"Christians are very different from unbelievers."

[Emmy]

Dear JGG. Yes, Christians are very different from unbelievers, we Love and Trust God our Heavenly Father, and we follow Jesus Christ in all we say or do.
Jesus is our Saviour, Jesus died that we might live, and enjoy freedom in all we say, or do. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus gives us valid advice, Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all your hearts and with all your souls and minds. The second is like it: love your neighbour as yourselves." Then Jesus points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters, and to treat others as we would love to be treated is showing God that we follow God`s Commandments, and God`s Commandments are:
Love God with all our beings, and love and treat our neighbour as we would love to be treated: neighbour-all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," change our selfish wishes and wants to be loving and caring. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God for forgiveness, and carry on loving and caring. ( Matthew 7: 7-10: will give us all the Love and Joy we need) " ask and you shall receive." I say this with love, JGG. Greeting from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[JGG]

That's...odd. What prompts your attendance and donations to this temple?

My son, my parents-in-law, and late wife are all Jewish. I promised I would raise my son in the Jewish tradition. It is fairly well known that I am not Jewish, and I am welcomed anyway.

You know, as a rule, I just let the bad stuff dissolve into the past. I certainly couldn't be bothered to collect all the offensive comments atheists have made to me over the years just to prove they are all a miserable bunch of so-and-so's. To what useful end? People say unpleasant things to each other. Welcome to humanity.

Yes. But you are part of the majority. You are "us". I am the minority. I am "them". Do people know you are Christian. In my life, I can count on one hand the number of people who actually know I am an atheist. I am part of the most hated demographic in society. I have to hide. And it's because of Christianity.

I wonder why a few obnoxious remarks from Christians bugs you enough to prompt your thread here. All you have really proved is that the Christians who made the unkind remarks you cited are acting contrary to the injunctions of their faith. It's a very unwarranted leap to suggest they speak for all other Christians.

If you're going to claim that the Christian culture is superior, then you have to own the idea of the Christian culture. You can't say boast about how the culture is the best ever, and then say "oh, but we're all different.", it doesn't work that way. If you're going to claim that Christians and unbelievers are fundamentally different, then you are saying that atheists are fundamentally the same, and Christians are fundamentally the same. You can't then say, "oh, but Christians are all different." If you're going to claim that Christians and atheists have different worldviews, then you are saying that Christians all share the same worldview. You can't then say "Oh, but we're all different."

If you're going to claim that you are righteous and we are wicked, that you are the light, and we are darkness, we are wordly, but you are not, then you can't also say from your little soapbox, but we are just like you. You don't really believe that.

What about them? My point was that both sides have been unpleasant. Nothing you've noted here proves otherwise.

But both sides are not. What has an atheist said to you that is equivalent to:

“I have noticed pretty much every atheist, and agnostic, and pagan on these and other forums are typically very liberal , and I have no problem with that. It is expected as enemies of the cross of Jesus Christ should adhere to these godless ways.”

You view me as an enemy simply because I do not believe in your God. That is how differently we are perceived. And yet, people do not actually know I am an atheist. That is how little that different we actually are. But Christians will continue to spout this nonsense "...in Jesus' name!"

Try Pew Research. Or do a survey of, say, 70-80,00 churches around the globe. That'd certainly give you better cross-section of Christian attitude toward atheists than what you find here.

I do look at Pew. But they are themselves Christians. I can't trust their methods, or conclusions. 70-80,000 churches is unrealistic. This site is already available. That being said, in what way do you think this site is biased?

The Bible calls every Christian believer a saint. Consequently, I feel not the slightest need to meet some silly Roman Catholic standard for saint-hood. I have been clothed in the perfect righteousness of Christ - "justified" the Bible calls it - and in God's eyes I am as perfect before Him as any "saint" the RC church has recognized. And I know this because I know my Bible.

The guy I have in mind is definitely not Catholic, and certainly holds himself and his expertise above other Christians. But, on what basis can you claim that he is wrong, and you are right?

