Christians / Catholics

[asherahSamaria]

Christian:
a person who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Catholic:
of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it

Protestant:
a member of a Western Christian church whose faith and practice are founded on the principles of the Reformation, especially in the acceptance of the Bible as the sole source of revelation, in justification by faith alone, and in the universal priesthood of all the believers.

The Reformation began in the late 14th and into the 1500's when Martin Luther challenged the Catholic Church on activities and doctrines he disagreed with. This gave rise to a mass protestant rebellion whose churches live on today. It's the largest western schism to have ever occur in Christian history and that is why it is still prevalent today.
As such, you may find some not referring to one another as truly Christian, though that's not nearly as popular as it used to be. Now, it's mostly just doctrinal war.

Oh I know the history very well - probably better than most - but that still doesn't really address why, mostly US protestants don't consider Catholics to be "Christians". Other than the usual "out group" type differentiations.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Oh I know the history very well - probably better than most - but that still doesn't really address why, mostly US protestants don't consider Catholics to be "Christians". Other than the usual "out group" type differentiations.

Catholics believe that the pope is the embodiment of Christ, and Protestants, historically, declared the papacy as Antichrist and some still do. They believe that the Bible tells it, with such verses as 'the harlot in red and white'.

I really don't understand what more needs to be said. If you know the history so well then you would know that America became a natural home for many Protestants after the rebellion. America is the most saturated in Protestantism and a lot of the old school remains.

By your own claim to knowing history, you basically show that you knew the answer to your own question and are lying about the truth of the matter.

 

[asherahSamaria]

Catholics believe that the pope is the embodiment of Christ, and Protestants, historically, declared the papacy as Antichrist and some still do. They believe that the Bible tells it, with such verses as 'the harlot in red and white'.

I really don't understand what more needs to be said. If you know the history so well then you would know that America became a natural home for many Protestants after the rebellion. America is the most saturated in Protestantism and a lot of the old school remains.

By your own claim to knowing history, you basically show that you knew the answer to your own question and are lying about the truth of the matter.

Please do not accuse me of lying - how nasty of you.

I am asking because on this side of the Atlantic both Catholics and Protestants are termed "Christians", no matter if you are a Protestant or a Catholic. On the US side that doesn't seem to be the case. I know about the Reformation but not what goes on in the American Christian psyche - hence the question.

However thank you for demonstrating that psyche so well.

 

[Albion]

I don't know. I wouldn't even be aware of this if it weren't for the Internet. From a historical perspective, it seems rather backwards.

It's true that, in some quarters, this is routine terminology. But for the most part, it's not meant as the kind of put-down one might think is included. I'd rank it as about on a par with Catholics referring to these people as "non-Catholics."

 

[Cearbhall]

Catholics believe that the pope is the embodiment of Christ, and Protestants, historically, declared the papacy as Antichrist and some still do. They believe that the Bible tells it, with such verses as 'the harlot in red and white'.

I really don't understand what more needs to be said.

It's not clear to many of us why some Protestants think that gives them authority over which groups are and aren't Christian. Sure, if you start the Baptist denomination, for example, you get to decide the Baptist creed, but you can't actually claim authority beyond that. It's just one denomination within a global religion. Division is a part of almost any religion. They can believe whatever they want, I suppose, but it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not clear to many of us why some Protestants think that gives them authority over which groups are and aren't Christian. Sure, if you start the Baptist denomination, for example, you get to decide the Baptist creed, but you can't actually claim authority beyond that. It's just one denomination within a global religion. Division is a part of almost any religion. They can believe whatever they want, I suppose, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Ecumenism then...

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

It's not clear to many of us why some Protestants think that gives them authority over which groups are and aren't Christian.

In the 16th century, Protestants declared the Church the Idolatress of Babylon and put the authority of Christianity into the Scriptures rather then the Pope. They did this because the Roman Church had grown corrupt by it's own claim of absolute authority.

So I mean, I really don't know what you and others are harping on about in this thread. It's a historical schism that frankly just exceeds whatever small inquisition that seems to be projecting on here.
Without the Protestant rebellion, you'd be shouting Hail Mary's in a church state right now. Don't act so superior.

 

[Cearbhall]

In the 16th century, Protestants declared the Church the Idolatress of Babylon and put the authority of Christianity into the Scriptures rather then the Pope. They did this because the Roman Church had grown corrupt by it's own claim of absolute authority.

So I mean, I really don't know what you and others are harping on about in this thread. It's a historical schism that frankly just exceeds whatever small inquisition that seems to be projecting on here.

Right, it's a schism within a religion. What we're not understanding is the claim that the other part isn't actually part of the same religion at all. That's a bit beyond the scope of any denomination. And again, you can believe whatever you like, but don't expect people outside of your religion to accept your bias. That's the root of the problem. If you don't consider yourself to be a member of the same religion as a Catholic, that's your right. However, if you tell me that the religion in question is Christianity, I'm not going to agree with you, because I don't recognize your supposed authority to strip anyone else of that label any more than I would strip you of it. I respect your own labels for yourself, but I will not bend towards your personal labels for other people. I will give them just as much respect as I give you. If you're looking for me to give them the short end of the stick at your command, tough.

