Christians + Jewish holidays?

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EdmundBlackadderTheThird

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Christianity is the fulfillment of Judasim as a religion. Some of the holidays and festivals were set forth in the Old Law which we are no longer under so celebrating them has no purpose for us. The holidays we do celebrate are based around Christ and his work and while the dates for some have been moved around that is the main focal point of the holiday. Some Jewish holidays were instituted after Christ's work so they would have no bearing either on us as Christians. This is a very basic answer but i hope it suffices at least for the start of the discussion.
 
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LibertyChic

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backward in time said:
why dont christians celebrate the jewish holidays? isnt christianity a branch from judaism?(sp?) Jesus was jewish. he celebrated the jewish holidays. why dont christians? does it make sence?
God Bless,
Backward (aka. Brooke)

Ahhh...one of the very reasons I started on my new journey. ;)

Check out history...the history of the church and how it all started. Research why the holidays were changed. You will find your answer there.

Good luck to you and Shalom
 
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird

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We do celebrate Passover in a way, only we celebrate with something that was instituted by Christ. The Lord's Supper. If you look at it that is the time in which he broke the bread and offered the wine. Christ's sacrifice on the cross is more beautiful and important than the miracles performed rescuing the Jews from Egypt so we celebrate that instead.
 
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Dad Ernie

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backward in time said:
why dont christians celebrate the jewish holidays? isnt christianity a branch from judaism?(sp?) Jesus was jewish. he celebrated the jewish holidays. why dont christians? does it make sence?
Greetings Backward in time,

Christianity is NOT just a branch of Judaism. Judaism falls under the Old Covenant and with it comes feasts, sabbaths, holy days, and numerous rituals. Gentiles are NEVER encouraged to practice these activities. We are under a New Covenant, which does not require all these practices. We are bidden to: repent, be baptized, to celebrate the Lord's supper in rememberance of Him till He comes.

If you give it some thought, every nation has customs and rituals and practices that are part of their cultural heritage in rememberance of THEIR forefathers. So a Jewish Messianic may want to remember these feasts etc., in honor of THEIR forefathers, but they see that most all have been fulfilled in Christ.

Gentiles have an inheritance from Jesus forward. Your forefathers, if you are not a Jew may be honored by customs peculiar to your own nationality.

You may want to consider that Jesus was made a High Priest "after the order of Melchisedek", who was a gentile (of the nations) and NOT a Jew.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
 
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Dad Ernie said:
Greetings Backward in time,

Christianity is NOT just a branch of Judaism. Judaism falls under the Old Covenant and with it comes feasts, sabbaths, holy days, and numerous rituals. Gentiles are NEVER encouraged to practice these activities. We are under a New Covenant, which does not require all these practices. We are bidden to: repent, be baptized, to celebrate the Lord's supper in rememberance of Him till He comes.

If you give it some thought, every nation has customs and rituals and practices that are part of their cultural heritage in rememberance of THEIR forefathers. So a Jewish Messianic may want to remember these feasts etc., in honor of THEIR forefathers, but they see that most all have been fulfilled in Christ.

Gentiles have an inheritance from Jesus forward. Your forefathers, if you are not a Jew may be honored by customs peculiar to your own nationality.

You may want to consider that Jesus was made a High Priest "after the order of Melchisedek", who was a gentile (of the nations) and NOT a Jew.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
I complete agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.

My sister told me she went to a Messianic service once and she got goosebumps because she knew this was how Jesus worshipped. :bow: He didn't worship as we do, but like the Jews. It brought a whole new appreciation to her faith. I had never thought of that!

Be blessed,

WashedClean
 
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TWells

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why dont christians celebrate the jewish holidays? isnt christianity a branch from judaism?(sp?) Jesus was jewish. he celebrated the jewish holidays. why dont christians? does it make sence?
God Bless,
Backward (aka. Brooke)


As was stated earlier the early Christians saw Christ as the fullfillment of many of the Jewish holidays. Most likely the early Christians did continue to celebrate them till Christian Jews began to be expelled from the Temple. This idea of fullfillment is especially prevelant in John's Gospel. The central Jewish holiday "Passover", Christians did keep but was celebrated as under a new Exodous and with new theological meaning - namely that it was the body and blood of Christ Himself. Christians also continued to worship liturgically as the Jews did and began creating their own holidays celebrating various events in Christs life and of the Saints.
 
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird

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There has been nothing at all anti-semetic stated in this thread at all and at the risk of the moderators wrath I think it is totally inappropriate for a moderator to make blanket accusations like this in a public forum towards the entirety of Christianity. It is rude and completely uncalled for. I have nothing but love for the Jewish people and as I am not Jewish I do not celebrate their holidays. Oddly enough I do not celebrate Canadian holidays either and no-one has accused me of hating the Canadians.
 
