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Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

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WailingWall

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Go Holo !!!
Live by the Spirit - not the written code .

When you say the written code i assume you mean the law. The commandments?

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT!
 
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WailingWall

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I believe the "Royal law" or "law of liberty" isn't the ten commandments or any other part of the law.

JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? WORK? Bad word for some.


JAMES 2 [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all. You are a transgressor.

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

JOHN 8 [33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? [34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

So, according to Jesus its not the commandments that are considered “bondage”. Its quite the opposite. If you are walking at liberty, you are keeping the commandments. Its the breaking of the 10 commandments which points to your bondage. Its sin. Does that make sense? Sure does. Could you imagine claiming the keeping of Gods commandments is bondage?


DEUT.13 [3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[4] YE SHALL WALK AFTER THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND FEAR HIM, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.[5] AND THAT PROPHET, OR THAT DREAMER OF DREAMS, SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH; BECAUSE HE HATH SPOKEN TO TURN YOU AWAY FROM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH BROUGHT YOU OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, AND REDEEMED YOU OUT OF THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

You have been redeemed of the house of bondage (sin). So walk after your God, and keep His commandments. YUP! No doubt.
 
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WailingWall

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They want us to think that we were made to observe the Sabbath and not that the Sabbath was made for *us*.

So you do realize the sabbath was made for you. Thats a good start. So if God made the sabbath rest for you and me why would you look to another day (Hebrews 4). Do you think the day God made for you is somehow inferior to the day man came up with?
 
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WailingWall

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Ya see this scripture at baseball games and most everywhere else. Wouldnt it be great if thats all it took (vs. 16-17-18). Most everyone would be saved. But...Jesus said (and i believe Him) that only a few would be saved.

JOHN 3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him MIGHT BE SAVED. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, THAT LIGHT IS COME INTO THE WORLD, AND MEN LOVED DARKNESS RATHER THAN LIGHT, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

If you go on to read the next 3 verses in John (19-21) you will see that unbelievers have NO LIGHT IN THEM because they prefer darkness. Could it be there are some that say they believe and think they believe, but actually believe not due to their deeds? Their works?

ISAIAH 8 [20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.[21] And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.[22] And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

As you can see this scripture from Isaiah is not about ancient Israel. In fact it has not yet come to pass. It will come to pass on “The Day of the Lord”. The day Jesus returns to this earth. To the law (10 commandments) and the testimony (Jesus) If they speak not according to these words THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM. Just as the WORD says in John 3.

ACTS 17 [10] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. [11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, whether those things were so. [12] Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Many will claim that Isaiah 8 is old testament and may be ignored. Im not sure where the many came up with that train of thought. The old testament scriptures were the only scriptures around during the time of Paul. In Acts 17 you find a people who searched the old testament scriptures daily to see if Paul was telling the truth. By testing Pauls words in this way, many came to believe. Nothings changed since Pauls time. Scripture should be of no private interpretation. Scripture will interpret scripture.
 
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New_Wineskin

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When you say the written code i assume you mean the law. The commandments?

Generally . But , given how people view the Scriptures as being an authority - it goes for all of them - not just the Law .


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AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT!

The Word of God is great . But , what you wrote had nothing to do with it - and not in English , either . The Word of God is much better than the Scriptures .
 
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New_Wineskin

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So you do realize the sabbath was made for you. Thats a good start. So if God made the sabbath rest for you and me why would you look to another day (Hebrews 4). Do you think the day God made for you is somehow inferior to the day man came up with?

When did I say that I was looking for another day ? I won't worship *any* day - I worship the Lord . I won't allow you to trick me into making me think I earn salvation by observing a few parts of the Law and urinating on the rest .

You also are twisting it around as if to say that *I* was made for the Sabbath by implying that *I* can't look to another day *if* I so choose . If the Sabbath was made for "man" , it is a gift that the "man" can use or not as they want .


