Church of the Nativity

VOW

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To Coastie:

Why can't the Israelis just WAIT? Allow anyone to leave the Church, allow food and water and medicines to enter. It's my understanding it isn't a hostage situation so much by the Palestinians than by the Israelis, at this point.

The bullets won't last forever.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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amie

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Originally posted by Dave Ulchers

Nice scenario. Problem is, no one has been shooting from inside the building according to the people inside the building, which includes priests and nuns, etc. who wouldn't lie about that sort of thing. And the army won't let the media any where near the place to obtain an impartial viewpoint anyway.
Dave,
you don't think that people can be somehow FORCED into a lie? I am not saying they are lying, I don't know....I am obviously not there, but I am saying the potential is there...
 
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Originally posted by coastie
You will stick to your views no matter what you hear. However, MSNBC said yesterdsay morning that the violence at the Church of the Nativity started when Israelies were taking gun fire from the bell tower of the church. You may deny this fact all you want, which will only make your argument seem even more one-sided.[/B]
:confused: I myself mentioned that the Israeli army was making this claim in post #30. This hasn't been confirmed as a fact by an independant party, and has been denied by a Roman Catholic priest inside the Church. I'm willing to wait and see what is determined to be factual, but the fact that the Israeli army refuses to let any reporters confirm what is really going on makes me suspicious.

We'll see who is lying and who is telling the truth one the situation resolves itself. Unless all the people inside the church end up dead, in which case we'll never know.

Amie, how can you agree to call a group of souls you have never met "terrorists" in one post, and call me judgemental in the next? :scratch:
 
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Here's the latest update from the BBC. A monk has been critically wounded, and Israel has rejected a plea from the Francisan Order to end the seige peacefully which the words "stop bothering us"

The Franciscan order has asked Israel to allow some of the 200 or so armed Palestinians sheltering in Bethlehem's Church of Nativity to leave unharmed.

The Roman Catholic order in the Holy Land also called for water and electricity to be urgently supplied to its monks inside the complex, which has been blockaded since 2 April.
About 200 armed Palestinians and up to 40 monks and civilians are surrounded The complex is shared by Christian churches which revere it as the reported birthplace of Jesus Christ

Israel, whose army has sealed off the complex in pursuit of suspected militants among the Palestinians, reportedly rejected the appeals immediately.

But the army itself has hinted that a peaceful compromise may be found to the stand-off, in which one man has been killed and three wounded, including a monk.

Reminder from history

"We urgently demand that the Palestinians be allowed to leave the monastery, with guarantees that their lives will be saved, in order to prevent a humanitarian disaster and a futile massacre that will only serve to increase the hatred between the two communities," said Father Giacomo Bini, the head of the Franciscan order.

The Franciscans' spokesman in the Holy Land, Father David, appealed to Israeli Jews for help, reminding them that his order, founded at Assisi in Italy, had once helped Jews fleeing Nazi persecution.

"We remind them of the heroism of the Franciscans, who saved many Jews during the Shoah [Holocaust], taking them in to their friaries, particularly in Assisi," he said.

According to the Vatican news agency Fides, however, the Israeli Government rejected the appeals with the words: "Stop bothering us".

At the same time, an Israeli army spokesman, Brigadier General Ron Kitrey, has said that he hopes for a deal "that would be beneficial to both sides".

Israel's official position remains that any suspected militants inside the church and surrounding monasteries must stand trial in Israel.

Monk wounded

An Armenian monk at the complex was seriously wounded by an Israeli bullet on Wednesday.

An army spokesman admitted responsibility, but stressed that the monk, who is now in hospital in west Jerusalem, had been dressed in civilian clothes and "looked armed".

The Palestinians took shelter at the Church of Nativity site as tanks rolled into Bethlehem in pursuit of militant groups responsible for suicide bombings and other attacks on Israel.

The Vatican has voiced grave concern about the situation, warning Israel to respect the sanctity of religious buildings.

In an exchange of gunfire on Monday, a Palestinian was killed and two Israeli border policemen wounded while a grenade is believed to have sparked a fire which damaged a meeting hall.

Some damage to the site's churches has also been reported.

After Monday's clash, Father David Jaegar accused Israeli soldiers of an "indescribable act of barbarity", but Israel maintains that Palestinian gunmen fired first, wounding its men.
 
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amie

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Originally posted by Dave Ulchers


Amie, how can you agree to call a group of souls you have never met "terrorists" in one post, and call me judgemental in the next? :scratch:
Dave...I just went through all of my posts and I did no such thing, however I do agree with coastie on his post, so I am assuming you are referring to that post...unless you pulled it from the magic land of imaginary posts...I do think you are being a bit judgemental to say "you are not afraid to hold up a mirror to someones face"...so I am having difficulty understanding where you are coming from...I am trying Dave.
 
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amie

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Originally posted by Dave Ulchers
Here's the latest update from the BBC. A monk has been critically wounded, and Israel has rejected a plea from the Francisan Order to end the seige peacefully which the words "stop bothering us"

It is all very sad what is happening, I think we all agree on that here...so sad.
 
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To my thinking, if one is asking for santuary, should one not put ones guns down and not return fire. This looks the same to me as having two people fighting in your living room. If you can, make them stop before they destroy the place. If you can't, kick them both out and tell them to continue this elsewhere. I think the next logical step is for the coalition forces to go to Bethlehem and boot them both out of one of the most holy sites on the planet.

In Christ
Vincent
 
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