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TWells

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one word: antisemitism.

Sorry, but thats a completely stupid statement.

The Essenes believed they were true Israel as well (as did a number of other 2nd Temple groups) and that God would vindicate them and destroy the Temple cult. Were they anti-semitic as well? Christianity was one of many Jewish groups within 2nd Temple Judaism. The difference being that they believed Messiah had come - and adjusted their view of the Law accordingly.
 
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simchat_torah

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Ok, fine... I'll provide proof ;)

The following is the letter sent by St. Constantine to all the bishops and other leaders who could not attend the Council of Nicea:
When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable, than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom [the calculation] of the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,1 we may transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter, which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to the present day [according to the day of the week]. We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and more convenient course (the order of the days of the week); and consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without their direction we could not keep this feast. How can they be in the right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been led by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them? They do not possess the truth in this Easter question; for, in their blindness and repugnance to all improvements, they frequently celebrate two passovers in the same year. We could not imitate those who are openly in error. How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most certainly blinded by error? for to celebrate the passover twice in one year is totally inadmissible. But even if this were not so, it would still be your duty not to tarnish your soul by communications with such wicked people [the Jews]. Besides, consider well, that in such an important matter, and on a subject of such great solemnity, there ought not to be any division. Our Saviour has left us only one festal day of our redemption, that is to say, of his holy passion, and he desired [to establish] only one Catholic Church. Think, then, how unseemly it is, that on the same day some should be fasting whilstothers are seated at a banquet; and that after Easter, some should be rejoicing at feasts, whilst others are still observing a strict fast. For this reason, a Divine Providence wills that this custom should be rectified and regulated in a uniform way; and everyone, I hope, will agree upon this point. As, on the one hand, it is our duty not to have anything in common with the murderers of our Lord; and as, on the other, the custom now followed by the Churches of the West, of the South, and of the North, and by some of those of the East, is the most acceptable, it has appeared good to all; and I have been guarantee for your consent, that you would accept it with joy, as it is followed at Rome, in Africa, in all Italy, Egypt, Spain, Gaul, Britain, Libya, in all Achaia, and in the dioceses of Asia, of Pontus, and Cilicia. You should consider not only that the number of churches in these provinces make a majority, but also that it is right to demand what our reason approves, and that we should have nothing in common with the Jews. To sum up in few words: By the unanimous judgment of all, it has been decided that the most holy festival of Easter should be everywhere celebrated on one and the same day, and it is not seemly that in so holy a thing there should be any division. As this is the state of the case, accept joyfully the divine favour, and this truly divine command; for all which takes place in assemblies of the bishops ought to be regarded as proceedingfrom the will of God. Make known to your brethren what has been decreed, keep this most holy day according to the prescribed mode; we can thus celebrate this holy Easter day at the same time, if it is granted me, as I desire, to unite myself with you; we canrejoice together, seeing that the divine power has made use of our instrumentality for destroying the evil designs of the devil, and thus causing faith, peace, and unity to flourish amongst us. May God graciously protect you, my beloved brethren.
-Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib. iii., 18-20.


hmmmmm.... let's review, shall we? Easter was chosen for its date because:

1) "It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom [the calculation] of the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded."

2) "We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews"

3) "we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews"

4) "How can they be in the right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been led by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them?"

5) "How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most certainly blinded by error?"

6) "But even if this were not so, it would still be your duty not to tarnish your soul by communications with such wicked people [the Jews]. "

7) "As, on the one hand, it is our duty not to have anything in common with the murderers of our Lord"

8) "but also that it is right to demand what our reason approves, and that we should have nothing in common with the Jews."



You see, the original feasts of the Bible were done away with because of antisemitism.

Plain and simple history. Am I making blanket statements? Or am I properly observing history?

you make the call.
Shalom,
Yafet.
 
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simchat_torah

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Well, the above was simply concerning the feasts, how about if we delve into a touch more of 'christian history' concerning the Jews... shall we?

325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter
from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond
measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of
the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious
people..."


367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people
who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.


380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue;
he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God.


415: St.Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot,
who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures
and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."


418: St.Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of
a synagogue:

"If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's
fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable
disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it
deserves."


694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of
the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen,
Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual
slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of
Jesus.


1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes


1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal
of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a
second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!"
12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade.
This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.


1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central
synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back
into the burning building.


1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that
"the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude
because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose
death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..." thus began the slavery of Jewish people to Catholics in the 13th century.


1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews
and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in
the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished
from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries
(hmmm.... sounds familiar, eh nazis?)


1227: The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This
requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the
oval badge to a Star of David.


