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Christopher Columbus Should Be Replaced!

Who Discovered America?

  • Columbus

  • Leif Erikson

  • Someone Else


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Monk Brendan

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Historically, Columbus was the last of the great explorers who landed their ship on New World soil and claimed it for someone or other.

Leif Erikson was not the first to "discover" America either. Rather, his journey in the 10th century led to a lot of Nordic people eventually coming here. However, there is one voyager showed up here in America itself in the 6th century, 400 years before Leif Erikson, and almost 1000 years before Columbus.

In the sixth century, Ireland’s St. Brendan embarked on a legendary voyage that some believe took him to North America nearly 500 years before the Vikings and 1,000 years before Christopher Columbus. Is there any truth in the theory or is it just a bunch of blarney?

Fifty years after the death of St. Patrick on March 17, 461 A.D., another Celtic saint continued the work of converting pagan Ireland to Christianity. Born near Tralee in County Kerry in 484 A.D., St. Brendan the Navigator traveled tirelessly to evangelize and establish monasteries following his ordination to the priesthood at age 28. The sixth-century monk frequently sailed the high seas to spread the gospel throughout Ireland as well as to Scotland, Wales and Brittany in the north of France.

According to a 1,500-year-old Irish tale, however, St. Brendan embarked on one particularly epic journey in the winter of his 93-year-old life. According to the story, St. Barinthus told St. Brendan that he had just returned from a visit to Paradise, a land that lurked far beyond the horizon. For 40 days St. Brendan fasted and prayed atop a mountain on the rugged Dingle Peninsula, a spindly finger of land on the west of Ireland that points directly at North America. The octogenarian squinted out at the crashing waves of the Atlantic Ocean in wonder of what was out there before deciding to go in pursuit of the fabled Garden of Eden.

St. Brendan crafted a traditional Irish round-bottom boat, shaped like a canoe and called a currach, with square sails and leather skins stitched together to create a watertight seal over the vessel’s wooden skeleton. Along with a crew of anywhere between 18 and 150 according to the differing accounts, the saint sailed off into the cobalt ocean. As the fragile craft beat against the waves, St. Brendan encountered towering crystal pillars afloat in the oceans, sheep the size of oxen, giants who pelted the ship with fireballs the smelled like rotten eggs and talking birds singing psalms. Finally, as the boat drifted through a fog, it landed at what the Irishmen thought was Paradise, a land lush with vegetation, fragrant with flowers and abounding in fruit and colorful stones. After staying for 40 days, an angel told the men to return home. When St. Brendan came back to the Emerald Isle after the seven-year voyage, pilgrims who heard the sensational story flocked to his side in remote County Kerry until he died around 577 A.D.

Much like with St. Patrick, the line between the history and legend surrounding St. Brendan has been blurred. The account of his voyage passed from lip to lip for generations until a ninth-century Irish monk finally put it to paper in a Latin text entitled “Navigatio Sancti Brendani” (“The Voyage of St. Brendan”). The book was among the biggest page-turners of the Middle Ages and became so widely known that cartographers began to include Paradise, recorded as “St. Brendan’s Island,” on maps. Christopher Columbus was aware of the elusive island—which was drawn everywhere from the southwest of Ireland to near the Canary Islands off the African coast—as he embarked on his own voyage across the Atlantic in 1492.

Most scholars consider “The Voyage of St. Brendan” to simply be a religious allegory, but some believe that the tale was based on an actual voyage, albeit with some Irish embellishment. When Columbus and succeeding explorers failed to find the mythical island drawn on their maps, a new theory arose that perhaps St. Brendan and his crew had actually sailed clear across the Atlantic and that Paradise was in fact North America. Proponents pointed to Scandinavian sagas that mentioned that the Irish had already visited North America by the time the Vikings landed there around 1000 A.D. The Vikings referred to the lands south of their settlement in Vinland as “Irland it Mikla,” or “Greater Ireland.”

In addition, the fantastical sights encountered by St. Brendan, although exaggerated, could be matched to actual stopovers between Ireland and North America on a similar North Atlantic route taken by the Vikings. The crystal pillars could be icebergs, the Faroe Islands are home to large sheep and a chorus of squawking birds and the foul-smelling fireballs could correlate to the sulfuric dioxide spewed by Iceland’s volcanoes, minus the giants.