Well, hang on. The quotation says nothing about Christians being "superior human beings." That's your spin on it. In fact, the above quotation uses the term "superior" only in reference to the moral character of Christian culture.

Yes. What's your point. Is not a morally superior human still a superior human?

That depends upon what you mean by a "better person." And who qualifies as a Christian?

It has been Christians who claim that God makes people into better people, who have been changed by God to be more moral, to sin less, and have greater wisdom and righteousness.

A Christian is anyone who claims Jesus is their savior.

 

[JGG]

So, being as you have five quotes which you for the sake of this thread are allowing to define the beliefs of millions of Christians in the US and billions worldwide, I have to ask: How many of them came from the same person?

"Christians are very different from unbelievers." does come from the same source as one of the others. So, four posters.

If you would like a wider variety of posters, I would be happy to oblige.

Perhaps, this will explain it:

[Question: “Why are atheists so disliked?” ]

"Here’s a hint……
=========> STALIN <==========
=========> HITLER <========== "

Apparently, I am held to answer for Hitler, who was not an atheist at all, and lived on the other side of the world...70 years ago. I don't see why Christians shouldn't have to answer for other Christians who posted on the same forum...yesterday.

Oh, and that's a new poster above.

 

[aiki]

Yes. But you are part of the majority. You are "us".

I don't think that it is the case anywhere in the western world (Europe and North America) that Christians are a majority in the population. I am not certain about the States, but Canada and all of the European nations are quite secular. And if the States aren't yet predominantly secular, they are very close to being so. I don't, then, really know what you mean when you say that I am a member of the majority. I don't see that at all.

I am the minority. I am "them". Do people know you are Christian.

Not strangers, usually, but those within my social sphere know I am a Christian.

In my life, I can count on one hand the number of people who actually know I am an atheist. I am part of the most hated demographic in society. I have to hide. And it's because of Christianity.

I just don't see that this is true. In fact, quite the opposite appears to me to be the case. Christianity has been on the firing line in the popular media in the western world for many decades now. It is villified at every turn, it seems, in movies, magazines, newspapers, and t.v. And now the "New Atheists" (Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, Hitchens) are writing inflammatory books calling for the eradication of all religions, Christianity chief among them. These atheists aren't run out of town, however. They are praised as "rational" and "progressive" and "scientific" while Christianity is held up as the antithesis of all these things. I don't see, then, that being an atheist is the difficult thing you make it out to be. It seems to me more and more that Christians are the ones who are being marginalized in western society.

If you're going to claim that the Christian culture is superior, then you have to own the idea of the Christian culture.

I don't even really know what you mean by "Christian culture." Christians hold some basic religious doctrines in common, but this does not mean that they all live in exactly the same way.

You can't boast about how the culture is the best ever, and then say "oh, but we're all different.", it doesn't work that way.

I don't think I have boasted that Christian culture is the "best ever."

If you're going to claim that Christians and unbelievers are fundamentally different, then you are saying that atheists are fundamentally the same, and Christians are fundamentally the same.

First of all, not all unbelievers are atheists. Second, Christians and atheists differ fundamentally in their worldviews but they are still both human and subject to all the impulses and tendencies characteristic of human beings. I don't draw these demarcations between atheists and Christians that you seem to be here. Christians and atheists differ in their philosophical ideas but not in their material substance. Both are still human.

You can't then say, "oh, but Christians are all different."

Oh, but I can! Because they are! One of the great things about Christianity is its unity in diversity. Mexican Christians do not worship God in precisely the way Norwegian Christians do; African Christians do not worship God exactly as Chinese believers do. Yet, they all worship the same God and believe the same fundamental doctrines unique to Christianity.

If you're going to claim that Christians and atheists have different worldviews, then you are saying that Christians all share the same worldview. You can't then say "Oh, but we're all different."

