Church Age

Hazelelponi

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so when does it end?

when Jesus comes back...

Jesus says no one knows the hour, but we should be ready to meet Him at any time. It could be tommorow, or 3,000 years future...
 
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ViaCrucis

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How can the church age end before the tribulation? if during the tribulation the only way to be saved is no different then before the tribulation through Jesus.

isn't the very definition of the church age = salvation through Jesus

The concept of "the church age" is itself complicated. Because on its own it's not at all very clear what is being spoken about.

I sense that you are using it in the way that Dispensationalists do, as referring to a parenthetical dispensation in which grace is how we are saved. But according to classic and neo-Dispensationalist teachings, the end of the so-called "church age" at "the rapture" also means the end of the "dispensation of grace" and that God will once again return to dealing with national Israel and salvation will once again be by obedience to the Law (not all Dispensationalists believe this, but that is the "traditional" perspective of Dispensationalist theology).

On the other hand, the use of "church age" as a more generic term to refer to the time since Christ founded and established His Church, then it's pretty innocuous.

However, Dispensationalism is false teaching. It is a thoroughly false hermeneutic and a thoroughly false and (quite frankly) heterodox theological system.

Salvation has always been through Jesus Christ. It's not that God saves people through different and arbitrary ways. Our Lord Jesus, and all that He did, is the salvation of the whole world.

Abraham, Moses, David--saved by grace through faith on Christ's account.

Our Lord Himself says, "Abraham longed to see My day" (John 8:56).

All of the covenants made prior to the coming of the Messiah point to the Messiah and are fulfilled in Him. That is why Paul says Jesus is Abraham's Seed, that it was Jesus that was with the Israelites in the desert, etc.

What God did in sending His only-begotten Son is for the whole world, not just for only one group of people, not just for one slice of time--but for all people, for all time. Indeed, what God has done is for the saving, healing, and redemption of the whole of creation.

It is the very salvation of the entire big wide universe, the entire cosmos. That is why we read this in Colossians:

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."

The whole universe exists because of and for Jesus Christ, and through Him God reconciles all things to Himself--the whole of creation.

That is why the Prophet Isaiah looks forward to behold the new heavens and the new earth, where the lamb and the wolf, the goat and the leopard can lay together in peace, where the child has no reason to fear the viper's den. It's what St. John sees in his final vision in the Apocalypse, the new heavens and the new earth, with the heavenly Jerusalem descending like a bride, the marriage of heaven and earth, of God and His people in the newness of the world made whole.

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." - Habbakuk 2:14

Salvation is from our God, and it isn't just for us as individuals in our being forgiven of our sins and being restored to communion with God--but it is the total renewal and healing of the entire created order. Which is why as Christians we do not teach and confess that we go drift up into an ethereal heaven for all eternity as disembodied ghosts--but rather we teach and confess the future resurrection of the body, the healing of all creation, and the life everlasting in the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Guojing

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How can the church age end before the tribulation? if during the tribulation the only way to be saved is no different then before the tribulation through Jesus.

isn't the very definition of the church age = salvation through Jesus

Romans 3:21 gives you the clue

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

The church age you talk about is the "but now" period, and it is only in this period that you could get righteousness without the Law.

Once the church age is over, the gospel of the kingdom will be valid once again.

And the gospel of the kingdom is about faith and works. (Matthew 5:17-19)
 
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DaveM

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when Jesus comes back...

Jesus says no one knows the hour, but we should be ready to meet Him at any time. It could be tommorow, or 3,000 years future...

Looks like he wont come back until the man of lawlessness is revealed first, I dont think that has happened

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Hi if you care to break this up in a different way Isaiah 61 Jesus quotes a portion of that passage and stops mid sentence and ends where it says and to proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD. Jesus claimed this passage was fulfilled in their hearing that day. The rest of chapter 61 talks about the same guy and it note he also is bringing in the day of vengeance of our God. The day of vengeance in Isaiah has a clear focus in you read Isaiah 61 it is very Zion centered. There are several places where it breaks this time of vengeance into more Jewish terms. Jer 30 calls it the time of Jacobs trouble, Daniel 9 it is Daniels 70th week. The new testament notes this For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. So we see when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in the blindness is lifted from Israel. In Luke 24 we see that Jerusalem will be trampled under foot until the time of the Gentiles is over.
This is showing a transition from what some have called the church age into Daniels 70th week which is specifically for Daniels people and the Holy city Jerusalem. The whole world is involved but the main focus is the anitchrist rising and leading to the 2nd coming of Jesus which will begin the kingdom age. Satan is bound the Lord takes the throne of David and this is when many many prophecies are fulfilled.

some will argue the kingdom is not of this earth and it is spiritual only.
I see clearly it is both a spiritual thing and a coming reality. Many are still saved in the tribulation but the church is where? The rapture occurs before this 70th week of Daniel.
 
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Dave L

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How can the church age end before the tribulation? if during the tribulation the only way to be saved is no different then before the tribulation through Jesus.

isn't the very definition of the church age = salvation through Jesus
We are to preach the gospel to all nations until the world ends. The Church age began in the Old Testament and continues until the end.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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How can the church age end before the tribulation? if during the tribulation the only way to be saved is no different then before the tribulation through Jesus.

isn't the very definition of the church age = salvation through Jesus
You are presenting one of the many Dispensational futurist conundrums. This is the pre- millennial secret rapture theory. Unfortunately your question can not be answered because the question itself is based on error. John Neldon Darby is the author of your confusion. I suggest you consider the teachings before he came around to decieve. Sorry, at times I just need to forge ahead with the truth. Be blessed.
 
