Christians the new chosen???????

[Heavenhome]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
I vaguely remember reading something about this but thought that this view was a very isolated one, so was shocked and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about it.

I just said at the time, " no I don't agree with you" and she just went on to something else (how many vaccinations cause sterility and is how the population are going to be controlled).
Any opinions???

 

[amariselle]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
I vaguely remember reading something about this but thought that this view was a very isolated one, so was shocked and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about it.

I just said at the time, " no I don't agree with you" and she just went on to something else (how many vaccinations cause sterility and is how the population are going to be controlled).
Any opinions???

This is “replacement theology”, it is quite common. I disagree with this view as well. I do not believe that God is “done” with Israel. Our prayer for Israel should be Paul’s:

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. - Romans 10:1

We also do well to remember we should not “boast” against “the natural branches”, because we have been “grafted in” through faith. God has not “cast away His people.” (Romans 11)

 

[Southernscotty]

The Jewish people and Israel are God's chosen people, To change this is to change God's Word.
We gentiles are grafted in because their hearts are hardened for a time, But God is not done with them, In fact, He is just about to begin :]

 

[Job3315]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
I vaguely remember reading something about this but thought that this view was a very isolated one, so was shocked and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about it.

I just said at the time, " no I don't agree with you" and she just went on to something else (how many vaccinations cause sterility and is how the population are going to be controlled).
Any opinions???

The answer is in Romans 9,10 and 11.

 

[Dave L]

The way I understand, in Romans 11 God removed the unbelievers from Israel. Thousands of Jews including the apostles accepted their king Jesus and remained Israel. But God reattaches the broken off branches only through faith in Christ for the father's sakes.

Israel was always a Church State made up of believers and unbelievers alike. So when Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, only spiritual Israel remained. Physical unbelieving Israel, nearly destroyed in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, continued under the control of the Pharisees, calling itself Israel without biblical warrant. But biblical Israel is Christ and those who accepted him as the Messiah.

 

[συνείδησις]

GOD's chosen are those of faith and circumcision of the heart, both of Jews and gentiles.

 

[bcbsr]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
I vaguely remember reading something about this but thought that this view was a very isolated one, so was shocked and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about it.

I just said at the time, " no I don't agree with you" and she just went on to something else (how many vaccinations cause sterility and is how the population are going to be controlled).
Any opinions???

As I read it I take that both are "chosen" in a different sense. Jews were "chosen" to demonstrate that human sinful nature cannot be solved simply by implementing a theocracy. That is, the vanity of trying to be justified by the law. They achieved that demonstration. And were chosen to carry down the scriptures till the church age. They achieved that. Today most Jews are secular, even atheists. And those who are religious are of a Sadducean theology - no afterlife.

Christians are chosen to be conformed to the image of the Son of God, are justified by faith, and have eternal life.

 

[Hank77]

Rom 11:2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

So from this scripture we can see that even before the cross not all physical Israel was also the Israel of God.

This doesn't take away from anything that @Dave L said. I believe he is also correct.

 

[Heavenhome]

Thank you all, I noticed it is called "replacement theology", so is it a commonly held view in any particular denomination?
I asked our pastor who told me " I haven't really given it much thought".

 

[Hank77]

This is “replacement theology”, it is quite common. I disagree with this view as well. I do not believe that God is “done” with Israel. Our prayer for Israel should be Paul’s:

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. - Romans 10:1

We also do well to remember we should not “boast” against “the natural branches”, because we have been “grafted in” through faith. God has not “cast away His people.” (Romans 11)

I don't believe that God is done with the Jewish people either. I pray for them and have one particular Jewish man that I especially pray for.
I don't think we know enough about what the woman in the OP believes that we should say that she believes in 'replacement theology', that might not be true at all.
She may have been referring to the unbelieving Jews in the physical State of Israel compared to Christians, which would include the Messianic Jews living in the physical State of Israel.

How can a Gentile boast, we are only brought in by 'hanging on to the hem of a Jew's garment', that Jew being the Messiah. The scripture may also be referring to the Apostles.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

[Hank77]

Thank you all, I noticed it is called "replacement theology", so is it a commonly held view in any particular denomination?
I asked our pastor who told me " I haven't really given it much thought".

I would suggest that you ask this lady what SHE meant. I know I cannot make that determination with such little information.
OK if my pastor believed in it, I would leave that church. But many times people are mistaking 'covenant theology' as 'replacement theology'.


In conclusion, Covenant Theology views the covenants of Scripture as manifestations of either the CW or the CG. The entire story of redemptive history can be seen as God unfolding the CG from its nascent stages (Genesis 3:15) through to its fruition in Christ. Covenant Theology is, therefore, a very Christocentric way of looking at Scripture because it sees the OT as the promise of Christ and the NT as the fulfillment in Christ. Some have accused Covenant Theology as teaching what is called “Replacement Theology” (i.e., the Church replaces Israel). This couldn’t be further from the truth. Unlike Dispensationalism, Covenant Theology does not see a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church. Israel constituted the people of the God in the OT, and the Church (which is made up of Jew and Gentile) constitutes the people of God in the NT; both just make up one people of God (Ephesians 2:11-20). The Church doesn’t replace Israel; the Church is Israel and Israel is the Church (Galatians 6:16). All people who exercise the same faith as Abraham are part of the covenant people of God (Galatians 3:25-29).
https://www.gotquestions.org/covenant-theology.html

 

[amariselle]

I don't believe that God is done with the Jewish people either. I pray for them and have one particular Jewish man that I especially pray for.
I don't think we know enough about what the woman in the OP believes that we should say that she believes in 'replacement theology', that might not be true at all.