Oh ... why do you violate the Sabbath commands while you push them on others ?
 
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tulc

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Thank you and same to you. They are going to criticize us for posting here during Sabbath hours. Like the pharisees criticized Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.

...uhmmm it's you who seems to think we desecrate the Sabbath (exactly how we do that is still a little unclear I'm afraid ) so why would we criticize you for something we don't think of as a sin?
tulc(good shabbos to you both!)
 
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New_Wineskin

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Thats not true. "Keep My commandments" is written time and time again in the new testament.

That is a lie for two reasons . One - "my commandments" is only mentioned *3* times in the Jimmy version ( the one you use ) in the newer writings . And, all three times are within a small section of *one* writing . Second , Jesus was speaking and was not discussing the Law . If so , He certainly wouldn't have stated "*my* commandments" . He would have stated "the Law" or something similar .
 
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WailingWall

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Thats not true. "Keep My commandments" is written time and time again in the new testament.

That is a lie for two reasons . One - "my commandments" is only mentioned *3* times in the Jimmy version ( the one you use ) in the newer writings.

A lie!

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

ARE YOU CHASTENED BY GOD
HEBREWS 12 [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

DEUT.8 [5] Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.[6] Therefore thou shalt KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO GRACE WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 6 [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

WHATS TO HAPPEN ON THE “DAY OF THE LORD”? THE DAY JESUS RETURNS!
EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to GET DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying,

You can read about those ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES in the new testament. Seek! Can you worship God in vain by following the commandments of man? Where did God change His sabbath day? Has the whole world been decieved as the bible says? Id love to hear your answers.

Praise be the Lord!
 
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WailingWall

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Thats not true. "Keep My commandments" is written time and time again in the new testament.

That is a lie for two reasons . One - "my commandments" is only mentioned *3* times in the Jimmy version ( the one you use ) in the newer writings.

I suppose if it was mentiomed 4 times you might believe
 
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holo

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No, it is because I don't want to face the penalty of breaking it. I don't want to go to jail.
My point is that since you ARE under the law, you have to try and keep it. Likewise, if I were under the ten commandments, I would have to try and keep them - and therein lies the problem -

If Sin leads to death then why should i want to transgress the law.
You don't WANT to transgress the law, the law is good. But when the commandment comes, sin springs to life. When Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat a certain fruit, that was the snake's opportunity. Did it maybe not look tempting? When you tell a child that he's not allowed to do something, what will he start thinking about? Doing what you told him not to do. When God said, "do not covet", what did Paul start thinking about? Things to covet.

So the commandment is good, but it's also the power of sin. The more law, the more power for sin. That's because the law will take your eyes OFF God and OFF righteousness, and make you focus on sin and on yourself. If your goal is to "keep the law" as best as you can, you are in reality only pouring petrol on the fire.

I see your point, but I don't agree While the ten commandments can be called the "backbone" or the base of the entire law, the law was still a whole.

But when I think of it, maybe it doesn't matter. People often call the ten commandments "the moral law" and we gentiles were never under the mosaic law anyway. But we were under "the demands of the law, written in their hearts" - just because we weren't given the law, we still had knowledge of good and evil and were morally culpable.

Why would God make the law to make us stand guilty. That is a result but that was not his motive. That to me is an insult to God.
Well, that's what the bible says though...

Romans 7:13
Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

The thing is, God gave the law because people asked for it. We aren't created to know about good and evil, we are created to know Him - period. It's the very knowledge of good and evil that destroys us. But people would rather live religiously. "Tell us what to do and we shall do it!" "Tell us how to achieve perfection and holiness!" Well, God answered that prayer. He gave them His standard. Not in order that they should achieve holiness, but to make it abundantly clear that we CAN'T. To make it clear that we must trust in HIM to GIVE us righteousness.

