Church History Thread

[Tranquil Bondservant]

I thought that it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to posting thoughts/discussions on events or people from Church history or the Church fathers. The topic itself can be very edifying as it can involve things like sharing in the experiences and thoughts of the early Church, the ones who experienced terrible persecution at the cost of their own suffering and lives. Such experience cannot be easily discounted and is worth bringing to mind as it reflects Christ; "You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin" (Hebrews 12:4).

God bless .

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

"Jesus Christ is the only proper Son who has been begotten by God, being His Word and first-begotten, and power; and, becoming man according to His will, He taught us these things for the conversion and restoration of the human race" -Justin Martyr

I love the way Justin puts this, that He taught us these things for the restoration of the human race. One of the implications that comes from this is that he’s using the argument that Christ came for the human race to be restored, which means that the pagan recipients of the letter must also believe that humanity is fallen. That’s such an interesting thing, that the fall is so intrinsic in humans that we instinctually know something is wrong and that it allows Justin to be able to form an argument for Christ on the basis of it.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

"And if any one disbelieves that God cares for these things, he will thereby either insinuate that God does not exist, or he will assert that though He exists He delights in vice, or exists like a stone, and that neither virtue nor vice are anything, but only in the opinion of men these things are reckoned good or evil. And this is the greatest profanity and wickedness.” -Justin Martyr

It’s amazing that Justin essentially lays bare what’s happening now in our time, even right down to the nature of people claiming that morals are subjective. That good and evil are the opinion of men. That’s so specific and precise as to the nature of the topic that it really does show there’s nothing new under the sun. And the same cause for thinking that morals are subjective is shared amongst all of those today, that to believe that God does not exist puts you on the path to believing that you’re the arbiter of good and evil. That even the same cause for thinking these things is shared amongst those who existed 2000 years ago blows my mind; especially when it's so prevalent today.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

"It is right and holy therefore, men and brethren, rather to obey God than to follow those who, through pride and sedition, have become the leaders of a detestable emulation. For we shall incur no slight injury, but rather great danger, if we rashly yield ourselves to the inclinations of men who aim at exciting strife and tumults, so as to draw us away from what is good" -Clement of Rome

The temptation & danger for embroiling ourselves in meaningless disputes in order to gratify our prideful lusts has never been greater than in our current age with social media.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

One of my favourite quotes from Church history (apart from Scripture obviously) is that of William Tyndale in response to a Catholic Scholar (or priest) when the scholar said "We were better be without God’s law than the pope’s". Tyndale responded: "I defy the Pope and all his laws. . . . If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause a boy that driveth the plow, shall know more of the Scripture than thou dost.". This is the man that was first strangled to death on the stake & pyre (out of respect) and then burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English from the original languages, Biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek. Without him the King James Version of the Bible would not have sounded like it did and therefore the English we speak may have ended up very differently. William Tyndale is responsible for so many beautiful English words and English words in general, one of the chief being the word "atonement" (at-one-ment). Also his translation of the word "ekklesia" into the word "Congregation" instead of "Church" was incredibly controversial for the time and from memory was one of the reasons he was declared a heretic by the reformation-era Catholic Church.

His final words before being strangled and burned at the stake were "Oh Lord, open the King of England's eyes".

Edit: I'm not trying to be anti-Catholic with this one, I just personally love William Tyndale and his story.

 

[DragonFox91]

Good thread idea! It occurred to me in the Bible Verses thread once, it'd be nice to post there quotes from extra-Biblical church fathers. This thread will be perfect for that! When I come across some, I'll post them here.

 

[bèlla]

There's a one year devotional on sale for $3.99 you may be interested in.

 

[LoveDivine]

I really like Foxe's Book of Martyrs. It's a really good resource for anyone who enjoys studying church histroy.

 

[High Fidelity]

Trust me, we are very far from Cambridge lol

Actually it’s down the road from me!

 

[LoveDivine]

I had posted yesterday that I would be making a post after Easter to defend Luther and discuss some of the accusations posted in here. After some reflection, I felt that it was best to remove the post and not engage in more debate in this thread. I would just caution others to be careful in accusing Christians who are no longer capable of defending themselves. Anyone who was a controversial figure in history or within the church will have all kinds of accusations and allegations made against them. Some may be true and others false. We need to be careful that we do not propagate false reports and character assassinations. We can however discuss with open minds their writings and theology. We may agree with many things a person did and said and also disagree with some of their views. I think nuanced discussions can actually be very edifying. Even a debate about the actions of the key reformers could be a positive thing that inspires all of us to learn more about church history.

I wanted to share something that I personally felt was very touching and uplifting. I will share this excerpt from Foxe's Book of Martyrs. It is the account of the martyrdom of St. Lawrence who was a bishop in the church in A.D 257.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

I came across this awesome map today that shows in essence the start and end of some of the Apostles (also some other people mentioned in the New Testament). Keep in mind that apart from Peter (John 21:18) and James (Acts 12:2) that the death of the Apostles comes strictly from tradition and isn't found in Scripture, so the evidence for their deaths is largely based on historical evidence instead of Scriptural. Their deaths should be a sobering reminder of the extent of our calling (Luke 14:28, Hebrews 12:4) and the ultimate cost of what it means to be a child of God (Matthew 16:24-26). God bless .

