Christians do not "own" morality

[PsychoSarah]

Oh for Pete's sake Syd, why don't you read a little bit more into what I said. I am referring to the 200 flood myths all over the world. Give me a break. I said I am not 100% sure on the cataclysm, therefore I rely on the flood myths all over the world, archeology, and geology.

Listen, if you are so convinced there is no God, why do you care what I think or believe. I already told you it's your freedom to believe whatever you want. So what do you care what I believe or don't believe? Seriously? I can't prove anything 100% and neither can you. Honestly what do you care?

Floods happen all over the world, and people like to live by bodies of water, where flooding is even more likely. It shouldn't be surprising that there are so many flood myths all over the world; they are basically extreme exaggerations of really bad local floods.

Personally, I don't care what you believe so long as you don't push it on others.

 

[Cearbhall]

Oh for Pete's sake, seriously? As if I need a lecture from you? And I'm the one that's self righteous? Really? Woman do you even know me as a person? The answer to that is a big fat NO. It's not your job to get me to "think" about my beliefs and how they affect my life. What kind of arrogant crap is that? As if I haven't gone over the god question my entire life. Oh but I have to "think some more" because I just couldn't possibly be right according to your world view. Do you people get it that it's not cool to force your agenda down people's throats or get them to "think" as if they don't have the capacity already? What the hell is wrong with you people? I have repeatedly told you it's your right to believe however you want. Who gave you the magic god/godless wand and granted you all authority on world religions? What a bunch of sanctimonious crap.

You may want to take a break from this thread if it's upsetting you this much.

I enjoy debating.

I enjoy seeing how religious people think.

I also think it's important to have people think about their beliefs, not necessarily change them in any way but to have a good grasp on what they base their lives on.

Same. Part of the reason I'm here is to study different cultures.

 

[Ruthie24]

Floods happen all over the world, and people like to live by bodies of water, where flooding is even more likely. It shouldn't be surprising that there are so many flood myths all over the world; they are basically extreme exaggerations of really bad local floods.

Personally, I don't care what you believe so long as you don't push it on others.

I don't push my beliefs on others as a general rule. In fact, I believe it's up to every person to find out what they believe/don't believe. I can't tell someone about Christ if I don't know them, if they aren't interested, if they don't want to hear it etc. Plus I think it's rude. I personally think that coming from a loving place of being present for others in their lives when they are going through adversity and helping them in whatever they are going through is being more Christ like or teaching about Christ than going door to door and handing someone a pamphlet and telling them their gonna burn in hell if they don't get saved.

 

[pyramid33]

We so own morality.

 

[Ruthie24]

Ruthie,

We don't know you personally, true, but every time you post something on this board, you give clues about yourself and that is true for all of us.

One way we can perceive you, is how you support the claims you make and whether they are based on objective evidence or subjective evidence. You claim to have objective evidence, but you have only presented subjective evidence, which is more personally driven, as opposed to objective evidence, which can be verified and plainly seen by all.

Let me finish with this, I would have no quarrel with you, if you said; I believe what I do on faith and I realize there is not any objective evidence, but I have my own subjective evidence that I rely on. Also, I can understand why others may disagree with me, but I have faith in what I believe and it works for me.

You don't do this though, you claim you are baffled as to why people aren't connected with the spiritual side like you and you claim to have objective evidence to support your claims, which you don't. I have yet to see any believer, produce objective evidence to support their claims, because none exists. Nothing wrong with believing on faith and personal subjective evidence, if it makes you a better person, just don't be baffled when others disagree with you, because they have a different method of verifying truths as compared to you.

Any comments on the paper I posted from Christian geologists in regards to the flood?

I was finally able to download the article just now. It's 11 pages long, I need to read it over and get the gist of what they are talking about. Geology is really not my subject, but I love how it applies to ancient archeology and history, so I have to really dig into this subject matter. I particularly love underwater archeology, that's where I've found most of my evidence, but then again, I'm not 100% convinced of anything because there is so much information out there. I'm just not going to make up my mind right now.

I know that you come from a medical type profession and you see objective evidence maybe from that framework. I come from a behavioral health profession and I also understand the concept between objective and subjective definitions as I write progress notes and assessments etc all the time.

I said before, when it comes to ancient history, scriptures, etc. you cannot rely on the definition of objective evidence you are referring too. The medical model of objective (what you observe directly etc) doesn't work. The witnesses don't exist anymore, there are lots of theories to wade through, the evidence is ancient, and all we can rely on is how the scholars interpret what's out there. The scholars are also biased and have their own agendas. You believe one camp or another, one division or another. For me, I want to see what both camps have to say before I make up my mind. Because of this, I try to glean the evidence they find from all sides. I know there are a lot of theories about the flood/non flood etc, young earth/old earth etc. I'm not of the camp where I believe we are a young earth. I'm not inclined to believe 100% on anything except Christ Jesus because we as human beings are incredibly fallible and subject to agendas. I'm also not going to tell you, to believe as I do.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Not sure why so many are arguing. Let non-believers believe what they want. When they die they won't be able to change their minds when seeing God. They have their chance while alive.