But even to this day, people are trying to KEEP the law, believing that it will somehow make them better people. But again, the reality is the exact opposite - it doesn't make you any better, rather it reveals your nakedness, just like with Adam and Eve. And it will continue to do that as long as you insist on trying to keep it.

Then David and Daniel and the saints in Revelation are real hardcore sinners then. True the commandments is the power of sin will not have dominion over us because we are under grace and not condemned by the law.
It's not the condemnation of the law that makes us sinners. It condemns us when we sin in the first place. When you are under the law you will be a slave to sin. Paul said that apart from the law, sin is dead. So when you DIE to the law and stop having anything to do with it, sin also dies. I see it in my own life all the time. The more I try to live according to some rule or commandment, the more I sin. And the more I live according to the knowledge of righteousness, the less I sin.

I see I misunderstood what you meant by "subject to".

But I agree with what you say. The carnal man is under the law, and under condemnation. It is impossible to please God by means of trying to keep the law.

When I look at the text in Timothy I must consider all that is said about the law. And Timothy 1 verse 8 says that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully. How can the Law be good for a sinner?
It's good in the sense that it KILLS the sinner so that he may be born again. It doesn't make him more righteous, it only makes him even more sinful. The law is supposed to kill us. That would be the "lawful" use of the law, if you ask me.

It must be good for the righteous. I am trying to understand verses 7 and 8 which confuses me when read together. Since you have need referring to this text since day one since i've been on this forum you can probably clear that up for me.
In both my interpretation and my experience, the law is not at all good for the righteous. The law is still the power of sin. And hey, I AM righteous, what should I need the law for anyway?

I think that the beginning of 1 Timothy is talking about all those who are trying to teach each other from, or based on, the law. Teaching each other how to live, based on what the law says. Which is futile and actually contrary to the gospel, because the gospel isn't "do this" or "don't do that", but simply "believe in Him whom He has sent!"

We are supposed to live not according to the written code, but according to the Spirit. We are supposed to have the knowledge of righteousness, not the knowledge of good and evil.
 
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holo

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So don't you think that God's 10 commandments were special. Don't you think they were seen as being above the other laws because he wrote it himself?
They're of course special in that regard, but that doesn't mean the law is a whole or that we can safely ignore the other commandments in it, or that those ten commandments were given to anybody but the jews or that they are part of the new covenant.

In the New covenant, God writes his law on our hearts. The question is, is this the whole 613 laws are are those the laws that he wrote with his own hand. I believe those laws are the 10 commandments and maybe more as the spirit leads.
I halfway agree.

That is, I don't find that there's any form of "thou shalt" or "thou shalt not" in my heart. The reason I don't steal, for example, isn't because there's a commandment in my heart that tells me not to, but because my heart has been filled with love for my fellow man.

BEFORE I was born again, there WAS such a commandment in my heart (the whole "the demands of the law, written in their hearts" thing), which worked just like the written law worked for Paul - it made him covet. I'm as free as Adam was before he ate the forbidden fruit

Not under the law. You are not under the law but because of love you fulfill the law. What law do you think God was talking about then he said that he will write his laws on our hearts?
I think it's a law that can't be reduced to, or described with, a list of commandments. Like I mentioned above, it's not a list of commandments or demands that motivates my actions. It's... love, basically.

The law stimulates sin in the carnal man and not the man led by the spirit. The man led by the spirit is not condemned by the law because he is under grace. Jesus is much more than just that but he is what you said and more.


The law does indeed stimulate sin in the carnal man, that's why it's so important that we keep dying daily. When people talk about dying daily, I think most of us picture some sort of effort and struggle. But it's not. It's the exact opposite. It means NOT trying to achieve this or that, it means NOT trying to keep some law. It means to lay down and let Christ stand up. It means to let go, and allow HIM to live in and through you and motivate your behaviour.

I find that every single time I try to live up to some sort of standard (be it my own or something I find in the law), I fail. And should I succeed, I only end up growing proud and looking down on those who don't.