If you mean in regards to worldview, you're right, I can't. But not every person who claims to be a Christian actually is. Jesus warned that this would be the case.

If you're going to claim that you are righteous and we are wicked, that you are the light, and we are darkness, we are wordly, but you are not, then you can't also say from your little soapbox, but we are just like you. You don't really believe that.

"Little soapbox"? See above. My mom has dark hair and blue eyes and is relatively short. I have brown hair, hazel eyes, and am taller than my mom. We have significant differences that are very obvious but we are still both human. Likewise, atheists differ from Christians philosophically in some very obvious ways but they nonetheless have much in common in their humanity. So, I can say atheists are just like me - in being human and members of the human society to which I belong. They aren't identical to me but, then, atheists aren't identical to each other, so I don't see why this should be an issue.

But both sides are not. What has an atheist said to you that is equivalent to:

“I have noticed pretty much every atheist, and agnostic, and pagan on these and other forums are typically very liberal , and I have no problem with that. It is expected as enemies of the cross of Jesus Christ should adhere to these godless ways.”

I never spoke of equivalent statements; I said both Christians and atheists have been unpleasant in how they speak about each other. This is clearly so. Arguing degree of unpleasantness is just a red-herring, IMO.

You view me as an enemy simply because I do not believe in your God.

Oh? An enemy in what sense, exactly? You are certainly in opposition to me philosophically. Do I think of you, then, as a the Allies thought of the Nazis? Of course not! That's just silly.

That is how differently we are perceived.

I don't think so.

And yet, people do not actually know I am an atheist. That is how little that different we actually are. But Christians will continue to spout this nonsense "...in Jesus' name!"

I don't think it is nonsense. Jesus' name is very precious to me.

I do look at Pew. But they are themselves Christians. I can't trust their methods, or conclusions.

I'm sorry, but if you threw some atheist/secular organization's stats at me and I refused them on the basis you just did here, I suspect you'd object strongly.

That being said, in what way do you think this site is biased?

I think it is biased? In what way? I never said anything about this site being biased...

The guy I have in mind is definitely not Catholic, and certainly holds himself and his expertise above other Christians. But, on what basis can you claim that he is wrong, and you are right?

All I can tell you is what I know the Bible says. I don't know to whom you are referring, what he has said, and why he thinks he's an expert at...whatever.

Well, hang on. The quotation says nothing about Christians being "superior human beings." That's your spin on it. In fact, the above quotation uses the term "superior" only in reference to the moral character of Christian culture.
​

Yes. What's your point. Is not a morally superior human still a superior human?

My point, once again, is that the quotation never spoke of superior humans only morally-superior culture. You seem to be thinking that what a human culture may possess as a characteristic automatically defines the nature of the humans in that culture. But this is clearly false reasoning. A democratic culture may have people in it who are committed to communist, totalitarian ideologies. A culture that preserves the rights and freedoms of all its people may have within it those who would oppress others if they could. And so on. Clearly, then, a culture and the people in it are not necessarily synonymous in character.

It has been Christians who claim that God makes people into better people, who have been changed by God to be more moral, to sin less, and have greater wisdom and righteousness.

And those for whom this is true, who are more moral, who have been changed by God such that they sin less and are wiser and more righteous, are they not better than those who are immoral and foolish?

A Christian is anyone who claims Jesus is their savior.

Well, that rules out a great many people who claim membership in the faith. For many millions of people, Christianity is a cultural thing, not a matter of belief in Jesus as Saviour. They define themselves as Christian for reasons of heritage, not doctrinal belief.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

Yes. But you are part of the majority. You are "us".

I don't think that it is the case anywhere in the western world (Europe and North America) that Christians are a majority in the population. I am not certain about the States, but Canada and all of the European nations are quite secular. And if the States aren't yet predominantly secular, they are very close to being so. I don't, then, really know what you mean when you say that I am a member of the majority. I don't see that at all.

I am the minority. I am "them". Do people know you are Christian.

