Church Suggestions?

[j3r3m3y]

A little background:

I was brought up Presbyterian. In my young adulthood I turned away from Christ. I married, divorced then moved in with my current fiance'. We have a daughter together and she has 6 children from a previous marriage.

My fiance' was raised in a Calvary Chapel church. She also attended a Christian Faith Fellowship church for a good part of her life.

Earlier this year we re-committed our lives to Christ and are eager to get our lives back on track and live in obedience to God's word.

We went to a local Calvary Chapel church and after a few weeks we felt that this church met both of our needs and we both felt very comfortable there both for ourselves and for the children.

We set up a meeting with the pastor and after talking with him about our situation he told us that since we were unmarried that we could not attend his church unless I moved out of the home.

We explained to him that we have a daughter together and all of the other children are as my own. Their father was abusive and is not involved in their lives. In fact two of her children know me as the only father they have ever had (they call me daddy as they know no other father).

We also explained to him that we are going to be married March 1st (we can not get married before then) and until then we are abstaining in order to be obedient to God's Word.

We told him that considering we are committing no sin, and considering how emotionally distressful it would be for the children, that I am not willing to move out of the house just to make our family situation "look good" to his congregation.

He then told us that we could not come to his church until we married.

This leaves us looking for a church. My fiance' has a problem with how structured the worship services are at the Presbyterian churches she has been to. She prefers a very contemporary service and I prefer a bit more traditional.

I was just wondering if anyone here might be able to recommend a demonination that would meet both of our needs, sort of a middle ground.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Hands&Feet]

It never ceases to amaze me how insensitive and legalistic professing Christian leaders can sometimes be. Law above mercy. Your situation is not perfect, but you are doing as good as you can within the confines of your apparent situation. Your story would be too "difficult" to sweep under his rug of self-righteous purity. Mercy triumphs over judjment.

God will lead you. Sadly, He probably already did, but someone passed on God's blessing rather than take the risk of scrutiny by what men would think. So sorry. We'll pray for God's continued direction.

 

[plum]

My home church is Presbyterian and I have found it to be riding the wonderful fine line between contemporary and traditional. I praise God for the passion our new pastor has for consulting the Lord on subjects such as your own.
I know it can be hard to decide on a church... but I recommend you not rule out an entire denomination because of one or two experiences. I think it is simply a choice between what church body and Christian community will be able to minister to you as a couple. No matter WHAT the denomination is. So I suggest shopping around, maybe picking up a book like
"Finding a Church You Can Love and Loving the Church You'Ve Found and seeing if it has any advice for you important decision.

Most of all, pray! God will give you what you ask for.

 

[Preachers12]

A little background:


We set up a meeting with the pastor and after talking with him about our situation he told us that since we were unmarried that we could not attend his church unless I moved out of the home.

We explained to him that we have a daughter together and all of the other children are as my own. Their father was abusive and is not involved in their lives. In fact two of her children know me as the only father they have ever had (they call me daddy as they know no other father).

We also explained to him that we are going to be married March 1st (we can not get married before then) and until then we are abstaining in order to be obedient to God's Word.

We told him that considering we are committing no sin, and considering how emotionally distressful it would be for the children, that I am not willing to move out of the house just to make our family situation "look good" to his congregation.

He then told us that we could not come to his church until we married.

This leaves us looking for a church. My fiance' has a problem with how structured the worship services are at the Presbyterian churches she has been to. She prefers a very contemporary service and I prefer a bit more traditional.

I was just wondering if anyone here might be able to recommend a demonination that would meet both of our needs, sort of a middle ground.

Thanks for the help!

J3r3m3y, Peace be with you.

That is really sad. I am sorry to hear that.

When my wife and I began our marriage preparation course with the Pastor (a priest) of our parish Church, we were living together. And we were abstaining. He cautioned us about the temptations we would undergo, but rather than condemn us, he trusted us and welcomed us. He was (and still is) the priest that my wife and I see regularly for Confession, so there was nothing we could hide from him.

