Church's Renting Space to Muslims

[tulc]

Hmm. Not much of a guideline. Maybe this isn't going anywhere.

Maybe not.
tulc(we could just go back to the OP?)

 

[Resha Caner]

Maybe not.
tulc(we could just go back to the OP?)

The OP asked for an opinion. I thought my opinion was obvious. But if it needs to be stated, I don't think the activities at Christian churches should be anything but Christian.

I was trying to explain why I thought that. Again, to be blunt, worshipping Allah is a sin (the 1st commandment). Knowingly allowing sin - in fact doing something that appears to endorse it - is unconscionable.

 

[lux et lex]

The OP asked for an opinion. I thought my opinion was obvious. But if it needs to be stated, I don't think the activities at Christian churches should be anything but Christian.

I was trying to explain why I thought that. Again, to be blunt, worshipping Allah is a sin (the 1st commandment). Knowingly allowing sin - in fact doing something that appears to endorse it - is unconscionable.

Some believe Allah is just another name for God. Perhaps that wouldn't be an issue for them.

 

[tulc]

The OP asked for an opinion. I thought my opinion was obvious. But if it needs to be stated, I don't think the activities at Christian churches should be anything but Christian.

I was trying to explain why I thought that. Again, to be blunt, worshipping Allah is a sin (the 1st commandment). Knowingly allowing sin - in fact doing something that appears to endorse it - is unconscionable.

Then you shouldn't rent your building to Muslims to worship in.
tulc(that was easy)

 

[Resha Caner]

Then you shouldn't rent your building to Muslims to worship in.

I wouldn't. But there are many things I would do for Muslims. I would clothe them, feed them, tend to them when they are sick, and visit them when they are in prison.

I do what I can to support a mission ministry to Muslims called POBLO.

I once worked with a Sikh (obviously not a Muslim), and the management at my company messed up and went over budget. My boss asked me for justification to fire the Sikh. I refused, because he was a good worker. He was fired anyway. So, I wrote recommendation letters for him and helped him get a job at another company.

But I will not let a Muslim worship at my church.

So, your answer seems to skirt the issue. Do you agree or disagree with what I said in post #22?

 

[Resha Caner]

Some believe Allah is just another name for God. Perhaps that wouldn't be an issue for them.

Please don't. Why are you trying so hard to justify this? There are things in this world that are wrong.

I am aware that "Allah" is the Arabic word for god. So, an Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Allah in his worship. But you know what I meant. The issue was not about renting a Christian Church to Arabic speaking Christians ... FYI we rent our school to Asian Indian Christians* for their service and I happen to know a Baptist Church that rents to a Chinese speaking congregation. That is not the issue.

* Edit: Actually my wife just told me we're not doing this anymore. Apparently there were some issues. Just thought I should say that in the interest of being honest.

 

[tulc]

I wouldn't. But there are many things I would do for Muslims. I would clothe them, feed them, tend to them when they are sick, and visit them when they are in prison.

I do what I can to support a mission ministry to Muslims called POBLO.

I once worked with a Sikh (obviously not a Muslim), and the management at my compant messed up and went over budget. My boss asked me for justification to fire the Sikh. I refused, because he was a good worker. He was fired anyway. So, I wrote recommendation letters for him and helped him get a job at another company.

But I will not let a Muslim worship at my church.

So, your answer seems to skirt the issue. Do you agree or disagree with what I said in post #22?

The OP asked for an opinion. I thought my opinion was obvious. But if it needs to be stated, I don't think the activities at Christian churches should be anything but Christian.

Disagree.

I was trying to explain why I thought that. Again, to be blunt, worshipping Allah is a sin (the 1st commandment). Knowingly allowing sin - in fact doing something that appears to endorse it - is unconscionable.

disagree.
tulc(there you go)

 

[Blackwater Babe]

Please don't. Why are you trying so hard to justify this? There are things in this world that are wrong.

I am aware that "Allah" is the Arabic word for god. So, an Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Allah in his worship. But you know what I meant. The issue was not about renting a Christian Church to Arabic speaking Christians ... FYI we rent our school to Asian Indian Christians for their service and I happen to know a Baptist Church that rents to a Chinese speaking congregation. That is not the issue.