Not strangers, usually, but those within my social sphere know I am a Christian.

In my life, I can count on one hand the number of people who actually know I am an atheist. I am part of the most hated demographic in society. I have to hide. And it's because of Christianity.

I just don't see that this is true. In fact, quite the opposite appears to me to be the case. Christianity has been on the firing line in the popular media in the western world for many decades now. It is villified at every turn, it seems, in movies, magazines, newspapers, and t.v. And now the "New Atheists" (Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, Hitchens) are writing inflammatory books calling for the eradication of all religions, Christianity chief among them. These atheists aren't run out of town, however. They are praised as "rational" and "progressive" and "scientific" while Christianity is held up as the antithesis of all these things. I don't see, then, that being an atheist is the difficult thing you make it out to be. It seems to me more and more that Christians are the ones who are being marginalized in western society.

If you're going to claim that the Christian culture is superior, then you have to own the idea of the Christian culture.

I don't even really know what you mean by "Christian culture." Christians hold some basic religious doctrines in common, but this does not mean that they all live in exactly the same way.

You can't boast about how the culture is the best ever, and then say "oh, but we're all different.", it doesn't work that way.

I don't think I have boasted that Christian culture is the "best ever."

If you're going to claim that Christians and unbelievers are fundamentally different, then you are saying that atheists are fundamentally the same, and Christians are fundamentally the same.

First of all, not all unbelievers are atheists. Second, Christians and atheists differ fundamentally in their worldviews but they are still both human and subject to all the impulses and tendencies characteristic of human beings. I don't draw these demarcations between atheists and Christians that you seem to be here. Christians and atheists differ in their philosophical ideas but not in their material substance. Both are still human.

You can't then say, "oh, but Christians are all different."

Oh, but I can! Because they are! One of the great things about Christianity is its unity in diversity. Mexican Christians do not worship God in precisely the way Norwegian Christians do; African Christians do not worship God exactly as Chinese believers do. Yet, they all worship the same God and believe the same fundamental doctrines unique to Christianity.

If you're going to claim that Christians and atheists have different worldviews, then you are saying that Christians all share the same worldview. You can't then say "Oh, but we're all different."

If you mean in regards to worldview, you're right, I can't. But not every person who claims to be a Christian actually is. Jesus warned that this would be the case.

If you're going to claim that you are righteous and we are wicked, that you are the light, and we are darkness, we are wordly, but you are not, then you can't also say from your little soapbox, but we are just like you. You don't really believe that.

"Little soapbox"? See above. My mom has dark hair and blue eyes and is relatively short. I have brown hair, hazel eyes, and am taller than my mom. We have significant differences that are very obvious but we are still both human. Likewise, atheists differ from Christians philosophically in some very obvious ways but they nonetheless have much in common in their humanity. So, I can say atheists are just like me - in being human and members of the human society to which I belong. They aren't identical to me but, then, atheists aren't identical to each other, so I don't see why this should be an issue.

But both sides are not. What has an atheist said to you that is equivalent to:

“I have noticed pretty much every atheist, and agnostic, and pagan on these and other forums are typically very liberal , and I have no problem with that. It is expected as enemies of the cross of Jesus Christ should adhere to these godless ways.”

I never spoke of equivalent statements; I said both Christians and atheists have been unpleasant in how they speak about each other. This is clearly so. Arguing degree of unpleasantness is just a red-herring, IMO.

You view me as an enemy simply because I do not believe in your God.

Oh? An enemy in what sense, exactly? You are certainly in opposition to me philosophically. Do I think of you, then, as the Allies thought of the Nazis? Of course not! That's just silly.

That is how differently we are perceived.

I don't think so.

And yet, people do not actually know I am an atheist. That is how little that different we actually are. But Christians will continue to spout this nonsense "...in Jesus' name!"

I don't think it is nonsense. Jesus' name is very precious to me.

