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Churches must re-think Christmas?

James_Lai

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Hello.
Coming from a non-Christian country, to me this is all strange and new, even after many years in Canada. I of course assimilated and accepted and entered the mainstream Canadian culture and society.

However, because there are religious holidays, not like Victoria Day or Thanksgiving, there’s a very peculiar and weird feeling I get for Christmas or Easter.

It’s like cognitive dissonance upon cognitive dissonance upon cognitive dissonance.

What I mean is, okay, it’s the birthday of Jesus Christ. A historical figure, a religious teacher, the God, the Saviour. When we have a birthday of a very prominent historical or cultural or religious figure back in my country of birth, we do not gift gifts to each other. I absolutely don’t mind gifts for any reason though, it’s a nice thing. But It makes no sense to me. Give gifts to the birthday person! Nobody even thinks of it. Hello, it’s His birthday! If I come to my brother’s b-day party and receive a present from another guest, I’d be like, Hey, it seems you are a little confused… We may look alike, but not that much :)

How do you honour and value Jesus Christ? Truly. Because usually it’s what we show on a b-day to the b-day person…

What happened to churches? Why are they setting up trees and gift each other gifts and do a million other things that are contrary to honouring the Birthday Man and what He came for?

If churches miss the main figure in their religion, how can you characterize it??? Shouldn’t they say enough is enough and take a lead in establishing the reality of this holiday? I’m watching a Christian TV show and they’re all glowing and taking about Nativity and whatnot, smth about a drummer boy, missing again the whole thing by a mile. Shame!

Or the phrase “Merry Christmas!” - shouldn’t we be saying “May Lord Jesus have a happy Birthday!”? In Muslim countries, they never reduce the name of their Prophet to smth like “Chrismis”, they’ll always say “prophet Muhammad peace be upon him”.
 
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Norbert L

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It's really about teaching your children about how to give when they are at a very young age. How to process fact from fiction, fantasy from reality as they grow up. So that when they read the scriptures, they can begin to understand them.

Otherwise it's just a debatable theological theory on how valid this ancient tradition has become today. Which for a grown up Christian means buying the Christmas cards that best spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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dzheremi

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Hi James. The tradition of giving gifts is related in part to the life of St. Nicholas of Myra (born c. 280, d. 343), a 4th century Christian bishop in what is today Turkey, who is said to have left anonymous charitable gifts for the poor and the sick of his area. As I understand it, somewhere along the way as the story of St. Nicholas made its way throughout Europe, it was amalgamated into the figure of Father Christmas/'Santa Claus', and associated with the celebration of the Nativity. The tradition of receiving gifts for St. Nicholas' day (December 6th) would apparently continue until January 6th, which was traditionally the day that Eastern Christianity marked the Nativity (NB: only the Armenians still celebrate it on this day). It's just a guess on my part, but I would assume that this also helped strengthen the association between gift-giving and the Nativity.
 
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PloverWing

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Tonight, across North America and in many other places around the world, many liturgical churches will gather for a midnight service of worship in which we celebrate the Feast of the Nativity, the event in which God became Incarnate, which is the centerpiece of our faith.

If you have never experienced a "Midnight Mass", I encourage you to visit an Anglican or Catholic church tonight and worship with us, if COVID protocols in your area permit it.
 
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Rachel20

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Gifting is meant as a celebration of his birth. After all, the Lord was the greatest gift to mankind (John 3:16). But I do admit, the secular symbols are becoming a bit vexatious to me as I don't see nativity scenes or those depicting the true meaning much anymore (not a single one in my neighborhood amidst all the lights and reindeer and snowmen).
 
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topher694

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Hello.
Coming from a non-Christian country, to me this is all strange and new, even after many years in Canada. I of course assimilated and accepted and entered the mainstream Canadian culture and society.

However, because there are religious holidays, not like Victoria Day or Thanksgiving, there’s a very peculiar and weird feeling I get for Christmas or Easter.

It’s like cognitive dissonance upon cognitive dissonance upon cognitive dissonance.