Once during our marriage prep, we both Confessed to him (separately, of course), that we had fooled around some, though we did not have intercourse. The point is, HE KNEW EVERYTHING and still welcomed us. He congratulated us on not giving in completely to the temptation, and, through the Sacrament of Confession, absolved us of the sin and bestowed graces from God to help us maintain our abstinancy. And we did.

Your case is not completely the same as mine since there is a prior marriage issue involved which my Church would require be annuled. But solely on the issue of co-habitating prior to marriage in abstinance, I know where you are.

I hope it works out for you.

God Bless,
P12

 

[Godisgood]

You were told you could not attend church there? Or could not join as a member while living together?

If sinners can't come to church, wouldn't they all be empty?
I'm a member of a So. Bapt. congregation. Traditional and comtemporary mix. Our pastor told us, when he became our pastor, we weren't baptist, but bapti-costal.

 

[j3r3m3y]

You were told you could not attend church there? Or could not join as a member while living together?

If sinners can't come to church, wouldn't they all be empty?
I'm a member of a So. Bapt. congregation. Traditional and comtemporary mix. Our pastor told us, when he became our pastor, we weren't baptist, but bapti-costal.

He told us that we could not attend and "engage in fellowship" with his congregation.

We were pretty shocked, I was disappointed at first, but now realize it is obviously for the best and we will find a church that fits us.

 

[seebs]

Well, if you want something traditional (~350 years old) but not structured, try Religious Society of Friends. http://www.quaker.org/

I would bet they'll let you attend.

 

[BBAS 64]

A little background:

I was brought up Presbyterian. In my young adulthood I turned away from Christ. I married, divorced then moved in with my current fiance'. We have a daughter together and she has 6 children from a previous marriage.

My fiance' was raised in a Calvary Chapel church. She also attended a Christian Faith Fellowship church for a good part of her life.

Earlier this year we re-committed our lives to Christ and are eager to get our lives back on track and live in obedience to God's word.

We went to a local Calvary Chapel church and after a few weeks we felt that this church met both of our needs and we both felt very comfortable there both for ourselves and for the children.

We set up a meeting with the pastor and after talking with him about our situation he told us that since we were unmarried that we could not attend his church unless I moved out of the home.

We explained to him that we have a daughter together and all of the other children are as my own. Their father was abusive and is not involved in their lives. In fact two of her children know me as the only father they have ever had (they call me daddy as they know no other father).

We also explained to him that we are going to be married March 1st (we can not get married before then) and until then we are abstaining in order to be obedient to God's Word.

We told him that considering we are committing no sin, and considering how emotionally distressful it would be for the children, that I am not willing to move out of the house just to make our family situation "look good" to his congregation.

He then told us that we could not come to his church until we married.

This leaves us looking for a church. My fiance' has a problem with how structured the worship services are at the Presbyterian churches she has been to. She prefers a very contemporary service and I prefer a bit more traditional.

I was just wondering if anyone here might be able to recommend a demonination that would meet both of our needs, sort of a middle ground.

Thanks for the help!

Keep praying and searching he will lead you!

"he told us that since we were unmarried that we could not attend his church unless I moved out of the home."



I'm sorry you had to under go such legalistic JUNK!! That congregation should fire this person.

BBAS

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Sorry you had to endure that.

You might also try the United Methodists http://www.umc.org/index.asp

Some congregations are more liberal or more conservative than others but we peacefully coexist most of the time.

 

[Reformationist]

Earlier this year we re-committed our lives to Christ and are eager to get our lives back on track and live in obedience to God's word.

Congratulations.

We set up a meeting with the pastor and after talking with him about our situation he told us that since we were unmarried that we could not attend his church unless I moved out of the home.