My comment was not directed at her per-se. The belief that the Church has re-placed Israel is indeed called "replacement theology". This is what the OP shares regarding what was said: "the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".

That is "replacement theology."

She may have been referring to the unbelieving Jews in the physical State of Israel compared to Christians, which would include the Messianic Jews living in the physical State of Israel.

I have no idea if that's what she meant, obviously. However, that is not what was shared here.

How can a Gentile boast, we are only brought in by 'hanging on to the hem of a Jew's garment', that Jew being the Messiah. The scripture may also be referring to the Apostles.

Romans 11:
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Indeed. A wonderful verse.

 

[Hank77]

My comment was not directed at her per-se. The belief that the Church has re-placed Israel is indeed called "replacement theology". This is what the OP shares regarding what was said: "the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".

That is "replacement theology."

So my concern is that the poster not judge her poorly and think that she is of that belief because she may not be.
Someone could make a simple statement like that but when you exam what they actually believe it not so simple.

 

[gomerian]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
I vaguely remember reading something about this but thought that this view was a very isolated one, so was shocked and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about it.

I just said at the time, " no I don't agree with you" and she just went on to something else (how many vaccinations cause sterility and is how the population are going to be controlled).
Any opinions???

Jesus says that His sheep hear His voice, and that He came only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Doesn't that mean everyone who hears Jesus by doing what Jesus says is genetic Israel? Noah was chosen because he heard God and did what God told him to do. Abraham was chosen for the same thing. IMHO, only those who are genetic Israel will hear Jesus voice. Since Israel has been scattered into every nation, Israel has mixed his blood with the blood of those nations, and probably now considers himself a genetic Japhethite or Hamite. And God will reconcile all of the nations of the world in this way... by the blood of Israel hidden in our veins.

I'm not saying that any Japhethite nation was planted by Israel, but that Israel has been planted in every nation of the world. God never changed His saying, that Israel alone has He chosen. Jesus never stopped going to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and He never sent His 11 anywhere else. Going to the nations doesn't mean anything less than seeking out the bloodline within the nations of the world.

 

[Heavenhome]

So my concern is that the poster not judge her poorly and think that she is of that belief because she may not be.
Someone could make a simple statement like that but when you exam what they actually believe it not so simple.

Don't worry about me thinking anything beyond what she said. We talk after church and I will specifically ask her what she meant.
My posting was more a question whether this view was held by many. I did not even know about the term replacement theology.

 

[1213]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
....

If Christians means in this, disciples of Jesus, they are Jews according to the Bible:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whosen praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree; don't boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you.
Romans 11:17-18

 

[Butch5]

Hi there , I have a question.
Today at church a lady was speaking to me at "coffee time" and made a statement about " the Jewish people are no longer Gods chosen, it is now Christians that are".
I vaguely remember reading something about this but thought that this view was a very isolated one, so was shocked and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about it.

I just said at the time, " no I don't agree with you" and she just went on to something else (how many vaccinations cause sterility and is how the population are going to be controlled).
Any opinions???

No, she's wrong. Israel is God's people. If one wants to be one of God's people they need to be in Israel.

 

[usexpat97]

Wait, how is this even considered "controversial theology"? The Bible straight up says Christians are God's chosen people. I Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12.

The Bible straight up and directly says just that, and it is "controversial theology"?

 

[Butch5]

Wait, how is this even considered "controversial theology"? The Bible straight up says Christians are God's chosen people. I Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12.

The Bible straight up and directly says just that, and it is "controversial theology"?

Actually, 1 Peter was written to believing Jews. The passage in Colossians says to put on like God's elect. It's not saying they are God's elect.

 

[usexpat97]

Why make this all complicated when it isn't? I will just quote Scripture directly. And if people derive wild, left-field conclusions from that, then well...I concede, then, that is what Controversial Theology is all about:

I Peter 1:1-2

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Peter spells out clearly exactly to whom he is writing, and no "Jewish Christians" are mentioned. In fact, note the one place conspicuously absent: Judea. Pretty much everyone BUT Israel.


I Peter 2:9 says straight up whom God's chosen people are:

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

But you say, "Oh, you are taking that out of context!" Very well. Moving on to verse 10:

10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Once you were not a people, huh?

Let the reader read Colossians 2 directly:

11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

I'm sorry, but it says straight up that Christians are God's chosen people. And here there is no Jew or Gentile.


Now, if the Bible has errors, or it's not to be taken literally and when it says, "You are God's chosen people", then that's only figurative and it really means, "No, not you are God's chosen people; someone else is", then...Controversial Theology it is.