Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

mont974x4 said:
The disciples were in as much danger of following the legalists as anyone else.

So whats your plan mont974x4. Ya know, when you stand face to face with Jesus. Are you gonna say "save me Lord, im an illegalist. I did nothing you commanded me to do!"

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

mont974x4 said:
The Sabbath, unlike the other 9 Commandments, is never commanded to the NT Church.

Thats not true. "Keep My commandments" is written time and time again in the new testament. Go read the 4th.

What is true is that you cannot find anywhere in the new testament where God changed His day of rest.

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

visionary said:
Excuse me, you are under the laws of this land, you are under the laws of the is county you live in, and you are under the laws of the city ordinances that you drive in. We are all under the law of God. He wil render judgement based upon those laws.

Now you are correct in the context of how you describe it. But Paul was talking about being under the condemnation of the law. People misinterpret when Paul says that we are not under the law to mean that we should not abide by the law. That is not what he is saying. He is saying that because of grace we cannot be condemned by the law thus we are not under the condemnation of the law but under the freedom of grace. Not freedom to sin as he continued to say.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

holo said:
The sabbath commandment was never done away with, but then neither was the rest of the law. Nobody has the authority to go about changing the law. Adventists are just as guilty as everybody else here; the law does NOT consist of ten commandments, but of 613. You can NOT just pick and choose which commandments apply to you and which you can ignore.

If you are under the law, you are under the entire law.

Hey Holo
You might have been taught the law and commandments are not separate but what do the scriptures say.

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

holo said:
If you are NOT under the law, you are not under ANY of the law. Like Abraham, who is our spiritual forefather. He wasn't under the law.

Are ya sure about that Holo?

Genesis 26:4-5
And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

tulc · May 30, 2008

So whats your plan mont974x4. Ya know, when you stand face to face with Jesus. Are you gonna say "save me Lord, im an illegalist. I did nothing you commanded me to do!"

I don't know what mont974x4 is going to do, but it's Gods mercy I'm looking for after I die.
tulc(why, were you counting on your works to help then?)

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

I believe the "Royal law" or "law of liberty" isn't the ten commandments or any other part of the law. I believe it's not a law in the form of a list of demands, but law that simply dictates that "Christ is my righteousness".

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

BrightCandle · May 30, 2008

WailingWall said:
Thats not true. "Keep My commandments" is written time and time again in the new testament. Go read the 4th.

What is true is that you cannot find anywhere in the new testament where God changed His day of rest.

Very good points. I love the NT book of I John, because here you have the disciple that was called the apostle Jesus loved the most, and vice versa, who wrote with laser beam focus when it comes to what true love for God and mankind is like. And what is amazing is that John speaks time and time again about the relation of the commandments of God in the true Christian's life and witness. He exposes the false of Gospel of love without commandment keeping, and the equally false Gospel of commandment keeping without love. And promotes the true Gospel that is balanced with both. One of the key texts that explodes the watered down Gospel that we see preached nowadays in most Evangelical churches is: I John 3:4, which clearly defines sin as "lawlessness"! And the other key text is: I John 5:4, "For this is the love of God, the we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome." It seems that the overwhelming mass of posts, here on CF, try to portray the Sabbath as a "burdensome" commandment, that was meant to make our life rigid and legalistic when it was created to give us just the opposite result--joy, rest, peace, and fellowship with God and our fellow man!

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

WailingWall said:
Are ya sure about that Holo?

Genesis 26:4-5
And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I've been here with him already. No response to this.

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

tulc said:
I don't know what mont974x4 is going to do, but it's Gods mercy I'm looking for after I die.
tulc(why, were you counting on your works to help then?)

Have you read through my going back and forth with Holo?

BrightCandle · May 30, 2008

tulc said:
I don't know what mont974x4 is going to do, but it's Gods mercy I'm looking for after I die.
tulc(why, were you counting on your works to help then?)

I agree. Any true Christian will have a deep sense of our sinfulness in the presence of Jesus the Sinless One. However, Jesus will not, and cannot take those to heaven who profess to love Him, but willfully and knowingly break His Commandments. Those are the people who He will say: "depart from me you workers of iniquity".

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

BrightCandle said:
I agree. Any true Christian will have a deep sense of our sinfulness in the presence of Jesus the Sinless One. However, Jesus will not, and cannot take those to heaven who profess to love Him, but willfully and knowingly break His Commandments. Those are the people who He will say: "depart from me you workers of iniquity".