I do look at Pew. But they are themselves Christians. I can't trust their methods, or conclusions.

I'm sorry, but if you threw some atheist/secular organization's stats at me and I refused them on the basis you just did here, I suspect you'd object strongly.

That being said, in what way do you think this site is biased?

I think it is biased? In what way? I never said anything about this site being biased...

The guy I have in mind is definitely not Catholic, and certainly holds himself and his expertise above other Christians. But, on what basis can you claim that he is wrong, and you are right?

All I can tell you is what I know the Bible says. I don't know to whom you are referring, what he has said, and why he thinks he's an expert at...whatever.

Well, hang on. The quotation says nothing about Christians being "superior human beings." That's your spin on it. In fact, the above quotation uses the term "superior" only in reference to the moral character of Christian culture.
​

Yes. What's your point. Is not a morally superior human still a superior human?

My point, once again, is that the quotation never spoke of superior humans only morally-superior culture. You seem to be thinking that what a human culture may possess as a characteristic automatically defines the nature of the humans in that culture. But this is clearly false reasoning. A democratic culture may have people in it who are committed to communist, totalitarian ideologies. A culture that preserves the rights and freedoms of all its people may have within it those who would oppress others if they could. And so on. Clearly, then, a culture and the people in it are not necessarily synonymous in character.

It has been Christians who claim that God makes people into better people, who have been changed by God to be more moral, to sin less, and have greater wisdom and righteousness.

And those for whom this is true, who are more moral, who have been changed by God such that they sin less and are wiser and more righteous, are they not better than those who are immoral and foolish?

A Christian is anyone who claims Jesus is their savior.

Well, that rules out a great many people who claim membership in the faith. For many millions of people, Christianity is a cultural thing, not a matter of belief in Jesus as Saviour. They define themselves as Christian for reasons of heritage, not doctrinal belief.

Selah.

 

[oi_antz]

JGG, if you value being fair, you should seriously look at the validity of any conclusions you draw on any patterns or statistics, as you have done here:

Where would you get a better representative sample than here?

.. every person is different.

 

[JGG]

I don't think that it is the case anywhere in the western world (Europe and North America) that Christians are a majority in the population. I am not certain about the States, but Canada and all of the European nations are quite secular. And if the States aren't yet predominantly secular, they are very close to being so. I don't, then, really know what you mean when you say that I am a member of the majority. I don't see that at all.

Just because a nation is secular doesn't mean that the majority of its citizens aren't Christian. A secular institution is simply one which does not endorse one particular religion.

Not strangers, usually, but those within my social sphere know I am a Christian.

I can't do that. I have to lie. I could lose my job. I have already been assaulted for being an atheist.

I just don't see that this is true. In fact, quite the opposite appears to me to be the case. Christianity has been on the firing line in the popular media in the western world for many decades now. It is villified at every turn, it seems, in movies, magazines, newspapers, and t.v. And now the "New Atheists" (Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, Hitchens) are writing inflammatory books calling for the eradication of all religions, Christianity chief among them. These atheists aren't run out of town, however. They are praised as "rational" and "progressive" and "scientific" while Christianity is held up as the antithesis of all these things. I don't see, then, that being an atheist is the difficult thing you make it out to be. It seems to me more and more that Christians are the ones who are being marginalized in western society.

Really?

God's Not Dead (2014) - IMDb
Noah (2014) - IMDb
Exodus: Gods and Kings (2014) - IMDb
Persecuted (2014) - IMDb
Closer to God (2014) - IMDb
Son of God (2014) - IMDb
Heaven Is for Real (2014) - IMDb
Left Behind (2014) - IMDb
Saving Christmas (2014) - IMDb

And I'm sorry if Christians aren't viewed as "progressive" or "rational" or "scientific". But Christians, by and large, actively reject science, use "progressive" as a pejorative, and mock rationality. If Christians don't reflect these characteristics, that's on you.