My old church used to rent its space to a different denomination of Christianity... one that, theoretically, wasn't really worshipping the oine true God, at least, niot the correct way. Should that be a problem too?

Personally, I think I agree with Tulc. Let the people who own the building decide who they rent or sell it to.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

Given that Christianity has a long history of taking over non Christian worship sites and co-opting them, and later selling and demolishiong worship sites and allowing them be used for any number of comercial or agricultural uses, I'm really not sure why it should be Muslims where suddenly we go "nu uh!"

 

[Resha Caner]

My old church used to rent its space to a different denomination of Christianity... one that, theoretically, wasn't really worshipping the oine true God, at least, niot the correct way. Should that be a problem too?

I don't know your situation, but based on the way you described it, yes that would be a problem.

I simply don't understand the motivation. What possible reason could you have for allowing it? Is it the money?

I must also say that, with respect to Muslims, people seem to be incredibly naive about all this "community building" nonsense. I work with Muslims on a daily basis and the ones I know are the nicest people in the world. I have no need to "build a community" with them. We get along just fine. That is not the issue. If one of my co-workers was drunk, should I "build a community" by letting him drive home? If my neighbor was abusing his children, should I "build a community" by offering to let him do it in my house so the police won't get suspicious. These are one in the same thing (James 2:10).

Personally, I think I agree with Tulc. Let the people who own the building decide who they rent or sell it to.

I can't force people to use their property a certain way because in the U.S. renting to Muslims is not a crime. So they do get to decide how to use their property. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[Resha Caner]

Given that Christianity has a long history of taking over non Christian worship sites and co-opting them, and later selling and demolishiong worship sites and allowing them be used for any number of comercial or agricultural uses, I'm really not sure why it should be Muslims where suddenly we go "nu uh!"

BTW, I have a degree in history. Would you like me to give you a list of the property Muslims have taken away from Christians? Muslim law (the Sharia) does not give rights to non-Muslims. So, a Christian living in a Muslim country cannot testify against a Muslim in court. That means Muslims can steal from and even kill (and it has happened) Christians, and the Christian community has no recourse. Technically, those Muslims living in the U.S. are not Muslim because Sharia also prohibits a Muslim being governed by a non-Muslim.

An interesting fact is that the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church (the eastern equivalent of the Pope) is not allowed to own his church in Turkey. His historical church has been turned into a museum and he gets to rent a dinky little building from the Turkish government.

So, have Christians sinned? Of course they have. Are you suggesting we need to apply "an eye for an eye"? As Tevye says in Fiddler on the Roof, "Great. Then the whole world will be eyeless and toothless."

 

[Resha Caner]

disagree.

Wow. So worshipping other gods is not a sin. I'd like to know what Bible you read. I'd be curious to know how you even define the word "Christian."

But I think my earlier observation was the better one. This isn't going to go anywhere. I've said my piece and others can have the last word.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

I don't know your situation, but based on the way you described it, yes that would be a problem.

I simply don't understand the motivation. What possible reason could you have for allowing it? Is it the money?

I must also say that, with respect to Muslims, people seem to be incredibly naive about all this "community building" nonsense. I work with Muslims on a daily basis and the ones I know are the nicest people in the world. I have no need to "build a community" with them. We get along just fine. That is not the issue. If one of my co-workers was drunk, should I "build a community" by letting him drive home? If my neighbor was abusing his children, should I "build a community" by offering to let him do it in my house so the police won't get suspicious. These are one in the same thing (James 2:10).

I don't think you understand "community building" the same way they do.

I can't force people to use their property a certain way because in the U.S. renting to Muslims is not a crime. So they do get to decide how to use their property. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this sort of looks as though you are saying you think renting to Muslims SHOULD be illegal in the US. Please clarify?

 

[Faith.Man]

Wow. So worshipping other gods is not a sin. I'd like to know what Bible you read. I'd be curious to know how you even define the word "Christian."