 

[steve_bakr]

It is my impression that non-believers in CF are often out to discredit Christianity, Scripture, and undermine the faith of individual Christians. While I have engaged non-believers in discussions before, it is not something that I recommend as a general rule. It is not as if you will change their mind by giving your testimony. They have their own agenda.

 

[quatona]

Not sure why so many are arguing. Let non-believers believe what they want. When they die they won't be able to change their minds when seeing God. They have their chance while alive.

You almost sound like that is a comforting idea to you.

 

[quatona]

It is my impression that non-believers in CF are often out to discredit Christianity, Scripture, and undermine the faith of individual Christians. While I have engaged non-believers in discussions before, it is not something that I recommend as a general rule. It is not as if you will change their mind by giving your testimony. They have their own agenda.

Yeah, it´s a different situation than when preaching to the choir, for you.

 

[Gadarene]

It is my impression that non-believers in CF are often out to discredit Christianity, Scripture, and undermine the faith of individual Christians. While I have engaged non-believers in discussions before, it is not something that I recommend as a general rule. It is not as if you will change their mind by giving your testimony. They have their own agenda.

Discussion is bad, ooga booga booga.

 

[Ruthie24]

It is my impression that non-believers in CF are often out to discredit Christianity, Scripture, and undermine the faith of individual Christians. While I have engaged non-believers in discussions before, it is not something that I recommend as a general rule. It is not as if you will change their mind by giving your testimony. They have their own agenda.

Totally agree

 

[Gadarene]

Ah, the last refuge of those incompetent at arguing their point.

 

[bhsmte]

It is my impression that non-believers in CF are often out to discredit Christianity, Scripture, and undermine the faith of individual Christians. While I have engaged non-believers in discussions before, it is not something that I recommend as a general rule. It is not as if you will change their mind by giving your testimony. They have their own agenda.

I could say the opposite about a select group of Christians on this board, that will state; non-believers can't be as moral as I am, they are being led by evil etc.. and this happens quite often.

And I would agree, there are probably an equal amount of non-believers on this board that do try to discredit religion. Nothing wrong with pointing out why religion doesn't make sense though, it all depends how one does it.

I have no issue with people who believe on faith, just don't act like you are better than non-believers, act baffled if people disagree with you and or claim there is objective evidence to support your belief. Beyond that, I have no problems with people who can be respectful, with their faith beliefs.

 

[steve_bakr]

Yeah, it´s a different situation than when preaching to the choir, for you.

I've been in my share of discussions. I'm just saying that it is generally not a profitable undertaking for many Christians under the circumstances I described.

 

[steve_bakr]

Discussion is bad, ooga booga booga.

I'm not sure that's an intelligible comment, but it mighy lend credibility to my position.

 

[steve_bakr]

I could say the opposite about a select group of Christians on this board, that will state; non-believers can't be as moral as I am, they are being led by evil etc.. and this happens quite often.

And I would agree, there are probably an equal amount of non-believers on this board that do try to discredit religion. Nothing wrong with pointing out why religion doesn't make sense though, it all depends how one does it.

I have no issue with people who believe on faith, just don't act like you are better than non-believers, act baffled if people disagree with you and or claim there is objective evidence to support your belief. Beyond that, I have no problems with people who can be respectful, with their faith beliefs.

Sure, these might be some guidelines for a better atmosphere in which a discussion could take place.

 

[Gadarene]

I'm not sure that's an intelligible comment, but it mighy lend credibility to my position.

Given that you think belief in your god changing a person is evidence for your religion but were somewhat nonplussed when it was pointed out that all religions can claim the same thing, I'm not really too concerned about what you consider to be an intelligible comment.

It's quite common for people incapable of constructing a cogent argument to keep constantly blaming their opponents' alleged unwillingness to listen for their own failures. There are several examples of this in this thread already.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

It is my impression that non-believers in CF are often out to discredit Christianity, Scripture, and undermine the faith of individual Christians. While I have engaged non-believers in discussions before, it is not something that I recommend as a general rule. It is not as if you will change their mind by giving your testimony. They have their own agenda.

I've been in my share of discussions. I'm just saying that it is generally not a profitable undertaking for many Christians under the circumstances I described.

I agree and Scripture tells us why non-believers are like this.

 

[Gadarene]

I agree and Scripture tells us why non-believers are like this.

Yes, yes - don't actually listen to what nonbelievers say their reasoning is. Use your little book to keep concocting reasons to avoid discussion.

 

[quatona]

I've been in my share of discussions. I'm just saying that it is generally not a profitable undertaking for many Christians under the circumstances I described.

Yes, sure. Depending on their purposes and mindsets, it may or may not appear profitable for people to partake in discussions.