We explained to him that we have a daughter together and all of the other children are as my own. Their father was abusive and is not involved in their lives. In fact two of her children know me as the only father they have ever had (they call me daddy as they know no other father).

We also explained to him that we are going to be married March 1st (we can not get married before then) and until then we are abstaining in order to be obedient to God's Word.

Is this due to waiting for prior divorce proceedings to be finalized?

He then told us that we could not come to his church until we married.

So don't go back until you are married.

I was just wondering if anyone here might be able to recommend a demonination that would meet both of our needs, sort of a middle ground.

Thanks for the help!

Well, I'm not a big fan of Calvary Chapel churches but if you feel that that church already meets your needs spiritually then you should stick it out and go back when you've been married.

Many of the other posters seem to be focusing on how legalistic the Pastor has been but I encourage you to try to see it from his perspective. He is the spiritual leader of a body of believers and may feel that overlooking the fact that you live together as husband and wife would send the message that that should be accepted by the church body. The truth is, it shouldn't be accepted. Again I have to ask, why the delay? My wife and I were living together prior to getting married and one day I felt so convicted of the ungodly way we were living that I asked her if she would be willing to get married that week. We got married 3 days later. I felt that I could not, in good conscience, continue to live with her as husband and wife for another week without getting married. We had planned to get married anyway but I could not put it off. It's the effect that the truth has on us. We cannot deny it. We can ignore it but we cannot deny it.

God bless

God bless

 

[MattMMMan17]

I can't believe that pastor did that. My cousin is going through the same thing, without the previous marriage though. For now they live together as brother and sister, until they are properly married. They also have a child. If you like traditional, I would suggest a Catholic Church. It's about as traditional as you can get, considering it's been around for near 2,000 years. As far as your wife is concerned, well, newer isn't always better. God bless.

 

[BAChristian]

My wife and I were living together prior to getting married and one day I felt so convicted of the ungodly way we were living that I asked her if she would be willing to get married that week.

That's kinda cool...

 

[Foundthelight]

I don't understand where that pastor is coming from. Does he only want to minister to the outwardly religious? Did he forget who Jesus reached out to?
Has he forgotten that Jesus rejected the religionists?

You may not meet the requirements for church leadership, but you certainly can take part in Christian fellowship.

I left the Bible Church I was attending because of a similar attitude among the members. I believe that once this sort of attitude takes root in a church it becomes pervasive. They may have a service you enjoy, but the basic Christian love and fellowship will be lacking. A church without a spirit of love and acceptance is lacking the Holy Spirit and not worth attending.

 

[eldermike]

Sometimes as Church leaders we get caught between a rock and a hard place. Although I disagree with the decision of not letting you attend I still have some comments on the situation. But written in Christian love.

We had a young unsaved couple attending our church. They were living together when they first came, and they were welcomed as visitors. As they responded to God's call on their hearts they became born again and asked to join.

It was decided that they would have to marry or move into separate living arrangements before joining. They agreed and were married.

They could have refused and we would be forced to tell them they could not join.

Why is this? Because this is what we teach! We teach young people these biblical principals. If we are not willing to live these principles then we have no right to teach them.

Protecting the flock requires principals, both in words and in actions.

Sometimes issues apear to be judgmental or coming from a lack of forgiveness. However, You can't overlook sound biblical principles, the outcome can be a fellowship that looks just like the world, with no foundation from which to teach.

There are times when a decision boils down to a simple formula; the application of what is taught.

If you like a fellowship then you have to decide to live what is taught there. Otherwise, you will risk putting the leadership in a no-win situation.

Eldermike

 

[j3r3m3y]

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Is this due to waiting for prior divorce proceedings to be finalized?

Yes, it is.

So don't go back until you are married.

Well, we have decided not to go back at all.

Well, I'm not a big fan of Calvary Chapel churches but if you feel that that church already meets your needs spiritually then you should stick it out and go back when you've been married.

We thought it met our needs. We now feel that we dont want to be part of a church that would turn us away when we need help the most.