What I mean is, okay, it’s the birthday of Jesus Christ. A historical figure, a religious teacher, the God, the Saviour. When we have a birthday of a very prominent historical or cultural or religious figure back in my country of birth, we do not gift gifts to each other. I absolutely don’t mind gifts for any reason though, it’s a nice thing. It makes no sense to me. Give gifts to the birthday boy!!! Nobody even thinks of it. Hello, it’s His birthday! If I come to my brother’s b-day party and receive a present from another guest, I’d be like, Hey, it seems you are a little confused… We may look alike, but not that much :)

How do you honour and value Jesus Christ? Truly. Because usually it’s what we show on a b-day to the b-day boy or girl…

What happened to churches? Why are they setting up trees and gift each other gifts and do a million other things that are contrary to honouring the Birthday Boy and what He came for?

If churches miss the main figure in their religion, how can you characterize it??? Shouldn’t they say enough is enough and take a lead in establishing the reality of this holiday? I’m watching a Christian TV show and they’re all glowing and taking about Nativity and whatnot, smth about a drummer boy, missing again the whole thing by a mile. Shame!

Or the phrase “Merry Christmas!” - shouldn’t we be saying “May Jesus have a happy Birthday”?
Do you go to church?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The great value of these celebrations is that they focus on the birth and the death of Jesus Christ, historical accuracy and other seasonal traditions notwithstanding.
 
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d taylor

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The only gift giving i know of in The Bible, that people give gifts to each other. Is when the two witness are killed and people over the earth give gifts to each other celebrating their deaths.
 
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trophy33

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What happened to churches? Why are they setting up trees and gift each other gifts and do a million other things that are contrary to honouring the Birthday Boy and what He came for?

Christmas is a festival of commemorating of Jesus' birth, joy, meditation, family assembling... so there are various habits put together.

Gifts (given mostly to children) are, indeed, the family celebration part. As God has given the gift to us, we give gifts to the ones we live with to symbolize our love to them.

Tree - this tradition originated in Lutheran Germany. The legend has it that Luther saw some tree in a winter forest shining in the sun as if covered with jewels. Who knows how it really happened, but in Germany people began to take trees at home and decorate them. From Germany, it spread to central Europe and from there to the rest of the world.
 
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Albion

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When we have a birthday of a very prominent historical or cultural or religious figure back in my country of birth, we do not gift gifts to each other. I absolutely don’t mind gifts for any reason though, it’s a nice thing. It makes no sense to me. Give gifts to the birthday boy!!! Nobody even thinks of it. Hello, it’s His birthday!
I think you have the idea of gift-giving on this particular Chrisitan holiday wrong. Note that this is the only such holiday for which that is a major feature. But no one is literally giving gifts to the baby Jesus. The gift-giving commemorates the gifts that the magi, the "wise men," brought to the newborn child, having traveled far in order to do it. That's referred to in the Bible's account.

So that's one act that reminds us of the circumstances of Jesus' birth, just like reproductions of the manger scene, representations of the Star of Bethlehem, and so on. There's nothing peculiar about this.

What happened to churches? Why are they setting up trees and gift each other gifts and do a million other things that are contrary to honouring the Birthday Boy and what He came for?
I'd rather you didn't refer to the Son of God as the "Birthday Boy," but the Christmas trees come from the use of an evergreen tree many centuries ago to make a point about Christianity to a group of pagans who actually worshipped deciduous trees in Northern Europe.

The evergreen was used to show them that our god does not 'die' in the winter like theirs, only to be reborn in the spring. Rather, our god lives eternally. It's not a feature of Christian worship services or devotions, to be sure, but just a symbol that generally is found in people's homes.

I’m watching a Christian TV show and they’re all glowing and taking about Nativity and whatnot, smth about a drummer boy, missing again the whole thing by a mile. Shame!
It sounds like you would do well to familiarize yourself with all these events and symbols, etc. before judging them to be shameful or ridiculous.
 
