Christmas?

jesusfreak3786 · Jul 10, 2007

Christmas has only been celebrated in the US since apx. the mid 1800's.

The image of Santa Clause as is widely known today was first displayed on a Coca Cola add.

In America, Christmas was originally viewed as a pagan holiday....for hundreds of years.

A majority of the rituals, and "traditions" held on Christmas are actually direct copies of pagan rituals in worship of the sun gods birthday, including the exchange of gifts.

We as Christians are commanded by God to worship only Him. Yet if we preform a pagan ritual isn't that a form of Idolatry?

Conceder this, If a husband whom is good to his wife encounters another woman, and has sex with her, or even just passionately kisses her, YET he is thinking of his wife, and honoring her in words and thoughts......is he still committing adultery? Even though he is going through the actions of adultery he is doing it with the right mind set. Is it still adultery? Is Christmas still idolatry? You decide.

SeraphimSarov · Jul 10, 2007

jesusfreak3786 said:
Christmas has only been celebrated in the US since apx. the mid 1800's.

Are you trying to tell me that the Nativity of our Lord was not celebrated before this? Or are you talking about the commercial holiday that it has become to non-Christians these days?

skywatching · Jul 10, 2007

I just recently got the same load down on the pactices as she states. This in turn has my kids in an uproar because not only am I getting rid of the tree and ornaments (which transferred from pagan holidays that converted Christians in the 1st Century incorporated), we are relinquishing the loads of gift exchange, etc. I have decided that we are going to celebrete the birth of Christ as a birthday party for Him with the Nativity and so to not totally distress them they each get one gift as an exchanged party gifts. I have not cemented that but I do plan to make changes just as how we pactice Easter also. That is full of pagan things too.

SeraphimSarov · Jul 10, 2007

Does celebrating those holy days the way you did before make you a pagan? Are you aware that the very word "Easter" has origins in pre-Christianity?

jesusfreak3786 · Jul 10, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
Are you trying to tell me that the Nativity of our Lord was not celebrated before this? Or are you talking about the commercial holiday that it has become to non-Christians these days?

In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas; its celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely. Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.
By the 1820s, sectarian tension in England had eased and British writers began to worry that Christmas was dying out. They imagined Tudor Christmas as a time of heartfelt celebration, and efforts were made to revive the holiday. Charles Dickens' book A Christmas Carol, published in 1843, played a major role in reinventing Christmas as a holiday emphasizing family, goodwill, and compassion over communal celebration and hedonistic excess.[27]
Interest in Christmas in America was revived in the 1820s by several short stories by Washington Irving appearing in his The Sketch Book of Geoffrey Crayon and "Old Christmas",and by Clement Clarke Moore's 1822 poem A Visit From St. Nicholas (poularly known by its first line: Twas the Night Before Christmas. Irving's stories depicted harmonious warm-hearted holiday traditions he claimed to have observed in England. Although some argue that Irving invented the traditions he describes, they were widely imitated by his American readers.[28] The numerous German immigrants and the homecomings following the American Civil War helped promote the holiday by bringing with them continental European traditions. Christmas was declared a U.S. Federal holiday in 1870 .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

Here is some info, I'm sure if you search the web you can find plenty.

SeraphimSarov · Jul 10, 2007

jesusfreak3786 said:
In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas; its celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely. Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.

I'm quite familiar with its history in the US. I'm wondering why it matters what the Puritans thought. And I'm wondering why it really matters what other people think Christmas is if you know what it is. Not trying to condemn your ideas; just trying to understand.

GratiaCorpusChristi · Jul 10, 2007

jesusfreak3786 said:
In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas; its celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely. Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.

The Puritans didn't celebrate Christians because Puritans were Calvinists who held to the regulative principle of worship, which states that any worship form or holiday not specifically mentioned in the Scriptures is not fit for Christians.

Anyway, it's been celebrated on December 25th for centuries. Yes, we know it's not the actual date. Yes, we know it was influenced by pagan practices.

So? What's your point?

skywatching · Jul 10, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
Does celebrating those holy days the way you did before make you a pagan? Are you aware that the very word "Easter" has origins in pre-Christianity?

yes i am now aware of the orgination of the word...hence why I feel like by our also recognizing those added 'sacrements' it pulls focus away from what we are celebrating which are the milestones of Jesus. I am not bashing them or denoucing them as pagan intent. I am merely trying to focus and teach my children that those things are not what matters in the true sense of these Holy Days. It has evolved into commercialism that opens our religious celebrations for the non-believers and it just never really has set well with me. I never really liked the 'Santa" thing and never promoted nor denounced for my kids. I never cared much for the added bunnies and colored eggs either (dang messy things..LOL) and was hard pressed to let my kids be envolved in Halloween. I dont judge nor condemn those who choose to practice that way, it just is conviction of heart to be more like Jesus.

SeraphimSarov · Jul 10, 2007

skywatching said:
hence why I feel like by our also recognizing those added 'sacrements' it pulls focus away from what we are celebrating which are the milestones of Jesus.

What do the sacraments have to do with how Holy Days are celebrated?

skywatching said:
I am merely trying to focus and teach my children that those things are not what matters in the true sense of these Holy Days. It has evolved into commercialism that opens our religious celebrations for the non-believers

Nothing there that I disagree with. I just don't see a problem with putting up a tree, decorating it and exchanging gifts. How this is done can certainly help one's kids realize what Christmas is - i.e. not about getting shiny new toys, but celebrating the birth of the Savior of our souls.

ParsonJefferson · Jul 10, 2007

jesusfreak3786 said:
Christmas has only been celebrated in the US since apx. the mid 1800's.

The image of Santa Clause as is widely known today was first displayed on a Coca Cola add.