Without the Protestant rebellion, you'd be shouting Hail Mary's in a church state right now. Don't act so superior.

Superior to what? I'm not Catholic.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Superior to what? I'm not Catholic.

Well without the Protestant rebellion, you would be, and you'd like it or be declared heretical so...
how's that for authority?

This conversation is ridiculous, you all aren't even arguing anything, just making a bleak attempt at trivializing what Christianity means.

 

[Cearbhall]

Well without the Protestant rebellion, you would be, and you'd like it or be declared heretical so...
how's that for authority?

I'm not sure what your point is. Did I express distaste or disapproval of the Protestant Reformation?

And don't act as if no Protestant denomination has ever killed rebels.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I'm not sure what your point is. Did I express distaste or disapproval of the Protestant Reformation?

I'm not sure what you all point is. I don't know what gives YOU ALL the authority to tell us one Christian can't take a label off another.

 

[Cearbhall]

I don't know what gives YOU ALL the authority to tell us one Christian can't take a label off another.

That doesn't make any sense. I'm taking a neutral stance, saying that both a Protestant and a Catholic have the right to identify as a Christian and I don't feel I have the authority to interfere with that. You're somehow not satisfied with that because I'm not taking your side. Not recognizing your imaginary authority is not the same as claiming any authority on my own behalf. I don't think you're seeing this clearly. If you don't want me to respect their own labels for themselves, then you won't find me respecting yours, either. I don't view you as superior to them.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

That doesn't make any sense. I'm taking a neutral stance, saying that both a Protestant and a Catholic have the right to identify as a Christian and I don't feel I have the authority to interfere with that. You're somehow not satisfied with that because I'm not taking your side. Not recognizing your imaginary authority is not the same as claiming any authority on my own behalf.

You're using the new age model of religious freedom to enforce some rule that a Christian cannot deem another a heretic. That's not how it works, it is not how any of this works. Why not ask the Muslims why they don't see us as true children of God because we put Christ above Mohammad?

 

[Cearbhall]

You're using the new age model of religious freedom to enforce some rule that a Christian cannot deem another a heretic.

You can deem someone a demon for all I care, but that doesn't mean I'm going to alter my thinking accordingly. It's your belief, not mine.

That's not how it works, it is not how any of this works.

I realize that our worldviews differ, but do you see me insisting that you adopt mine? All I keep saying is that I respect your beliefs and recognize your right to them. Anything more than that would be a privilege.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I realize that our worldviews differ, but do you see me insisting that you adopt mine? All I keep saying is that I respect your beliefs and recognize your right to them. Anything more than that would be a privilege.

I can go ahead and tell you this: if you do not hold to the Trinity, you cannot be part of the universal Christian registries of America, the UK, or anywhere in the Orient. If you do not believe that the Pope is the incantation of God, you cannot be Roman Catholic. If you don't adhere to the creed of this site even, you cannot label yourself a 'Christian'.

Don't try to turn the insinuation into something else- this thread is a straight up attempt to call American Protestants bullies, when historically speaking, they were mistreated by Catholics and gave England a good thrashing for trying to do the same. And now people in the UK are going to come on here and inquire on us?
No_

 

[Cearbhall]

Don't try to turn the insinuation into something else- this thread is a straight up attempt to call American Protestants bullies, when historically speaking, they were mistreated by Catholics and gave England a good thrashing for trying to do the same.

Well, that's an interesting accusation. Perhaps you should address the people who are actually doing this. I didn't start the thread.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Thanks for the responses - I think (?) it's mostly down to the works / belief differences.

Not to forget the Papacy among other issues.

 

[asherahSamaria]

I can go ahead and tell you this: if you do not hold to the Trinity, you cannot be part of the universal Christian registries of America, the UK, or anywhere in the Orient. If you do not believe that the Pope is the incantation of God, you cannot be Roman Catholic. If you don't adhere to the creed of this site even, you cannot label yourself a 'Christian'.

Don't try to turn the insinuation into something else- this thread is a straight up attempt to call American Protestants bullies, when historically speaking, they were mistreated by Catholics and gave England a good thrashing for trying to do the same. And now people in the UK are going to come on here and inquire on us?
No_

this thread is a straight up attempt to call American Protestants bullies - Wow you really do have a chip on your shoulder - that was never the intention - it was an honest inquiry.

they were mistreated by Catholics and gave England a good thrashing for trying to do the same . - you'd have to ask an English person about that.

And now people in the UK are going to come on here and inquire on us - maybe they should just get to the back of the bus?

 

[quatona]

From those who posit that Catholics aren´t Christians I would like to see an explanation how the Catholic god concept is so significantly different from that of other Christian denominations (or differs more significantly than other Christians denominations differ from each other) that it requires such an exclusion.
IOW, why the Catholic god concept is so different that it should be considered a fourth Abrahamic religion.