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Sketcher

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What I mean is, okay, it’s the birthday of Jesus Christ. A historical figure, a religious teacher, the God, the Saviour. When we have a birthday of a very prominent historical or cultural or religious figure back in my country of birth, we do not gift gifts to each other. I absolutely don’t mind gifts for any reason though, it’s a nice thing. But It makes no sense to me. Give gifts to the birthday person! Nobody even thinks of it. Hello, it’s His birthday! If I come to my brother’s b-day party and receive a present from another guest, I’d be like, Hey, it seems you are a little confused… We may look alike, but not that much :)
Jesus doesn't need material gifts from Earth, he rose from the grave and ascended to Heaven.

He did however, teach "it is more blessed to give than to receive." (Quoted in Acts 20:35)

What happened to churches? Why are they setting up trees and gift each other gifts and do a million other things that are contrary to honouring the Birthday Man and what He came for?
Christmas trees are not contrary to honoring Jesus. They are a decoration that celebrates the Christmas season. I'm not sure what else you had in mind that you consider to be contrary to honoring him that churches do, but I really haven't seen very much from churches in the Christmas season that is contrary to honoring him - in part because I would want nothing to do with a "church" that would dishonor him.

I’m watching a Christian TV show and they’re all glowing and taking about Nativity and whatnot, smth about a drummer boy, missing again the whole thing by a mile. Shame!
The Nativity is a remembrance of when Jesus was born. The Little Drummer Boy is a fictional song about visiting him at that time. Nothing shameful about either.

Or the phrase “Merry Christmas!” - shouldn’t we be saying “May Lord Jesus have a happy Birthday!”? In Muslim countries, they never reduce the name of their Prophet to smth like “Chrismis”, they’ll always say “prophet Muhammed may peace be on him”.
"Christmas" is the words "Christ's Mass" put together. It doesn't reduce his name, Christ is one of his titles.
 
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Paidiske

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I must admit, Covid's changed my mind on some of this a bit. I also used to think that a lot of the - for want of a better word - secular side of Christmas, the gifts, the decorations, the food, the parties, and all of it, was missing the point. And that it was in the worship services, the liturgies, Scriptures, and so on that we would make a meaningful connection with Christ, who is the point.

But Covid prompted us all to think about how we sustain faith in the home, when we can't gather; how we build traditions which carry both meaning and emotional weight, and so on. And I started to see that a Christmas tree might be one way that our people live Christmas without depending on a church and all its baggage to do it, and maybe having these traditions - even if their connection to the event we're commemorating is indirect, or has developed over time, or is now more about tradition than anything else - has value that perhaps I'd been underrating for years. Especially how people will often hold onto these home-based observances long after they've stopped coming to church.
 
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Jesus also had plenty to say to the Sadducees and Pharisees about their own traditions.

Mark 7:6-7
6He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’




Jer 10: 2-5
Thus says the Lord:

“Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
5They are upright, like a palm tree,
And they cannot speak;
They must be carried,
Because they cannot go by themselves.
Do not be afraid of them,
For they cannot do evil,
Nor can they do any good.”
 
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d taylor

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Churches need to rethink many areas, of course the most important would be their teaching on the receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.

The contemporary church, reminds me of a close resemblance, to the religious system setup in Israel. At the time Jesus came to Israel, to present Himself as the promised Messiah.

Which was basically a man guided system/institution very similar to what i see now.
 
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Albion

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Which was basically a man guided system/institution very similar to what i see now.
On the other hand, the New Testament, which most Christians consider to be the word of God, makes many references to the proper officials of the local (and regional) churches.

That fact would mean that "man guided" depends entirely on what the guidance is, not just that men are doing it.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Jesus also had plenty to say to the Sadducees and Pharisees about their own traditions.

Mark 7:6-7
6He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’




Jer 10: 2-5
Thus says the Lord:

“Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
5They are upright, like a palm tree,
And they cannot speak;
They must be carried,
Because they cannot go by themselves.
Do not be afraid of them,
For they cannot do evil,
Nor can they do any good.”

This is often mistakenly interpreted to include today's Christmas trees.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hello.
Coming from a non-Christian country, to me this is all strange and new, even after many years in Canada. I of course assimilated and accepted and entered the mainstream Canadian culture and society.

However, because there are religious holidays, not like Victoria Day or Thanksgiving, there’s a very peculiar and weird feeling I get for Christmas or Easter.

