Christ's Atonement?

[Chester]

What exactly is meant by the word "atonement" and does it include justification?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Chester
What exactly is meant by the word "atonement" and does it include justification?

An atonement is a reconciliation of alienated parties, the restoration of a broken relationship.  Atonement is accomplished by making amends, blotting out offenses, and giving satisfaction for wrongs done.

According to Scripture every person sins and needs to make atonement, but lacks the power and resources for doing so.  We have offended our Creator, whose nature it is to hate sin (Jer. 44:4; Hab. 1:13) and to punish it (Ps. 5:4-6; Rom. 1:18; 2:5-9).  Those who have sinned cannot be accepted by and do not have fellowship with God unless atonement is made.  Since there is sin in even the best actions of sinful creatures, anything we do in the hope of making amends can only increase our guilt or worsen our situation, for the "sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord" (Prov. 15:8).  There is no way to establish one's own righteousness before God (Job 15:14-16; Is. 64:6; Rom. 10:2,3); it simply cannot be done.

But against this background of human hopelessness, Scripture reveals the grace and mercy of God, who Himself provides the atonement that sin has made necessary.  God's amazing grace is the focus of Biblical faith; from Genesis to Revelation it shines out with breathtaking glory.

When God brought Israel out of Egypt, He set up as part of the covenant relationship a system of sacrifices that had at its heart the shedding of the blood of animals "to make atonement for your souls" (Lev. 17:11).  Thes sacrifices were "typical"; that is, as "types" they pointed forward to something better.  Sins were forgiven when sacrifices were faithfully offered, but it was not the blood of animals that blotted out sins (Heb. 10:4).  It was the blood of the "antitype," Jesus Christ, whose death on the cross atoned for sins already committed, as well as sins that would be committed afterwards (Rom. 3:25,26; 4:3-8; Heb. 9:11-15).

According to the New Testament, Christ's blood was shed as a sacrifice (Rom. 3:25; 5:9; Eph. 1:7; Rev. 1:5).  Christ redeemed His people by means of a ransom; His death was the price that freed us from guilt and from enslavement to sin (Rom 3:24; Gal. 4:4,5; Col. 1:14).  In Christ's death, God reconciled us to Himself, overcoming His own hostility that our sins provoked (Rom 5:10; 2 Cor. 5:18; Col. 1:20-22).  The Cross propitiated God.  That is to say, it quenched His wrath against us by expiating our sins, and so removing them from His sight (Rom 3:25; Heb. 2:17; 1 John 2:2; 4:10).  The Cross had this effect because in His suffering Christ assumed our identity and endured the retributive judgment due to us, that is, "the curse of the law" (Gal. 3:13).  He suffered as our substitue, with the damning record ofour transgressions nailed by God to His cross as the list of crimes for which He died (Col. 2:14).  (Theological note from the Geneva Reformation Study Bible.)

Atonement does not "include justification."  It's what brings it about through the forgiveness of God through the death of Jesus Christ.

God bless

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Chester
What exactly is meant by the word "atonement" and does it include justification?

Atonement is God's reconcilation method. Man a sinner is reconciled with God, by the payment of the debt, by Jesus Christ. The debt was paid by his Death.

 

[Chester]

Thanks for the replies. I have a few more questions.

What does righteousness mean? Is it the same as atonement?

You both make mention of a ransom/payment. To whom is this ransom paid?

Reformationist you posted, "The Cross had this effect because in His suffering Christ assumed our identity and endured the retributive judgment due to us". I take the phrase, "the retributive judgment due to us", as meaning physical death. IOW, Jesus died a physical death so that we do not have to die the eternal death, is that correct?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Chester
What does righteousness mean?

I'm not sure what the best definition would be but I would say that it is summed up in these verses:

Matthew 22:37-39
Jesus said to him, ""You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

Is it the same as atonement?

Well,...the atonement was definitely a righteous act of Christ but I'm not sure I'd say they are the same.

You both make mention of a ransom/payment. To whom is this ransom paid?

Paid by God, to God. 

Reformationist you posted, "The Cross had this effect because in His suffering Christ assumed our identity and endured the retributive judgment due to us". I take the phrase, "the retributive judgment due to us", as meaning physical death.

Physical death was only part of it.  When Adam fell from grace and was cast from the Garden he did not die physically right away.  The death he experienced was a spiritual death that involved complete separation from his Father.  It is the same state we are in until God saves us.  We are basically dead men and women walking around.  When Christ suffered in our stead He not only physically died but also experienced the anguish of separation from His Father, with whom He had a perfect relationship.

IOW, Jesus died a physical death so that we do not have to die the eternal death, is that correct?

Jesus' righteous action of taking our place did not occur so that "we do not have to die the eternal death."  His death took place and ensure that we would not die the eternal death.  It was never a "what if" situation.  His death was efficacious.  It accomplished exactly that which it was intended to accomplish.

God bless

 

[Chester]

Okay, so you're saying that righteousness is loving God and loving our neighbor? Above, you say that
"there is no way to establish one's own righteousness before God". Are you saying that we, as sinners, can't love God or neighbor without an atonement? Hmm . . . you said that sinners "do not have fellowship with God", so I understood righteousness to mean, "fellowship with God". Just trying to put the pieces together.

Paid by God, to God.

A ransom is paid to a captor. Does this imply that God held us captive? Also, does God have to be paid to forgive us?

When Christ suffered in our stead He not only physically died but also experienced the anguish of separation from His Father, with whom He had a perfect relationship.

How did Jesus experienced separation from His Father?

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

God removed his presence from his Son when he died upon the cross. Jesus took the sin of the world unto him, and the Father cannot tolerate sin.