I don't even really know what you mean by "Christian culture." Christians hold some basic religious doctrines in common, but this does not mean that they all live in exactly the same way.

You're the ones who introduced the concept of Christian culture and claimed it is superior to all others. That's for you to figure out. You are either part of that culture, or you're not. Which is it? I know I'm not.

I don't think I have boasted that Christian culture is the "best ever."

"Christian culture is in fact morally superior, when it is influenced more by Christ than by the wisdom of man and the greed of the unredeemed human soul. And yes, we are in better spiritual shape - or why would we be Christians? Just sayin'. "

First of all, not all unbelievers are atheists. Second, Christians and atheists differ fundamentally in their worldviews but they are still both human and subject to all the impulses and tendencies characteristic of human beings. I don't draw these demarcations between atheists and Christians that you seem to be here. Christians and atheists differ in their philosophical ideas but not in their material substance. Both are still human.

Christianity says otherwise:

&#8220;I mean, isn&#8217;t a Christian a more evolved human being than a non-Christian since he/she has reach a higher plain of thinking &#8220;outside the box&#8221; so to speak? The only way a Christian can legitimately believe in evolution would be to believe a Christian is more evolved than a non-Christian.&#8221;

&#8220;Yes, I do believe atheism is a death cult. Over the years of meeting atheists, the majority are apparently in favor of homosexuality, abortion, and eternal death. Homosexuality cannot produce life, abortion kills life, and eternal death is a state of hopelessness. And allegedly atheist countries have the highest rates of suicide. I&#8217;ve even had atheists tell me that abortion is good because it helps keep down the population. Surely this is a death cult. What do you think? &#8221;

&#8220;Atheists don&#8217;t believe in God&#8212;-no surprise when they&#8217;re not honest! LOL&#8230;they have no accountability, right!? &#8221;

"Given a choice between an atheist and Satan, at least Satan believes in God!"

&#8220;It seems like atheists tend to be for abortion and for assisted suicide while Christians tend to be against those things. That being the case, does atheism require human sacrifice?&#8221;

&#8220;So you are suggesting to this person that they lie? Even an atheist might find that unethical.&#8221;

&#8220;To me N. Korea as a state is emblematic of the mind of Atheism and it&#8217;s philosophy; benign and dyeing but to invested to admit it.&#8221;

&#8220;Great, be sure to take a group photo behind Satan next time you and the &#8220;better than Christians&#8221; atheists do some volunteer work together.&#8221;

Are you really going to tell me Christians view atheists as human beings? These Christians say otherwise.

Oh, but I can! Because they are! One of the great things about Christianity is its unity in diversity. Mexican Christians do not worship God in precisely the way Norwegian Christians do; African Christians do not worship God exactly as Chinese believers do. Yet, they all worship the same God and believe the same fundamental doctrines unique to Christianity.

Why does this God hate unbelievers so much?

If you mean in regards to worldview, you're right, I can't. But not every person who claims to be a Christian actually is. Jesus warned that this would be the case.

Can you prove to me that you are a True Christian?

"Little soapbox"? See above. My mom has dark hair and blue eyes and is relatively short. I have brown hair, hazel eyes, and am taller than my mom. We have significant differences that are very obvious but we are still both human. Likewise, atheists differ from Christians philosophically in some very obvious ways but they nonetheless have much in common in their humanity. So, I can say atheists are just like me - in being human and members of the human society to which I belong. They aren't identical to me but, then, atheists aren't identical to each other, so I don't see why this should be an issue.

Again, Christianity disagrees with you.

I never spoke of equivalent statements; I said both Christians and atheists have been unpleasant in how they speak about each other. This is clearly so. Arguing degree of unpleasantness is just a red-herring, IMO.

Okay, what are these nasty things atheists have said? Go with Dawkins and Harris if you'd like.

Degree makes a difference because it is Christianity itself that teaches this.