Many of the other posters seem to be focusing on how legalistic the Pastor has been but I encourage you to try to see it from his perspective. He is the spiritual leader of a body of believers and may feel that overlooking the fact that you live together as husband and wife would send the message that that should be accepted by the church body. The truth is, it shouldn't be accepted. Again I have to ask, why the delay? My wife and I were living together prior to getting married and one day I felt so convicted of the ungodly way we were living that I asked her if she would be willing to get married that week. We got married 3 days later. I felt that I could not, in good conscience, continue to live with her as husband and wife for another week without getting married. We had planned to get married anyway but I could not put it off. It's the effect that the truth has on us. We cannot deny it. We can ignore it but we cannot deny it.

God bless

God bless

I know how you felt. Were it not for a mandatory waiting period imposed by the court system in resolving her divorce then we would be maried today.

While I freely admit that we were living for ourselves and making a great many mistakes the point is what we are doing now. He gave the same response accusing us of "living together as husband and wife". He even went as far as to accuse us of committing adultery because my fiance` is still technically married and we are living under the same roof. I find this to be completely unscriptural.

While I see your point on the surface it is a shallow argument. We are abstaining sexually and, therefore, can not be accused of living as husband and wife. In addition we see ourselves as living together as good parents to our children who need both their mother and father.

Furthermore, even if we were committing some sin (which I am sure we are not, if you can show me that we are I would be happy to see it) is fellowship only for those without sin? I just don't follow that logic.

Reformationist, are you a sinner? Should your sins keep you feom fellowship with fellow Christians?

"10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[1] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matthew 10-13

Any church that will turn people away because they are sinners is no church I want to fellowship with.

 

[Reformationist]

Well, we have decided not to go back at all.




We thought it met our needs. We now feel that we dont want to be part of a church that would turn us away when we need help the most.

But the Pastor did help you. He told you what you needed to do. It sounds like you didn't like that. I will tell you that I see a lot of this in the Christian community. People have their behavior addressed by their church leaders in a way they don't care for so they decide it's time for a new church.

While I freely admit that we were living for ourselves and making a great many mistakes the point is what we are doing now. He gave the same response accusing us of "living together as husband and wife". He even went as far as to accuse us of committing adultery because my fiance` is still technically married and we are living under the same roof. I find this to be completely unscriptural.

Well, you'd be wrong. It is completely Scriptural. You are committing adultery. Regardless of whether you're having intercourse you still have an inappropriate relationship with another man's wife. That's adultery.

While I see your point on the surface it is a shallow argument. We are abstaining sexually and, therefore, can not be accused of living as husband and wife.

Sorry bro but I would have to strongly disagree. Men and women can live together as roomates and that would not be adultery. Living together as a couple, regardless of whether you're having intercourse, is the determining factor. If the defining characteristic was whether a man and a woman were having sex then, by your reasoning, people who are married but are not very sexual in nature and subsequently have sex very infrequently wouldn't be considered husband and wife.

In addition we see ourselves as living together as good parents to our children who need both their mother and father.

I'm sure you are good parents. I don't think the Pastor said otherwise. At least I didn't get that.

Furthermore, even if we were committing some sin (which I am sure we are not, if you can show me that we are I would be happy to see it) is fellowship only for those without sin?

Of course it's not just for those who don't sin. Everyone sins. The issue isn't whether you sin. It's that you are living a lifestyle of sinfulness that the church is obligated to cast off. Your Pastor is required, by the oracles of God and the ordinances of your church leadership to tell you what he told you.

Reformationist, are you a sinner?

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Of course I am.

Should your sins keep you feom fellowship with fellow Christians?

No, nor do they. However, I would be a poor brother indeed if I did not tell you that you were living a lifestyle of sinful adultery. I don't think you less worthy than anyone else of the blessing of holy matrimony. I am just telling you the truth in love. Don't let your pride blind you.