But would a trans-Atlantic voyage have even been possible in the sixth century? In 1976, modern-day adventurer Tim Severin attempted to answer the question. Based on the description of the currach in the text, he crafted an identical vessel and cast off from the Dingle Peninsula with four fellow explorers in the shadow of the same mountain where St. Brendan had been enraptured in prayer prior to his voyage (now named Mount Brandon in the saint’s honor). Following the prevailing winds across the northernmost part of the Atlantic Ocean, they crossed it using landing points such as the Aran Islands, the Hebrides, the Faroe Islands, Iceland and Greenland as stepping stones before arriving in Newfoundland.

While Severin proved that a trans-Atlantic voyage was possible during St. Brendan’s day, no archaeological evidence of an Irish settlement in North America before the Vikings has ever been unearthed. Nor would discovery of such artifacts prove that St. Brendan was the first Irishman in North America. After all, in the tale itself, St. Barinthus had first set foot in the distant land.

Everything described in “The Voyage of St. Brendan” could be complete blarney, but for centuries numerous scholars also discounted the Vikings sagas of their voyages to the New World as legends. That all changed with the discovery of a Viking settlement on the northernmost tip of Newfoundland in 1960, and Irish eyes would be smiling if any artifacts connected to St. Brendan are ever found in North America.
 
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alsughasoughaiuyfygh

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Leif Erickson may have discovered the Americas first but Christopher Columbus made the discovery known to Europe and the rest of the Old World and thus made a far bigger impact on world history than Leif Erickson did.
 
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buzuxi02

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Colombus Day is just a celebration of Italian heritage, the same way St. Patrick's Day ( in the states) is a celebration of Irish heritage.
What happened was Italians were facing discrimination and stereotypes in the 1890's, so they began promoting the Italian navigator to demonstrate to the wasps that they too were educated people with advanced knowledge, not the inferior violent drunk neanderthal stereotype . Italians should add Amerigo Vespucci to Colombus day as well.
 
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tulc

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Why can't someone discover a place where millions of people are living?
...because millions of people already discovered it by living there? :scratch:
tulc(thought that part was pretty obvious) :sorry:
 
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buzuxi02

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How can someone "discover" something where millions of people were already living? :scratch:
tulc(actually got in trouble at school for asking that question back in the 60's) :sorry:
Because nobody outside of the western hemisphere truly knew there was a huge land mass here. Likewise the inhabitants of the western hemisphere knew nothing about the existence of eastern hemisphere landmass.
 
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tulc

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Because nobody outside of the western hemisphere truly knew there was a huge land mass here. Likewise the inhabitants of the western hemisphere knew nothing about the existence of eastern hemisphere landmass.
...I'd think the people who probably came over from Asia would have something to say about who "discovered" what land mass first. Been here:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/5785151/150...ges-conventional-story-of-american-settlement
tulc(thinks "Colombo day" has a better ring to it,
upload_2017-10-9_22-22-22.jpeg
) :)
 
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Light of the East

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How can someone "discover" something where millions of people were already living? :scratch:
tulc(actually got in trouble at school for asking that question back in the 60's) :sorry:


And HOW as Christians do they "claim" the land that others are living on as their own? In the world where I was raised, we called that "stealing."
 
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Shiloh Raven

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And HOW as Christians do they "claim" the land that others are living on as their own? In the world where I was raised, we called that "stealing."

Exactly, but that truth is usually denied or covered up with a multitude of excuses, in a feeble attempt to justify the theft of tribal lands and the forced removal or slaughter of the Indigenous people.
 
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buzuxi02

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...I'd think the people who probably came over from Asia would have something to say about who "discovered" what land mass first. Been here:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/5785151/150...ges-conventional-story-of-american-settlement
tulc(thinks "Colombo day" has a better ring to it, View attachment 209703) :)

Not sure what the article has to do with what you said. The fact is all peoples' have mythologies, legends and tales about the origins. Yet you won't find any ancient myth, legend or scripture claiming we came from sub-Saharan Africa like modern science theories tell us.. And the closest you will come of legends that we came from outerspace is if you interpret deities as alien life form who either came here or somehow spawned us while visiting Eartj. That's exactly what the Inca's believed. They originated from their sun god who drew them out of a river. If your Christian or jew you may believe all men originated somewhere in Mesopotamia and then began populating and disbersing outward after a flood etc. Fact is NO native American tribe believed or remembered that they broke off a larger tribe from a land mass on the other side of the globe.
 