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[3] lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"[

 

[Anthony]

Right-eous-ness like Happy-ness is a state of being. While Jesus was in a state of rightousness 24/7, it is our goal to be in that same state as much as possible, given the mix of control between the flesh and Spirit we have. Righteousness is doing the right thing in thought, word and deed.

Justification - comes from faith in Jesus Christ

Ransom - was paid to the injured party, which was "God the Father", in order to redeem us so that we could be accepted by God the Father.

 

 

[Chester]

Ransom - was paid to the injured party, which was "God the Father", in order to redeem us so that we could be accepted by God the Father.

With all due respect, this does not make sense. Ransom's are not paid to the injured party.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Chester
With all due respect, this does not make sense. Ransom's are not paid to the injured party.

That is because we are held by the present day meaning and use of words, mainly the result of TV and Movies.


MK 10:45
For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.

The english word Ransom is not the original bible word used, it was the Greek word Lutron. Which is a "price paid for redeeming", i.e. redemption. Lutron comes form the root word Luo which means to loosen one who is bound. Releasing anything for a price has always had a negative meaning associated with it; but that is not the case here. In Order for God the Father to accept us, our sins needed to be wiped out, we needed to be redeemed.

Christ came to release us from the debt of sin, which has to be eliminated in order to be accepted by God the Father. Christ set us free from this with his plea bargin.

 

 

[Chester]

Anthony, are you implying that God is paid to forgive sinners?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Chester
Okay, so you're saying that righteousness is loving God and loving our neighbor?

Sure.

Above, you say that "there is no way to establish one's own righteousness before God".

Correct.

Are you saying that we, as sinners, can't love God or neighbor without an atonement?

Correct.

Hmm . . . you said that sinners "do not have fellowship with God", so I understood righteousness to mean, "fellowship with God". Just trying to put the pieces together.

Hmm...I would not say that.  I have fellowship with God but only through His Son, who is righteous.  God is righteous.  Everything else is not God.  Therefore, there are none righteous before God because everything pales in comparison. 

A ransom is paid to a captor. Does this imply that God held us captive?

No.  We are captive to our sinful nature.  God is the one who rescues us from captivity, just as He rescued the Jews.

Also, does God have to be paid to forgive us?

I don't know what you mean by "paid" but I will say, again, that the thing that separates us from God is God's wrath.  That wrath must be quenched for there to be mercy shown.  Because God is just, justice must be served.  It was.  It was just served upon the Son of Him who justifies.

How did Jesus experienced separation from His Father?

In the Garden of Gesthemene, when He took upon Himself the sins of God's chosen, He, due to the sin He was accredited with, was subject to the same spiritual separation that mankind experience.  The difference for Him was that since His birth He was in perfect spiritual harmony with His Father and the change was like ripping His soul out.  For us, we are born dead.  We are born separated from our Father.

God bless

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Chester
Anthony, are you implying that God is paid to forgive sinners?

Paid, payment, debt, and ransom are all human terms used to explain a spiritual concept. And like most attempts man's English fails.

Bottomline you can't get to heaven and to God the Father, without a clean bill of health. Jesus Christ serves as our Doctor. Jesus Christ did the charity work, and now we are saved. Our ticket is now punch and we are welcome.

 

 

[Chester]

No. We are captive to our sinful nature. God is the one who rescues us from captivity, just as He rescued the Jews.

So, let me get this straight, God paid Himself to rescue us from our sinful nature. Right?

I don't know what you mean by "paid" but I will say, again, that the thing that separates us from God is God's wrath.

By "paid", I mean what you and Anthony have told me, i.e. "His death was the price that freed us from guilt" & "The debt was paid by his Death". What I'm asking is; did the Father require a sacrifice (a "payment"), before He could forgive sinners?

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Chester
By "paid", I mean what you and Anthony have told me, i.e. "His death was the price that freed us from guilt" & "The debt was paid by his Death". What I'm asking is; did the Father require a sacrifice (a "payment"), before He could forgive sinners?

God the Father required a car wash before he could accept us into his house. We are pigs, we are sinners and we need to be cleaned up. Jesus paid the price to have us washed.

   

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Chester
So, let me get this straight, God paid Himself to rescue us from our sinful nature. Right?

Correct.

By "paid", I mean what you and Anthony have told me, i.e. "His death was the price that freed us from guilt" & "The debt was paid by his Death". What I'm asking is; did the Father require a sacrifice (a "payment"), before He could forgive sinners?

Absolutely.  God is just.  What that means is that God has a Law and that Law must be adhered to.  The Law is the essence of God.  It is His nature.  God said, "the wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23).  God could not just come back and say, "Hey, I was just kidding about that whole death thing."  Someone had to die.  The death had to be a worthy substitute if it was going to appease God's wrath for the sins of many.  You see, if I was to die for your sins it would do no good because I would first have to answer (pay the penalty) for my own sins.  Obviously, I could not pay for more than one as, after the first payment, I'd be dead.  Now Christ, who had no sin, was able to take upon Himself the sins of God's elect.  God had to send forth the propitiation because there was no one on earth who was sinless and could serve as an atoning sacrifice.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Anthony
Jesus paid the price to have us washed.

Or, another view, the reformed view, of His death is that His death did wash us, it didn't just make it possible for us to be washed.

God bless

 

[Chester]

Thanks Reformationist. One other question. How do you interpret the parable starting at Matthew 18:23? To me, it looks like the king, i.e. God, forgives the servants debt without exacting any payment at all. IOW, God freely forgives the debt without requiring a payment.

 

[Anthony]

The King absorbed the Loss.

 

[Chester]

The King absorbed the Loss.

That's because the king is not paid. Don't you see, you're telling me that God the Father was paid to forgive sinners but the parable implies that the Father was not paid to forgive at all. Absorbing the loss is not the same as being paid, in fact, it shows that He was not paid.