Any church that will turn people away because they are sinners is no church I want to fellowship with.

Okay. But that's not why he turned you away. You should take some time and pray about this and ask the Lord to help you get over the bitterness.

God bless

 

[j3r3m3y]

Well, you'd be wrong. It is completely Scriptural. You are committing adultery. Regardless of whether you're having intercourse you still have an inappropriate relationship with another man's wife. That's adultery.

Show me where it says this in scripture. I have searched high and low and I can not find a defintion of adultery that does not include a sexual relationship. If we are not involved sexually then it is not adultery. You claim your point of view to be scriptural, please cite references.

a·dul·ter·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-dlt-r, -tr)
n. pl. a·dul·ter·ies
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.

Sorry bro but I would have to strongly disagree. Men and women can live together as roomates and that would not be adultery. Living together as a couple, regardless of whether you're having intercourse, is the determining factor. If the defining characteristic was whether a man and a woman were having sex then, by your reasoning, people who are married but are not very sexual in nature and subsequently have sex very infrequently wouldn't be considered husband and wife.

Show me where it says living together is a sin. I see may places in the Bible where it talks about sin, sexual immorality and adultery but I dont see cohabitation listed as a sin.

Of course it's not just for those who don't sin. Everyone sins. The issue isn't whether you sin. It's that you are living a lifestyle of sinfulness that the church is obligated to cast off. Your Pastor is required, by the oracles of God and the ordinances of your church leadership to tell you what he told you.

Once again, demonstrate this lifestyle of sinfulness. Show me the sin.

Were I to do things different of course I would not have had a sex with her before we were married. I would not have fathered her child before we were married. It is as if we were living with blindfolds on for a long time and now that they have been removed we see the changes we need to make to bring us back to God. Getting married is one of those things and we intend to do that as soon as legaly possible.

I have spent much time in prayer regarding this situation and I can not see that God wants me to move out of the home and confuse our young children just for the sake of appearence. If you can show me, in scripture, where I am sinning then I will reconsider my position but I have looked long and hard and I don't see how there is any sin.


[/QUOTE]

 

[pmarquette]

go to www.cfaith.com
look up your city [ church finder ]
set up apt with pastor there
see if he will accept you ....

some times , a pastor will ask you to separate for 2 weeks to a month prior to marriage [ living together ] as a final box in the check list ... speak now or forever zip your lip ....

that piece of paper is a covenant before God , not to be taken lightly .... and if there are any doubts , flaws , or mountains , they need to be resolved .. asap.

some pastors will not marry couples who are not born again .... if you cannot commit to and submit to God , how can you submit and commit to a husband or wife ?

except God is part of the union , you future is bleak and bumpy at best ....

if you are not welcome , seek solstace some where else ..... four square gospel , word of faith , assemblies of God , where God's word is preached simply , concisely , and revealed to you each week , that it might be a lamp unto your feet and a light unto your path ...

 

[Reformationist]

You sound like all you're looking for is someone to tell you that that Pastor was a bad Christian who shouldn't have done what he did. It sounds like you don't want to hear any other opinion or you start to get defensive.

Show me where it says living together is a sin.

I didn't say living together was a sin. In fact, what I said was, "Men and women CAN live together as roommates and that would NOT be adultery." There is a difference between the completely platonic relationship of roommates and the relationship of a man and woman who live together as a couple but refrain from sex. The biblical context defining adultery is to have an inappropriate relationship with another's spouse. Even if you do this in your mind it's still sinful.

I see may places in the Bible where it talks about sin, sexual immorality and adultery but I dont see cohabitation listed as a sin.

Again, I never said cohabitating was a sin.

Once again, demonstrate this lifestyle of sinfulness. Show me the sin.

Are either you or your fiance still officially married? If so, and you live together as a couple that's adultery. Adultery is a sin.