Oh? An enemy in what sense, exactly? You are certainly in opposition to me philosophically. Do I think of you, then, as a the Allies thought of the Nazis? Of course not! That's just silly.

This guy explains why Christians "dislike" atheists:

[Thread Question: &#8220;Why are atheists so disliked?&#8221;]

"Here&#8217;s a hint&#8230;&#8230;
=========> STALIN <==========
=========> HITLER <========== "

I don't think so.

I don't think it is nonsense. Jesus' name is very precious to me.

I know you don't think it's nonsense. The idea that your neighbor is akin to Satan, is ludicrous until you find out he's an atheist. Why, he seems like a normal guy. But when you find out he's an atheist, then it's a different story.

I'm sorry, but if you threw some atheist/secular organization's stats at me and I refused them on the basis you just did here, I suspect you'd object strongly.

What stats would you like to use?

I think it is biased? In what way? I never said anything about this site being biased...

Great. If it's unbiased, let's use it as a representative sample of Christianity. Seem fair?

All I can tell you is what I know the Bible says. I don't know to whom you are referring, what he has said, and why he thinks he's an expert at...whatever.

Because he claims to be. Are you an expert?

&#8220;I think its OBVIOUS to EVERYONE, that, there is a certain GROUP of people within the American populace that are the MAJOR Contributor to to the runaway moral degradation we see sociologically (The Heathen, the Atheist , the Liberally Immoral)&#8221;

My point, once again, is that the quotation never spoke of superior humans only morally-superior culture. You seem to be thinking that what a human culture may possess as a characteristic automatically defines the nature of the humans in that culture. But this is clearly false reasoning. A democratic culture may have people in it who are committed to communist, totalitarian ideologies. A culture that preserves the rights and freedoms of all its people may have within it those who would oppress others if they could. And so on. Clearly, then, a culture and the people in it are not necessarily synonymous in character.

We don't have a democratic culture. We have a democratic political and governing system. The culture itself is not democratic.

And those for whom this is true, who are more moral, who have been changed by God such that they sin less and are wiser and more righteous, are they not better than those who are immoral and foolish?

From a Christian point of view, supposedly yes.

I'm sure you'll trust that Christians on here agree that immoral and foolish are frequently adjectives used to describe atheists. So, I'll skip my quotes. Let's see what God has to say about it:

Psalms 14:1 - The fool says in his heart, &#8220;There is no God.&#8221; They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Psalms 53:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Psalms 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Whew. God doesn't hold back on whom He hateth, does He?

Well, that rules out a great many people who claim membership in the faith. For many millions of people, Christianity is a cultural thing, not a matter of belief in Jesus as Saviour. They define themselves as Christian for reasons of heritage, not doctrinal belief.

Do you honestly think that applies to any of the Christians I've quoted? Will any of them say "I am not a True Christian"? Would you?

 

[JGG]

JGG, if you value being fair, you should seriously look at the validity of any conclusions you draw on any patterns or statistics, as you have done here:




.. every person is different.

A while ago on here I posted one of my quotes:

“Atheistic ideology has been extremely destructive in american society ..especially grooming children to be sexual perannahs and harlots which adds to the already horrendous National STD Epidemic which many hundreds of thousands have died from and which many more millions shall (all because ‘There is no God’ to whom we must be morally accountable toward, granting unlimited ‘freedom’ to live as animals) . ”

I begged Christians to explain why these accusations are ridiculous, or in the very least say "I disagree with it." I only got two kinds of responses: "That seems reasonable to me" and "You're the atheist, why don't you explain why it's ridiculous." (I'm basically paraphrasing). You, oi_antz, responded with the latter. Nobody disagreed with it except me.

Why do you suppose I didn't try to explain why this quote is flat out absurd? Why didn't I "defend myself"? Why did I introduce it at all?

People are different. But, clearly not within a religion.