Sin is the transgression of the law and sin is lawlessness and sin is iniquity. God told those people to depart because they work iniquity which is lawlessness which is sin which is the transgression of the law.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

holo said:
In the NT, the only time the ten commandments are mentioned as some sort of separate law, is when Paul calls it the ministry of death, engraved on stone.

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Heres a new testament scripture that separates the law of Moses (circumcision) and one of the ten commandments (the sabbath). It was Jesus who did the separating. The law of Moses NOT broken. Circumcision on the sabbath.

BrightCandle · May 30, 2008

PROPHECYKID said:
Sin is the transgression of the law and sin is lawlessness and sin is iniquity. God told those people to depart because they work iniquity which is lawlessness which is sin which is the transgression of the law.

True.

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

WailingWall said:
JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Heres a new testament scripture that separates the law of Moses (circumcision) and one of the ten commandments (the sabbath). It was Jesus who did the separating. The law of Moses NOT broken. Circumcision on the sabbath.

I never noticed this. Good observation. I wish you were here earlier.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

Have a great sabbath day PK.

PROPHECYKID · May 30, 2008

WailingWall said:
Have a great sabbath day PK.

Thank you and same to you. They are going to criticize us for posting here during Sabbath hours. Like the pharisees criticized Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

BrightCandle said:
I agree. Any true Christian will have a deep sense of our sinfulness in the presence of Jesus the Sinless One. However, Jesus will not, and cannot take those to heaven who profess to love Him, but willfully and knowingly break His Commandments. Those are the people who He will say: "depart from me you workers of iniquity".

Im afraid so Bright candle. I found some scripture to back this up

PSALM 94 [11] The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; [13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. [14] For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. [15] But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. [16] WHO WILL RISE UP FOR ME AGAINST THE EVILDOERS? OR WHO WILL STAND UP FOR ME AGAINST THE WORKERS OF INIQUITY?

LEV.5 [17] And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

Break commandments=iniquity

NUMBERS 15 [31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Break commandments=iniquity

PSALMS 89 [30] If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;[31] If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;[32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Break commandments=iniquity

MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ye that work iniquity=I never knew you

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Theres the children that know the Lord.

JEREMIAH 16 [9] For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or WHAT IS OUR INIQUITY? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, AND HAVE FORSAKEN ME, AND HAVE NOT KEPT MY LAW;

Verses 14 and 15 of this chapter in Jeremiah speaks of the gathering of Gods people (in the twinkling of an eye) to the 1000 yr period of rest. At that time, the many (Matt.7) will ask what is our iniquity. The answer given will be simple. You have not kept MY law. Gods 10 commandments.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

The other side of the coin

1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, YE KNOW THAT EVERY ONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BORN OF HIM.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

DEUT.6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments. OBSERVE TO DO! We will fall short.

PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.[173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

For ALL thy commandments are righteousness (even the keeping of the sabbath). Also mentioned here is salvation. Being saved.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL (no question as to who that is). The new testament says Jesus was the WORD of God that became flesh. The only WORD of God around when Jesus came was the old testament. In Isaiah OUR REDEEMER tells us we are to keep the commandments if we are to be righteous.

The new testament says the same thing the old testament said.

1COR.15 [34] AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND SIN NOT; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 JOHN 3 [7] Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[8] HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

LUKE 1 [6] And they were BOTH RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD, WALKING IN ALL THE COMMANDMENTS and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

PSALM 7 [6] ARISE, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.[7] So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high.[8] The LORD shall judge the people:JUDGE ME, O LORD, ACCORDING TO MY RIGHTEOUSNESS, and according to mine integrity that is in me.[9] Oh LET THE WICKEDNESS OF THE WICKED COME TO AN END; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

You have heard some people say that we will not be judged by our own righteousness. We only need believe in Jesus and his righteousness and nothing more. Psalm 7 speaks of the time when Christ shall return to this earth to judge the people. Read it for yourself. Its very clear.

1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

And if not for the gift of grace through faith no one would be saved for all have fallen short. Except of course, JESUS.

WailingWall · May 30, 2008

PROPHECYKID said:
Thank you and same to you. They are going to criticize us for posting here during Sabbath hours. Like the pharisees criticized Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.

Well PK, yes, weve been quoting scriptures on the sabbath

Matthew 12:1-3
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. [3] But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

We are in good company

Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

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