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DaveM

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You are presenting one of the many Dispensational futurist conundrums. This is the pre- millennial secret rapture theory. Unfortunately your question can not be answered because the question itself is based on error. John Neldon Darby is the author of your confusion. I suggest you consider the teachings before he came around to decieve. Sorry, at times I just need to forge ahead with the truth. Be blessed.

I think we agree, I am a post trib person, trying to prepare for a discussion with a pre-trib freind

thanks for your reply
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I think we agree, I am a post trib person, trying to prepare for a discussion with a pre-trib freind

thanks for your reply
I hope you are equipped to guild in all truth. :prayer:Be blessed.
 
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Thomas White

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How can the church age end before the tribulation? if during the tribulation the only way to be saved is no different then before the tribulation through Jesus.

isn't the very definition of the church age = salvation through Jesus

"Church Age" is just a term created by mankind. Don't put a lot of thought into.
 
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LightLoveHope

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How can the church age end before the tribulation? if during the tribulation the only way to be saved is no different then before the tribulation through Jesus.

isn't the very definition of the church age = salvation through Jesus
Church age?
Not biblical. We are in the age of the Kingdom. The tribulation is the crowning before the reign.

God reigns in heaven. We are witnesses to the Kingdom in us today. It manifests through the love we share and show. It is enough, Amen

God bless you
 
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DaveM

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Church age?
Not biblical.

its often the term used for period of Grace and is biblical, why would you say not biblical?? since Jesus him self came and built his church here.

as far as the age of the kingdom I would have to look into a little further but I would think that does not actually start until the 1,000 rule of Christ

and then of course we Jesus own words,

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.
 
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LightLoveHope

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its often the term used for period of Grace and is biblical, why would you say not biblical?? since Jesus him self came and built his church here.

as far as the age of the kingdom I would have to look into a little further but I would think that does not actually start until the 1,000 rule of Christ

and then of course we Jesus own words,

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.
Jesus declared some were still alive who would see Jesus coming in His Kingdom.
He then went up the mount of transfiguration with Peter, John and James.
We often miss the obvious, but this was Jesus coming in His Kingdom through the cross and resurrection.
He stopped the apostles from telling the others until after he had risen.

When big events happen we often recognise them because of the crowds who gather, but with the Lord it is actually different. He is the ruler of all, and He defines what is significant and what is not.

Paul defined a believer as a temple of the living God, replacing the temple in Jerusalem, which is the most significant reality in our walk with Jesus.

I realised we tend to define realities by how we feel about them, which is driven by perception not necessarily by circumstance. Jesus came and spoke with us through scripture yet many will say God did not speak to me, show Him. The problem of the sinner, ourselves, is our state not our ability to hear or understand. Jesus described the teachers of the law seeking signs, but it being meaningless, because they were actually just coming up with excuses. The hardest truth we face is the need to humbly bow before Jesus and admit we have nothing and He is literally everything. There is no difference between us doing this now or with Him face to face. Once you understand the reality of His presence is in our perception not physicality, you begin to see the Kingdom is already here.

The discussion with the Kingdom has always been about attitude not power, love and purity not demonstrations of the miraculous. As Jesus showed with the 10 lepers, men easily desire solutions with no cost, and do not pause to consider there maybe something more than an immediate fix.

God is not far away, He is there in the people in need, the people lonely without hope, worried about tomorrow and racked with problems that are the unknown rather than rejoicing in the blessing they already have, which over flows beyond measure. Peter in prison, awaiting execution the next day, just got lost in praising God. And there he was in the street, set free, to serve God further because His time was not yet served.

God bless you
 
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Guojing

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This picture would help some people understand the difference between the church age, which is the age of grace, from the Tribulation.

time-&-dispensations.jpg
 
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ViaCrucis

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its often the term used for period of Grace and is biblical, why would you say not biblical?? since Jesus him self came and built his church here.

as far as the age of the kingdom I would have to look into a little further but I would think that does not actually start until the 1,000 rule of Christ

and then of course we Jesus own words,

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.

The idea that time can be divided into a series of dispensations through which God operates in different ways in saving humankind is an utterly false doctrine.

Also, most Christians don't believe in a literal thousand years. Most of us are Amillennial, we understand that the thousand years is symbolic of Christ's reign from heaven. The kingdom of God is present here and now through the Church, as Christ our Lord rules as King Messiah at the right hand of the Father even until His glorious return delivers all things over to the Father, as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:25 that He must reign until every enemy is placed under His feet, the final enemy being death. The final defeat of death is at His coming, when the dead are raised bodily, which is why St. Paul says later in the same chapter,

"Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

'Death is swallowed up in victory.'
'O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?'

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law. But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Jesus Christ.
" - 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

The final victory over death is at Christ's coming, when the dead are raised, and we are transformed bodily.

So Christ returns not to establish an earthly kingdom, but rather He returns with everlasting kingdom. The Millennium isn't an earthly kingdom, as our Lord Himself has said, "My kingdom is not of this world" as you yourself have quoted.

But the Day is coming when our Lord returns, in glory as judge of the living and the dead, and the dead shall be raised, and there is Final Judgment. And then God makes all things new, and as it was written by the Prophets of old, the knowledge of the glory of God will cover the earth like the water covers the seas (Habakkuk 2:14).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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