(Atlas of Christian History)

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up. ​

 

[DragonFox91]

Interesting thing about that map is each of the 12 were scattered to 12 corners. No 2 ended in the same place at the same time. Some would say it's too clean. But you don't see India & Spain both arguing Thomas went there, for example. It's one of those things where if it's too clean, they don't like it, but if there's some questions, they don't like it either.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

Interesting thing about that map is each of the 12 were scattered to 12 corners. No 2 ended in the same place at the same time. Some would say it's too clean. But you don't see India & Spain both arguing Thomas went there, for example. It's one of those things where if it's too clean, they don't like it, but if there's some questions, they don't like it either.

That's a great point and it definitely speaks to the truth of the Apostles' death. I know that there are competing accounts of where Paul died as some say he went on to Spain based on Romans 15:23-25; but you're right in that when it comes to their deaths there really are no competing accounts. Also India during this time period is so far out of the way and out of the imagination of those who lived that it would seem odd to place Thomas there, which if anything only further increases the veracity of it.

 

[LoveDivine]

I am going to link a really fascinating short account written by Emperor Marcus Aurelius of a battle he won after asking Christians to pray. He had in his earlier reign been a persecutor of Christians. This account is titled Marcus Aurelius' Epistle to the Senate. It's found at the end of The First Apology written by Justin Martyr.

Epistle of Marcus Aurelius to the Senate in which He Testifies that the Christians were the Cause of his victory.

 

[High Fidelity]

I am going to link a really fascinating short account written by Emperor Marcus Aurelius of a battle he won after asking Christians to pray. He had in his earlier reign been a persecutor of Christians. This account is titled Marcus Aurelius' Epistle to the Senate. It's found at the end of The First Apology written by Justin Martyr.

Epistle of Marcus Aurelius to the Senate in which He Testifies that the Christians were the Cause of his victory.

I’ve read a fair bit about Marcus Aurelius but I never knew this!

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

In keeping with the post made by @LoveDivine on Marcus Aurelius I thought it would be a good idea to share Pliny the Younger's letter to Emperor Trajan about what should be done with "the Christians". It also ties into the purpose of the First Apology of Justin Martyr about those who were being persecuted under the name "Christian". It's a sobering reminder of both what Christians suffered for following Jesus and also the systematic persecution that can be employed by a State (or in this case empire). And also that the ultimate cost of our faith is our entire life, that every aspect of our lives is to be (if called upon to do so) sacrificed in favour of Jesus (Philippians 3:8).

Here is an excerpt: "Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have followed the following procedure: I interrogated them as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome."

Pliny’s Letter to Trajan | Christian History Institute

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

God bless .

 

[LoveDivine]

In keeping with the post made by @LoveDivine on Marcus Aurelius I thought it would be a good idea to share Pliny the Younger's letter to Emperor Trajan about what should be done with "the Christians". It also ties into the purpose of the First Apology of Justin Martyr about those who were being persecuted under the name "Christian". It's a sobering reminder of both what Christians suffered for following Jesus and also the systematic persecution that can be employed by a State (or in this case empire). And also that the ultimate cost of our faith is our entire life, that every aspect of our lives is to be (if called upon to do so) sacrificed in favour of Jesus (Philippians 3:8).

Here is an excerpt: "Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have followed the following procedure: I interrogated them as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome."

Pliny’s Letter to Trajan | Christian History Institute

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

God bless .

It's really chilling to think about what those poor Christians had to endure. I can't imagine living under that intense of scrutiny and persecution. It's really sobering.

I also noticed though what a great testament this letter is to the greatness of those Christians. The Romans actually inadvertently give them the highest commendation possible. If anything this exchange of letters proves the superiority of the Christian faith and the lifestyles of those early Christians.

 

[sampa]

My pastor has been speaking on marriage and I thought it was interesting that he mentioned that Martin Luther married much later in life. And talking about someone who is set in their ways and how hard it was for him to go into a marriage.

Reading more I was surprised how scandalous it was back in the day.

The Scandalous Marriage of Katharina von Bora and Martin Luther.

 

[DragonFox91]

It's interesting b/c what the scandal would be in the present time is the age gap between them.

I wonder how much of a scandal it really was tho, b/c evidently marriages got going fast. I have no doubt it ruffled feathers & I'll be honest, I can see why - they had sworn before God no marriage, they were now being hypocrites. But was it more a loud minority that was outraged. That's one thing I've really been learning the past couple years, is how much everything's just written by the winners, the loud, the smoothest-talker, or the mob.

It's encouraging to hear not everyone who marries marries in their 20s. Thanks for sharing that!