That is because there is now neither Jew or Greek. Now Abraham's seed consist of anyone who is Christ's. And the New Covenant was made with part of Abraham's seed of promise.
I believe so too. If it was good enough for Abraham, it's good enough for us. Only that we are even better off than he was

Because the 10 commandments show Love to God and Love to fellow man. And those two headings are what Jesus preached about.
Yes, but Christ Himself showed love a thousand times better and clearer than the commandments do. And unlike the law, the love of Christ will actually make us better people. To a person who loves, the ten commandments are basically irrelevant. It's like telling a mother "hey, I demand that you love your child!" - as if she needs to be told.

I mean when he said "If you love me keep my commandments".
I have two points to make about that;
what are His commandments?
and
notice that He says, "IF you love me, then DO such and such" - Jesus preached on the law, He explained it and established how strict and uncompromising it really is. If you wanted to be accepted by God, you would have to go ahead and do this and forsake that etc etc. For example, gouging out your eye if it led you to sin, and giving away all your possessions etc etc. This was the OLD covenant. The gospel wasn't revealed or known yet.

But AFTER the cross, Jesus doesn't love us because we are good at keeping His commandments - no, WE love HIM because HE loved US FIRST. That's the gospel right there!

It depends on the intent of the person. A lawkeeper does not have to be a loving person but a loving person has to keep the law. I am not sure why you said that.
I just mean that trying to keep the law doesn't make you love anyone. Well, actually, the law DOES demand that you do love, but that's just the problem - you can't be commanded to love. We love for one reason only - that He loved us first. That's the only way we CAN love.
 
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holo

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I agree. Any true Christian will have a deep sense of our sinfulness in the presence of Jesus the Sinless One.
They shouldn't. Who is accusing you? Jesus? No, He's your lawyer. He IS your righteousness. Doe God accuse you? No, because your righteousness is Christ, so if your righteousness was less than perfect it would mean that Christ is less than perfect.

God does not declare you a sinner. He has already declared you righteous!

The one who is accusing you is the devil, and nobody but the devil. And the devil is a liar, and he has been defeated and disarmed.
 
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holo

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The ten commandments aren't a law of liberty, and neither am I going to be judged according to it.

Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? WORK? Bad word for some.
Maybe. There's no lack of works in my life, but none of them have to do with the law.

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all. You are a transgressor.
Are you going to be judged according to the ten commandments? Is it a law of liberty to you?

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted
Apparently, it can

Keeping the law wouldn't be bondage. If you kept it, you wouldn't need Christ anyway.

But you don't keep the law. You never have, and you never will. The law wasn't given to make you righteous, it was given to make sin exceedingly sinful. It was given to KILL you so that you may find your righteousness in Christ and nowhere else.

You have been redeemed of the house of bondage (sin). So walk after your God, and keep His commandments. YUP! No doubt.
His commandments? You mean ALL His commandments? Or just a few of them?
 
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holo

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Are you an Israelite? Are you a heir to Moses?
 
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holo

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Yes, I'm absolutely sure. The law was given about 400 years after Abraham was dead.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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...uhmmm it's you who seems to think we desecrate the Sabbath (exactly how we do that is still a little unclear I'm afraid ) so why would we criticize you for something we don't think of as a sin?
tulc(good shabbos to you both!)

Not you tulc. I was referring to the person who posted post #357
 
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PROPHECYKID

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My point is that since you ARE under the law, you have to try and keep it. Likewise, if I were under the ten commandments, I would have to try and keep them - and therein lies the problem -

Your definition of being under the law here is different to the one you gave before. Here is seems like you point to being under the law to mean abiding by the law. But we agreed that being under the law does not mean abiding by the law. When a man is under the condemnation of the law, keeping the law would not help. The only thing that can remove such a person is grace. I am not looking for lawkeeping to save me but grace by my faith. Lawkeeping comes from love.