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tulc

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Not sure what the article has to do with what you said. The fact is all peoples' have mythologies, legends and tales about the origins. Yet you won't find any ancient myth, legend or scripture claiming we came from sub-Saharan Africa like modern science theories tell us.. And the closest you will come of legends that we came from outerspace is if you interpret deities as alien life form who either came here or somehow spawned us while visiting Eartj. That's exactly what the Inca's believed. They originated from their sun god who drew them out of a river. If your Christian or jew you may believe all men originated somewhere in Mesopotamia and then began populating and disbersing outward after a flood etc. Fact is NO native American tribe believed or remembered that they broke off a larger tribe from a land mass on the other side of the globe.
...wow...you know every tribe that ever lived in Americas myths and legends? :eek:
tulc(thinks that's pretty impressive) :oldthumbsup:
 
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Shiloh Raven

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Fact is NO native American tribe believed or remembered that they broke off a larger tribe from a land mass on the other side of the globe.

That's not exactly right because I know some Native Americans who do believe in the Bering Strait theory. It happens to be a controversial theory among many Native Americans, just as the theory of evolution is controversial among many Christians. As someone with native ancestry, I don't believe in the Bering Strait theory myself, but this isn't an argument that I want to get sucked into again.
 
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Monk Brendan

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The fact is all peoples' have mythologies, legends and tales about the origins.

Among some tribes of "Native Americans" or whatever the PC term is today, there is a legend about men coming from the sea, with red hair and "fish" eyes--meaning blue eyes. There are also Oggam Script (as was used in Ireland during Brendan's time) carvings in rocks in West Virginia that have a significant Christian meaning. And one of those carvings is a recognizable Chi Rho.
 
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buzuxi02

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That's not exactly right because I know some Native Americans who do believe in the Bering Strait theory. It happens to be a controversial theory among many Native Americans, just as the theory of evolution is controversial among many Christians. As someone with native ancestry, I don't believe in the Bering Strait theory myself, but this isn't an argument that I want to get sucked into again.
But what I mean is aside from Eskimos did they have stories about the Bering Strait origins in the 15th century? Whether Inca's or Aztec or Pueblos or Cherokee, none knew much of their historical origins, none had an actual remembrance based on historical reality.

The post that started the discussion was how did Colombus discover a continent if people already lived here. My answer was he discovered it on behalf of the eastern hemisphere while at the same time inhabitants of the western hemisphere discovered that peoples and land masses existed on the other side of the globe. It was an introduction of two halves that none knew existed. A poster implied the native's of the western hemisphere knew of the eastern hemisphere based on some historical remembrance of them exploring their way beginning from their original eastern half of the globe an ending in the western half where they settled. The Bering Strait theory just like the Out of Africa theory was unknown until a century ago.
 
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tulc

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But what I mean is aside from Eskimos did they have stories about the Bering Strait origins in the 15th century? Whether Inca's or Aztec or Pueblos or Cherokee, none knew much of their historical origins, none had an actual remembrance based on historical reality.

The post that started the discussion was how did Colombus discover a continent if people already lived here. My answer was he discovered it on behalf of the eastern hemisphere while at the same time inhabitants of the western hemisphere discovered that peoples and land masses existed on the other side of the globe. It was an introduction of two halves that none knew existed. A poster implied the native's of the western hemisphere knew of the eastern hemisphere based on some historical remembrance of them exploring their way beginning from their original eastern half of the globe an ending in the western half where they settled. The Bering Strait theory just like the Out of Africa theory was unknown until a century ago.
Could you link to those posts? Because I'm not sure I saw any that said what you claimed. :wave:
tulc(is just wondering) :)
 
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SolomonVII

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Christopher Columbus changed the course of history. It is very likely that if it was not him, it would have been somebody else. The Portuguese traders spotted the coast of Brazil a short time later.
It was the Age of Exploration. The fall of Constantinople meant that trade through the Mediterranean had to go through expensive Islamic middle men, and Europeans were curious.

Columbus captured the spirit of the age, and it is the spirit of that age that changed the world into what it is today.
That is significant.
Leif Erickson was not significant. It is a point of interest, like Chinese artifacts on Vancouver Island, but it had little global consequence.

All in all, Western Christian presence across the globe has been a civilizing influence. Of course the explorers were brutal, as were the people they encountered.
But anyone who follows the research of Steven Pinker understands that the world is a much violent place today than it ever has been.

Christopher Columbus was a big part of the reason of how that came to be.

Of course if people want to whitewash Columbus from history, that is fine too. Historical accuracy is not essential to any nations founding myths.
And romanticized narratives about the Noble First Nations of America do make for fine myths too. Moreover, if they make all the immigrants subsequent to Christopher Columbus feel better about ourselves and the conquests or previous generations that have given us our homes and lives in the New World, and thereby allow us to ingratiate us all to the First Nations, then it is all good.
 
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