In America, Christmas was originally viewed as a pagan holiday....for hundreds of years.

A majority of the rituals, and "traditions" held on Christmas are actually direct copies of pagan rituals in worship of the sun gods birthday, including the exchange of gifts.

We as Christians are commanded by God to worship only Him. Yet if we preform a pagan ritual isn't that a form of Idolatry?

Conceder this, If a husband whom is good to his wife encounters another woman, and has sex with her, or even just passionately kisses her, YET he is thinking of his wife, and honoring her in words and thoughts......is he still committing adultery? Even though he is going through the actions of adultery he is doing it with the right mind set. Is it still adultery? Is Christmas still idolatry? You decide.

My family celebrates Christmas every year.

We do NOT claim that December 25th is actually Jesus' birthday. We do NOT worship Santa, or bow down to our Christmas tree. We've never made more of all the stories & tales than what they are - stories & fables.

We use the season to celebrate the fact that the Messiah has come - Immanuel - God with us. We use the season to be together as a family, and to worship. We talk about Jesus, and not just Jesus the baby but Jesus the Lord.

I suppose some people miss the beauty of the Christ-child, due to pursuing all the wrong things at Christmas. But the celebration of Christmas is not, in and of itself, idolatry.

skywatching · Jul 10, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
What do the sacraments have to do with how Holy Days are celebrated?

Nothing there that I disagree with. I just don't see a problem with putting up a tree, decorating it and exchanging gifts. How this is done can certainly help one's kids realize what Christmas is - i.e. not about getting shiny new toys, but celebrating the birth of the Savior of our souls.

the best way to summerize it is that Jesus was simplistic and there is no reason why I can't be...too much fluff in life just bogs down everything and distracts...hey, if i could get away with it, i would throw out the tv..HAHAHAHA

SeraphimSarov · Jul 10, 2007

skywatching said:
the best way to summerize it is that Jesus was simplistic and there is no reason why I can't be...

I dunno about simplistic, but I see what you're saying. That's why we have monasteries and such.

skywatching said:
too much fluff in life just bogs down everything and distracts...hey, if i could get away with it, i would throw out the tv..HAHAHAHA

Very, very true. And what you say about throwing out the TV isn't so radical, really... although I imagine that your children would revolt if you did.

mont974x4 · Jul 10, 2007

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
Col 2:21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
Col 2:22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
Col 2:23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

ParsonJefferson · Jul 10, 2007

skywatching said:
the best way to summerize it is that Jesus was simplistic and there is no reason why I can't be...too much fluff in life just bogs down everything and distracts...hey, if i could get away with it, i would throw out the tv..HAHAHAHA

You've got some good points there!

But don't THROW OUT the TV - SELL it!

Then use the money to buy Christmas presents.

skywatching · Jul 11, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
I dunno about simplistic, but I see what you're saying. That's why we have monasteries and such.

i am too sarcastic and opinionated for them to let me in...hehe
that and I know what sex is like (obviously with 3 kids), they'd be buggin me for stories...KIDDING!

Very, very true. And what you say about throwing out the TV isn't so radical, really... although I imagine that your children would revolt if you did.

They would beat me in my sleep....

You've got some good points there!

But don't THROW OUT the TV - SELL it!

Then use the money to buy Christmas presents.

HAHAHAHA...u wanna buy?....hehe

FrenchAffair · Jul 11, 2007

Pretty much every Christian holiday has roots in Roman pagan festivles. When Christianity became the state religion of Roman Empire they just transfered alot of Pagan festivles onto certian Christian events.

Jesus wasn't actually born on december 25th, but it was close.

Exchangeing gifts, seeing Santa, haveing a Christmas tree there is nothing wrong with these things. Take them away and your children are just going to resent you.

New_Wineskin · Jul 11, 2007

Wow !! They usually start the Holloween threads before the Santa-mas ones . Is this a "Santa-mas in July" sort of thing ?

Oblio · Jul 11, 2007

It's part of the pagan invasion of CF since the doors have been taken off their hinges, next we'll see the bashing of Great and Holy Pascha.

Albion · Jul 11, 2007

jesusfreak3786 said:
In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas; its celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely.

Somehow, I just have to scratch my head at you concluding that "Christmas has only been celebrated in the US since apx. the mid 1800's." from reading the above passage which says the exact opposite thing!

christianmomof3 · Jul 11, 2007

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
The Puritans didn't celebrate Christians because Puritans were Calvinists who held to the regulative principle of worship, which states that any worship form or holiday not specifically mentioned in the Scriptures is not fit for Christians.

Anyway, it's been celebrated on December 25th for centuries. Yes, we know it's not the actual date. Yes, we know it was influenced by pagan practices.

So? What's your point?

Many Christians are not aware of the pagan origins of the holidays of Christmas and Easter and when they learn about them they pray and follow the Lord's leading about them.
Many of these Christians do decide that celebrating Christmas and Easter does not really honor the Lord.
For those who still continue to celebrate them, it is between them and the Lord.
I think it is good to help people who do not know the pagan origins of the holiday to become aware of them so that they can pray about it.
I do not think that people should condemn one another for either celebrating or not celebrating them.

FrenchAffair said:
Pretty much every Christian holiday has roots in Roman pagan festivles. When Christianity became the state religion of Roman Empire they just transfered alot of Pagan festivles onto certian Christian events.

Jesus wasn't actually born on december 25th, but it was close.

Exchangeing gifts, seeing Santa, haveing a Christmas tree there is nothing wrong with these things. Take them away and your children are just going to resent you.

It is correct that many Pagan concepts have been brought into the Christian religion over the years.

If children are upset about not having Santa and a Christmas tree, that has nothing to do with Christ.

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