the Son has the spirit of anti-Christ.
1 John 2:22 “Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
“1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”

NB. Jesus Christ told the Jews .. “John 8:58-59 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
So if one says the Jews also deny Jesus, then one is looking at what the Jews said and not what Christ said. Christians look at what Christ said.

 

[Resha Caner]

...does this have something to do with renting a building?

I would have finished explaining the connection if you would have answered the question.

 

[tulc]

I would have finished explaining the connection if you would have answered the question.

...so it didn't have anything to do with renting a building out?
tulc(just trying to keep track of the OP)

 

[Resha Caner]

...so it didn't have anything to do with renting a building out?
tulc(just trying to keep track of the OP)

I was preparing to give you an example, and I wanted to put it in terms you would understand, so I needed to ask a few questions. But I'm not going to play this game anymore. Whether you are pretending not to understand me or whether the communication between us is seriously so bad that I can't get my point across, there is no point in continuing. Whatever the reason is, you continually misrepresent what I have said.

I stated my position in post #22. If you really have a question about that, PM me.

 

[tulc]

I was preparing to give you an example, and I wanted to put it in terms you would understand, so I needed to ask a few questions. But I'm not going to play this game anymore. Whether you are pretending not to understand me or whether the communication between us is seriously so bad that I can't get my point across, there is no point in continuing. Whatever the reason is, you continually misrepresent what I have said.

I stated my position in post #22. If you really have a question about that, PM me.

As you will.
tulc(is having some very good coffee right now)

 

[Archivist]

Not in our temples made with hands
God, the almighty, is dwelling;
High in the heav’ns his temple stands,
All earthly temples excelling;
Yet he who dwells in heav’n above
Deigns to abide with us in love,
Making our bodies his temple.

We are God’s house of living stones,
Built for his own habitations;
He fills our hearts, his humble thrones,
Granting us life and salvation;
Were two or three to seek his face,
He in their midst would show his grace,
Blessings upon them bestowing.

 

[tulc]

Not in our temples made with hands
God, the almighty, is dwelling;
High in the heav’ns his temple stands,
All earthly temples excelling;
Yet he who dwells in heav’n above
Deigns to abide with us in love,
Making our bodies his temple.

We are God’s house of living stones,
Built for his own habitations;
He fills our hearts, his humble thrones,
Granting us life and salvation;
Were two or three to seek his face,
He in their midst would show his grace,
Blessings upon them bestowing.

QFT!
tulc(dedicates his next cup of coffee to Archivist!)

 

[Phinehas2]

Whilst the church is the body of believers, Jesus still overturned the tables of traders in the outer temple courts saying God's house is a house of prayer. Jesus and His disciples throughout the NT proposed to others that their gods were not the true God. I wonder how western society would take it today if Christians went into some of the Muslim dominated areas of the UK and in response to cliams about Allah said your Allah isnt God.

No, this is up to God, if it produces fruit then do it, if not then dont. Sadly I suspect the liberal christian motive is to show we are all worshipping one god as Blackwater Babe suggested, and which I demonstrated cannot possibily be the case.

 

[tulc]

Whilst the church is the body of believers, Jesus still overturned the tables of traders in the outer temple courts saying God's house is a house of prayer. Jesus and His disciples throughout the NT proposed to others that their gods were not the true God. I wonder how western society would take it today if Christians went into some of the Muslim dominated areas of the UK and in response to cliams about Allah said your Allah isnt God.

No, this is up to God, if it produces fruit then do it, if not then dont. Sadly I suspect the liberal christian motive is to show we are all worshipping one god as Blackwater Babe suggested, and which I demonstrated cannot possibily be the case.(emph. added)

Did you happen to watch the video in the OP? Because that's not at all what the people renting the building to the other group said.
I have to say so far no one has shown why this is anyone elses business but the owners of the building,
tulc(well...except somehow someone not feeding their kids ties into it somehow)

 

[Archivist]

QFT!
tulc(dedicates his next cup of coffee to Archivist!)

Hope you enjoyed the coffee!

 

[tulc]

Hope you enjoyed the coffee!

I did very much thank you!
tulc(but not as much as your post!)

 

[Paxton25]

Not in our temples made with hands
God, the almighty, is dwelling;
High in the heav’ns his temple stands,
All earthly temples excelling;
Yet he who dwells in heav’n above
Deigns to abide with us in love,
Making our bodies his temple.

We are God’s house of living stones,
Built for his own habitations;
He fills our hearts, his humble thrones,
Granting us life and salvation;
Were two or three to seek his face,
He in their midst would show his grace,
Blessings upon them bestowing.

Finally, some who agrees with me that it was a mistake for Christians to build a Temple/Synagogue on every street corner after the original Temple in Jerusalem was torn down!

A church I was attending was having money problems. I jokingly suggested that with the design of the building, we could easily install a KFC/Taco Bell drive-thru to collect additional revenues; the idea was not well received.

The reality is that even the most hard-core Calvinists would have a hard time stomaching the idea of letting Muslims use their basement, let alone the 'sanctuary.'

On the other hand, I'm sure that some of the more liberal congregations that advocate religious pluralism would be happy to open its doors to Muslims.

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ''Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.''

 

[tulc]

Finally, some who agrees with me that it was a mistake for Christians to build a Temple/Synagogue on every street corner after the original Temple in Jerusalem was torn down!

A church I was attending was having money problems. I jokingly suggested that with the design of the building, we could easily install a KFC/Taco Bell drive-thru to collect additional revenues; the idea was not well received.

The reality is that even the most hard-core Calvinists would have a hard time stomaching the idea of letting Muslims use their basement, let alone the 'sanctuary.'

On the other hand, I'm sure that some of the more liberal congregations that advocate religious pluralism would be happy to open its doors to Muslims.

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ''Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.''

...uhmmmm...
tulc(never mind)