It’s like cognitive dissonance upon cognitive dissonance upon cognitive dissonance.

What I mean is, okay, it’s the birthday of Jesus Christ. A historical figure, a religious teacher, the God, the Saviour. When we have a birthday of a very prominent historical or cultural or religious figure back in my country of birth, we do not gift gifts to each other. I absolutely don’t mind gifts for any reason though, it’s a nice thing. But It makes no sense to me. Give gifts to the birthday person! Nobody even thinks of it. Hello, it’s His birthday! If I come to my brother’s b-day party and receive a present from another guest, I’d be like, Hey, it seems you are a little confused… We may look alike, but not that much :)

I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is that Christmas isn't Jesus' birthday, not really anyway. Christmas is often called Jesus' birthday but it's not really. Rather Christmas is a holy day and holy season on the traditional Christian liturgical calendar. If you have ever heard the song "The Twelve Days of Christmas" then you may (or may not) be confused. What are the twelve days of Christmas? It's the period of time between Christmas Day (December 25th) also more formally known as the The Feast of the Holy Nativity, and the Feast of Holy Epiphany (January 6th). Thus beginning on December 25th and ending on January 5th is the Season of Christmas, also called "Christmastide".

So it's not a birthday, but rather the celebration of Jesus' birth. That may seems like a silly distinction to make, but it's important here.

The practice of exchanging gifts is historically complicated. In the ancient Roman Empire there was a winter time of festivity known as the Saturnalia, which lasted from December 17th until December 23rd. It was a time of feasting, joviality, and was marked by several special customs. The most important was that during Saturnalia the roles of master and slave/servant were reversed, the masters of the house would serve the slaves during this time. It was also a time of giving gifts.

As the Roman Empire became Christianized, Saturnalia faded as a religious occasion devoted to the Roman god Saturn. But gift-giving at the end of December didn't go away, it simply was subsumed as a Roman folk practice, and later persisted in the various successor cultures to Rome. Since Christians celebrated Christmas at the end of December, it's not hard to see how giving gifts eventually got lumped together with Christmas. But this connection wasn't universal, and should be considered incredibly late.

And of course, once that already exists side-by-side, Christians have turned to our own Christmas themes to give gift-giving a particular Christmas significance. For example, we look at the story of the Magi who visited the Child Jesus and brought Him gifts of frankincense, gold, and myrrh. We also often point to the Incarnation as the greatest gift from God of all, the gift of His own Son to the world. And so by giving others gifts, we reflect the generosity of God in giving His own Son, born of the Virgin Mary.

How do you honour and value Jesus Christ? Truly. Because usually it’s what we show on a b-day to the b-day person…

What happened to churches? Why are they setting up trees and gift each other gifts and do a million other things that are contrary to honouring the Birthday Man and what He came for?

In Germany where the Christmas Tree originated, the practice goes back to the folk practice of having Paradise Trees. These were originally trees set up in public spaces in towns in accompaniment to Mystery Plays--specifically Mystery Plays about Adam and Eve's fall and ejection from Paradise/Eden. The Roman Catholic Church was not particularly fond of these sorts of things, and so Church officials tried to ban them in public squares. Germans simply decided to just bring these trees into their own homes.

It's worth noting that December 24th is also the traditional Feast Day of Adam and Eve.

Martin Luther and the early Lutherans are often credited with either transforming the Paradise Tree into the Christmas Tree, or at least with popularizing it. The tree was re-imagined in specifically Christ-centered themes. Christ was "hung on a tree", crucified on a wooden cross; the use of an evergreen tree symbolized the deathless life of Christ who died and rose again. Candles on the tree signified the light of Christ who is the "Light of the World". Etc.

As such the Christmas tree is a bonafide religious symbol.

If churches miss the main figure in their religion, how can you characterize it??? Shouldn’t they say enough is enough and take a lead in establishing the reality of this holiday? I’m watching a Christian TV show and they’re all glowing and taking about Nativity and whatnot, smth about a drummer boy, missing again the whole thing by a mile. Shame!