What made the tree wrong to eat. The command by God or God himself? If God himself then if he did not warn them not to eat of that tree then they would have to pay the price of something that they were not warned about. What is the difference between the 10 commandments and anything else you know is wrong. The devil will tempt you based on what you know is wrong. You only yield to temptation when you take your eyes of Jesus. Paul never said he started thinking about things to covet but he did know coveting through the law. Knowledge of sin by the law does not mean you must sin. It means you need to look to Jesus and depend on Jesus to not sin.

I see your point, but I don't agree While the ten commandments can be called the "backbone" or the base of the entire law, the law was still a whole.

The law was not seen as a whole by Jesus though. He clearly despised eye for an eye law and stone a woman in adultery law. But he kept the Sabbath and preached thou shall not kill and murder. Jesus started to highlight the results of love. If the Law can in no wise be separated and Jesus condemned the stoning a woman caught in adultery law would he not be condemning thou shall not commit adultery as well. My point is that there is a separation. When people in the 1500s saw water they see a whole. Now a chemist in our day would wee water as hydrogen and oxygen. The nation of Israel saw it as a whole because they were subject to all for specific reasons. We are not subject to all for specific reasons. And to know those reasons we must realize that the laws are seperated.


Is the Moral Law the Mosaic Law? If you are Abraham's seed are you a gentile?


Romans 7:13
Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


Did Adam and Eve or Moses ask for the law. Did Moses say to God, "Come down on the mount of Sinai and give me the 10 commandments". That is a typo right? You are correct in that last part. When we see the law and realize how much we are sinners it shows us our need for God. Remember Holo that is is God who placed that tree in the garden and gave the command to not eat of the tree. He did those things so that we would not be Robots so that we would serve him by choice and not by lack of knowledge. When we choose him he wants us to choose him because we love him amidst the pleasures of sin. No one can keep the law perfectly that is why God is not saving us by lawkeeping by by gracegiving. So because we are saved by gracegiving should we break the law and sin? God forbid.


The law by itself does not reveal your nakedness. It is sin which comes when you take your eyes of God and break the law that shows your nakedness. A man living by the spirit would not break the law. A man livinf by the flesh will break the law all the day long.

It's not the condemnation of the law that makes us sinners. It condemns us when we sin in the first place.

Whose fault is that. 2 people are to blame. The sinner and the devil. The law did not tempt us to sin but it was the devil that did it. We gave in to the devil instead of keeping our eyes on Jesus. We keep talking about the law resulting in sin but that is an indirect cause. The direct causes are free will and the devil.

When you are under the law you will be a slave to sin. Paul said that apart from the law, sin is dead. So when you DIE to the law and stop having anything to do with it, sin also dies. I see it in my own life all the time. The more I try to live according to some rule or commandment, the more I sin. And the more I live according to the knowledge of righteousness, the less I sin.

Keeping the law is supposed to be automatic. Love is what supposed to make it automatic. Looking to God is supposed to also make it automatic. I don't agree with the idea that trying to love according to the law makes us sin more because David said that in God's Law does he meditate day and night.


But I agree with what you say. The carnal man is under the law, and under condemnation. It is impossible to please God by means of trying to keep the law.

Thats the same thing. Not sure how you derived that last sentence but the man living in the flesh cannot please God because he is not subject to the law of God. That is what the text says.
 
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New_Wineskin

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A lie!

More lies from a Sabbath violator . You specifically wrote "keep MY commandments" . NOW you quote passages that don't have that phrase . But , what should we expect from someone who says that people should do something that they are unwilling to do themselves ? Lies , lies , and more lies . Hypocracy at its best .


Because WailingWall would rather tell lies ... here is the truth .. the following are the only instances in the so-called "
New Testament" that have the phrase "my commandments" in Jimmy's version ( used by ww ) :

  1. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
  2. John 14:21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
  3. John 15:10
    If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
That is all . None say that He is discussing the Law with respect to "my" commandments .
 
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