Were I to do things different of course I would not have had a sex with her before we were married. I would not have fathered her child before we were married. It is as if we were living with blindfolds on for a long time and now that they have been removed we see the changes we need to make to bring us back to God. Getting married is one of those things and we intend to do that as soon as legaly possible.

Great. I encourage you to stick with that. Believe me, I knew exactly where you're coming from. I was in pretty much the same type of relationship. I was just trying to offer you some brotherly advice on how to regard the Pastor and your situation since every other poster seemed to want to call the Pastor's Christianity into question. Even you, who claimed that the church was fully meeting your needs, all of a sudden claimed to need to find another church because the guy told you you were living in sin.

I have spent much time in prayer regarding this situation and I can not see that God wants me to move out of the home and confuse our young children just for the sake of appearence.

Well, I'd say it's a bit more than just for the sake of appearance but you do what you feel led to do.

If you can show me, in scripture, where I am sinning then I will reconsider my position but I have looked long and hard and I don't see how there is any sin.

I'll try it with two questions and then let you pray and judge for yourself.

Who's still married, you or your fiance?

Do you feel that it's appropriate to be cohabitating, AS A COUPLE, with another person's spouse?

I want you to understand that any input I offer I offer in a spirit of brotherly love and compassion. I can relate to the struggle you experienced because I experienced it as well. What I've told you I've told you to assist you making your decision, not attack you.

God bless

 

[j3r3m3y]

You sound like all you're looking for is someone to tell you that that Pastor was a bad Christian who shouldn't have done what he did. It sounds like you don't want to hear any other opinion or you start to get defensive.

Actually I was just looking for ideas about different churches to look at. You decided to turn this into a debate, not that I mind. Honest and intelligent debate keeps the mind sharp.

Are either you or your fiance still officially married? If so, and you live together as a couple that's adultery. Adultery is a sin.

Your second statement is correct. Adultery is a sin. Intercourse is a nessicary element of adultery.

www.dictionary.com -
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.

Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary-
Adultery - conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a great social wrong, as well as a great sin.


http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary (Websters Dictionary)
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

Do you feel that it's appropriate to be cohabitating, AS A COUPLE, with another person's spouse?

I beleive this is the heart of the matter. While you may not feel it is APPROPRIATE, that does not make it sinful. I agree that it is not proper nor appropriate. I also feel moving out of the the house for 2 months and confusing my 5,4, and 2 year old children is not "appropriate". I have the great joy of choosing between these two "inappropriate" options.

I would rather do right by my children than do something to please a group of people that really shouldn't be judgeing me anyway. The only sin you can cite is adultery and I have shown that it isn't.

The truth is my living situation gives the appearance of something "wrong" and that is enough for you and this pastor to begin throwing stones. And I am not singling you out. I know there are many others that would look down on me based on this decision.

Thankfully it isnt anyone on this earth that I have to answer to. I have scoured the scripture (you still haven't shown me that this is scrpiturally wrong unless you assume it is adultery, I havent accepted that and have given evedience to the contrary) and I have spent much time in prayer over this issue. I put myself in an imperfect situation and I have only imperfect solutions to resolve it. I have no doubt that I am not in sin and I only have to answer to Him at the end of the day.[/QUOTE]

I want you to understand that any input I offer I offer in a spirit of brotherly love and compassion. I can relate to the struggle you experienced because I experienced it as well. What I've told you I've told you to assist you making your decision, not attack you.

God bless

As my rugby friend used to say "No worries mate!". I have a thicker skin than that and I see that your thoughts are related in a respectful and intelligent manner. I am always open to intelligent debate.

That being said I simply feel that your arguments are based on your personal feelings and not in scripture. I understand that you can relate but with all due respect my situation is significantly different and what worked for you does not apply in my case.

P.S. I gave my blessings away before I realized that I needed them for a custom avatar. I would like to use a picture of me and my beautiful fiance' so if anyone has a blessing to spare I could use it and I promise to pass it back out Thanks.