Or the phrase “Merry Christmas!” - shouldn’t we be saying “May Lord Jesus have a happy Birthday!”? In Muslim countries, they never reduce the name of their Prophet to smth like “Chrismis”, they’ll always say “prophet Muhammad peace be upon him”.

Christmas comes from Christ's Mass. The Mass (Liturgical Celebration) of [he Holy Nativity of] Jesus Christ.

While not as common in modern English, this form of contraction also occurs with the Feast of All Saints (November 1st) which has the archaic name of Hallowmas/Allhallowmas. Where "hallow" is simply the older English word for "saint" (it's related to the word "holy"). Hallowmas is the Feast of All Saints, just as the evening before All Saints (All Saints Eve) is called Hallowe'en (Hallow's Eve), which is on October 31st.

The wish of "merry" is simply another way of wishing someone a happy or joyous celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ our Lord. In the UK they say "Happy Christmas", the French say Joyeux Noel ("Joyous Nativity").

Though I'd be perfectly happy if we instead took a cue from the historic Paschal greeting "Christos Anesti! Christ is Risen!", and "Christ is born!" would make for a fitting Christmas greeting.

The biggest problem with Christmas in North America is the commercialization and "Hallmark Cardification" of the Holy Season. But it isn't very difficult to opt out of that. For example, I choose to focus on the time leading up to Christmas by observing the Church Calendar, in which case the Season of Advent precedes Christmas. Advent is a time of hopeful anticipation, expectation, and sober reflection.

The time of Advent is a two-fold observation, of Christ's first coming and also of His future second coming. As such in the Western Liturgical Calendar Advent functions as both a kind of beginning and ending of the Liturgical Calendar. Advent kicks off the Liturgical Year by bringing us into the time of the Prophets of Israel and the hope of Israel of the coming Messiah, (O Come O Come Emmanuel is actually an Advent hymn, not a Christmas hymn). That hope fulfilled in the birth of the Messiah, Jesus (Christmas). Christ's Epiphany--the visit of the Magi, His baptism in the Jordan River by John the Baptist. Followed by the Season of Lent, which remembers the forty days of Christ in the wilderness after His baptism and before the beginning of His public ministry. The final week of Lent, the week leading up to Easter is known as Holy Week which includes Maundy Thursday (the Last Supper), Good Friday (the crucifixion), Holy Saturday (Christ in the tomb). And then after that is the Great and Most Holy Day of Pascha, also called "Easter" in English. The chief celebration on the Christian calendar, the Feast of Feasts and the Day of Days: Jesus Christ risen from the dead. Easter Sunday begins the period of Eastertide or Paschaltide which includes Ascension Sunday (Jesus' Ascension) and ends with Pentecost. The Season of Pentecost begins with Pentecost Sunday. In general, following Pentecost, we enter what is called "Ordinary Time", not in the sense of something being "ordinary" but in the sense of counting ordinal numbers; thus "Second Sunday after Pentecost", "Third Sunday after Pentecost", etc. Ordinary Time concludes with Advent, as we look forward to Christ's return and the renewal of all things.

As such the Church Year takes us through the entire Gospel story: Christ's promised first coming, His birth, the major events recorded about His life, His death and resurrection, and the Church's continued and present hope in His coming again. We are, in a sense, living in "Ordinary Time" ever since the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on that original Pentecost two thousand years ago (Acts of the Apostles ch. 2).

Rarely the time between Pentecost and Advent has been called "Kingdomtide", as a way to thematically bring it together with the rest of the Church Year. That is, the Season of the Kingdom of God through the Church here and now in the world, working in the world and looking forward to Christ's return.

Christmas makes a lot more sense in the context of the traditional Christian Calendar as observed in all the traditional and historic churches.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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d taylor

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On the other hand, the New Testament, which most Christians consider to be the word of God, makes many references to the proper officials of the local (and regional) churches.

That fact would mean that "man guided" depends entirely on what the guidance is, not just that men are doing it.

Well of course God set up the church to be governed by men. But that has gotten of track but in a way that was expected. As even Israel got of track and brought in many practices that God did not approve of.
 
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