1347 +: Ships from the Far East carried rats into Mediterranean ports. The
rats carried the Black Death. At first, fleas spread the disease from the
rats to humans. As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five years, the death toll had reached 25 million. England took 2 centuries for its population levels to recover from the plague. People looked around for someone to blame.
They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the
disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws,
which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that
Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by
poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder
and burn the Jews.

In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000;

Rue Brule...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with
blazing wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." In Strausberg 2,000 Jews were burned.
In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..."
12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
(the list goes on and on and on... sad isn't it)


This is the last one....

1543: Martin Luther, distressed by the reluctance of Jews to convert to
Christianity wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :
"What then shall we Christians do with this ******, rejected race of Jews?

First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...

Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed...
They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies.

Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in
which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.

Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach
any more...

Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden
to the Jews...

Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables
of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe
keeping...
 
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TWells

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We were discussing early Christianity not the dispute over the date of Pascha 2 and 1/2 centuries later.

Have there been anti-semitic Christians over the centuries? ...Of course there has.

Have Christians persecuted Jews?.... Yes.

Did the Jews persecute Christians as well at times?..... Yes.

Have their been anti-Christian sentiments in Jewish writings? .....Of course there has.

Does either Judaism or Christianity condone racism of any kind? .... No.

Plain and simple history.

Are you seriously that naive?

Am I making blanket statements?

Of course you are. I could just as easily cut paste a bunch Jewish writings. Get over your hate.

Or am I properly observing history?

Having actually studied historical methodology myself.....no your not.
 
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simchat_torah

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No, we were discussing why christianity and Judaism have different feasts. The Original believers were messianics, and celebrated the Jewish festivals. It had nothing to do with cultural expression, but rather their form of worship. It was later... aka the 5th century (as I pointed out with Constantine) that passover was done away with and Easter was instituted.

Why were the Jewish feasts done away with?

again, history only shows us one answer: antisemitism.
 
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simchat_torah

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Quote:
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Or am I properly observing history?
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Having actually studied historical methodology myself.....no your not.
Having multiple degrees in history and philosophy, I'd say I am.
 
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TWells

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The Original believers were messianics.

Gee, ya think? Becuase the early Christians believed YHWH's rule had begun they believed the time for the Gentiles to be brought in had dawned and that it wasnt neccessary for the Gentiles to observe parts of the Law.

It was later... aka the 5th century (as I pointed out with Constantine) that passover was done away with and Easter was instituted.

Which shows even more that you really dont have much of an idea of what your talking about. "Easter" was a latin term used by the western church, the East till this day observes the original calender date and still refers to it as Pascha. Does that mean the early Christians observed it in the same way? No, they believed it represented different things theologically - primarily the new Exodous. Not to meantion that it was the Body and Blood of Christ. By the way, the Council of Nicaea was in the AD 325.

Why were the Jewish feasts done away with?

Becuase the early Jewish Christians believed that the eschaton had come that the feast were fullfilled - therefore unneccesary.

again, history only shows us one answer: antisemitism.

I think your willingness to stereotype others as racists speaks more about you than anything else.

Are you that ignorant?

I provide solid historical evidence and you deny it?

that, my friend, is ignorance... and worse yet... ignorance by choice.

Did I ever deny there were antisemitic Christians? No.....Do you deny there were anti-Christian jews? Do you deny they persecuted the early Christians? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

Having multiple degrees in history and philosophy, I'd say I am.

Riiight.....Sure cant tell from your posts.

Im going to bow out of this thread now. Best Wishes.
 
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simchat_torah

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By the way, the Council of Nicaea was in the AD 325.

I know. Blame it on slip of the tongue, i meant 4th century.

Which shows even more that you really dont have much of an idea of what your talking about. "Easter" was a latin term used by the western church, the East till this day observes the original calender date and still refers to it as Pascha.
Pascha is the latin representation of the christian passover, yes. However, Easter derived from pagan influences, specifically the g-dess Ishtar (also known as Oestre in Germany).

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Quote:
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Why were the Jewish feasts done away with?
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Becuase the early Jewish Christians believed that the eschaton had come that the feast were fullfilled - therefore unneccesary.
This may be your theological standpoint, however, historically the Jewish feasts were done away with because of antisemitism.

I think your willingness to stereotype others as racists speaks more about you than anything else.

I see the problem here. You are assuming I am calling you (or modern day christians) a racist. This is quite incorrect. I am merely pointing out historically certain decisions in the christian church were done because of racist reasons.

This, hopefully, does not reflect upon you.

Did I ever deny there were antisemitic Christians? No.....Do you deny there were anti-Christian jews? Do you deny they persecuted the early Christians? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black.
Not at all...
This is a false comparison.
Christians based theology off of their racist beliefs. Jews did not.
While both may have expressed racist actions, only christianity formed their theology off of racist persuations.
 
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