But I think my earlier observation was the better one. This isn't going to go anywhere. I've said my piece and others can have the last word.

I believe you've have stated your position, a true Christian position, quite well. Not everyone will agree, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. From the Ten Commandments and the actions of the God of the Old Testament, we know God does not like idolatry. And the God of the Old Testament is also the God of the New Testament. Worshiping other gods is idolatry, and those that practice such are idol worshipers.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

Except, of course, that Muslims don't worship other gods, or idols for that matter (indeed, they are distinctly less prone to anything that could be seen as idolatry than most Christians). They worship the same God as us, they just worship Him in a different way and believe different things about Him. Sorta like the Jews.

 

[tulc]

Wow. So worshipping other gods is not a sin. I'd like to know what Bible you read. I'd be curious to know how you even define the word "Christian."

I'm the kind of Christian who disagrees with you.

But I think my earlier observation was the better one. This isn't going to go anywhere. I've said my piece and others can have the last word.

Nice talking to you!
tulc(wonders if it was something he said)

 

[Resha Caner]

I don't think you understand "community building" the same way they do.

I think that's obvious. They will reap what they sow.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this sort of looks as though you are saying you think renting to Muslims SHOULD be illegal in the US. Please clarify?

I have a lot of discussions where word choice becomes very important. So, pardon me for nitpicking, but my clarification is going to involve dissecting how you phrased your question.

You just said "renting", not "renting churches." I don't see any point in making renting to Muslims illegal in the general sense.

With respect to churches, it is no longer a government issue, so whether it happens in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world doesn't matter. Or at least it shouldn't. As I pointed out, there are governments in our world who legislate those matters. Anyway, within the church body of which I am a member, I expect it to be a rule that we would not rent to Muslims.

 

[Resha Caner]

wonders if it was something he said

What else would it be? All we have in an Internet forum is words.

But let me clarify. Did you make me angry? No. Did you sadden me? Yes.

I don't know you well enough to know what motivates you to take such a position. From the impression you've given so far, I wouldn't think it was the money. So, maybe you're afraid of Muslims and are trying to accommodate them. Or maybe you think "peace" is the best solution. I can tell you it is not if it means you give up God to make that "peace" (Matt 10:34, John 16:33). Faithfully speaking the truth of scripture is what will give you peace.

I'm the kind of Christian who disagrees with you.

Not from what I've seen. Rather, you're the type of person who avoids the issue. I will continue to answer questions people post here, but as I indicated earlier, I think I've said all I need to say.

 

[Resha Caner]

Except, of course, that Muslims don't worship other gods, or idols for that matter (indeed, they are distinctly less prone to anything that could be seen as idolatry than most Christians). They worship the same God as us, they just worship Him in a different way and believe different things about Him. Sorta like the Jews.

I hope you are aware that both Muslims and Jews deny Christ. If they deny the God proclaimed by Christianity, how can it be that they are worshipping the same god?

And why do you speak so favorably of Muslims, yet bash Christians? Are they not both sinful people who need the grace of the True God?

 

[tulc]

What else would it be? All we have in an Internet forum is words.

But let me clarify. Did you make me angry? No. Did you sadden me? Yes.

I don't know you well enough to know what motivates you to take such a position. From the impression you've given so far, I wouldn't think it was the money. So, maybe you're afraid of Muslims and are trying to accommodate them. Or maybe you think "peace" is the best solution. I can tell you it is not if it means you give up God to make that "peace" (Matt 10:34, John 16:33). Faithfully speaking the truth of scripture is what will give you peace.

I'm the kind of Christian who believes "A Church isn't a building, a Church is the people who go to the building." I'm unclear how any of that means I'm afraid of Muslims. Technically if anyone appears to fear Muslims wouldn't it be the person who feels just their presence is a threat to the building you worship in?

Not from what I've seen. Rather, you're the type of person who avoids the issue. I will continue to answer questions people post here, but as I indicated earlier, I think I've said all I need to say.

I'm sorry my answers don't seem to answer your questions, if you like I can try and explain whatevers confusing you.
tulc(always likes to be understood and understand)