 

[oi_antz]

A while ago on here I posted one of my quotes:

“Atheistic ideology has been extremely destructive in american society ..especially grooming children to be sexual perannahs and harlots which adds to the already horrendous National STD Epidemic which many hundreds of thousands have died from and which many more millions shall (all because ‘There is no God’ to whom we must be morally accountable toward, granting unlimited ‘freedom’ to live as animals) . ”

I begged Christians to explain why these accusations are ridiculous, or in the very least say "I disagree with it." I only got two kinds of responses: "That seems reasonable to me" and "You're the atheist, why don't you explain why it's ridiculous." (I'm basically paraphrasing). You, oi_antz, responded with the latter. Nobody disagreed with it except me.

I don't remember that, can you please provide a link for reference? I wish to see the exact words for context.

Why do you suppose I didn't try to explain why this quote is flat out absurd? Why didn't I "defend myself"? Why did I introduce it at all?

I would like to give a view on this, I will need more information first.

People are different. But, clearly not within a religion.

Please explain this, it doesn't match my observations.

 

[JGG]

I don't remember that, can you please provide a link for reference? I wish to see the exact words for context.

Nope, the thread was completely removed.

I would like to give a view on this, I will need more information first.

Why is it that I never explain why these quotes are absurd?

Please explain this, it doesn't match my observations.

Big picture.

 

[oi_antz]

Nope, the thread was completely removed.

Not factual then? Why do you trust your memory of what I said? You don't really remember who I am.

Why is it that I never explain why these quotes are absurd?

I think you enjoy watching some types of people jump to conclusions and say things that you find amusing. Let me know if that isn't correct.

Big picture.

Does not address my statement. If you don't want to be fair, ok. I don't intend to judge that, but please be clear about it.

 

[JGG]

Not factual then? Why do you trust your memory of what I said? You don't really remember who I am.

It really doesn't matter. What matters is that the quote claimed, among other things, that atheists are responsible for STDs. The reaction from the crowd was "that seems reasonable" and "why don't you explain why it isn't true."

I think you enjoy watching some types of people jump to conclusions and say things that you find amusing. Let me know if that isn't correct.

No. Because when someone makes the claim that atheists groom their children to be harlots, I shouldn't have to explain why such a statement is preposterous.

Does not address my statement. If you don't want to be fair, ok. I don't intend to judge that, but please be clear about it.

"Atheistic ideology has been extremely destructive in american society ..especially grooming children to be sexual perannahs and harlots which adds to the already horrendous National STD Epidemic which many hundreds of thousands have died from and which many more millions shall (all because &#8216;There is no God&#8217; to whom we must be morally accountable toward, granting unlimited &#8216;freedom&#8217; to live as animals) ."

Why am I expected to play fair? When I have to beg Christians to look at that statement and just disagree with it, and all they can say is "that's a good point" what is the use in being "fair"?

 

[oi_antz]

It really doesn't matter. What matters is that the quote claimed, among other things, that atheists are responsible for STDs. The reaction from the crowd was "that seems reasonable" and "why don't you explain why it isn't true."



No. Because when someone makes the claim that atheists groom their children to be harlots, I shouldn't have to explain why such a statement is preposterous.



"Atheistic ideology has been extremely destructive in american society ..especially grooming children to be sexual perannahs and harlots which adds to the already horrendous National STD Epidemic which many hundreds of thousands have died from and which many more millions shall (all because ‘There is no God’ to whom we must be morally accountable toward, granting unlimited ‘freedom’ to live as animals) ."

Why am I expected to play fair? When I have to beg Christians to look at that statement and just disagree with it, and all they can say is "that's a good point" what is the use in being "fair"?

It's up to you if you want to be fair or not. I'm just saying. I think you probably would prefer to be. If you are choosing to be something you prefer not to be, that indicates something else.

Regarding that comment, I suppose there is some rather common Christian stigma around sexuality that is motivating this and probably that can be contrasted against what might be rather common atheist views about sexuality. Maybe there is also some contention that motivates either side to simply resist the other. I reckon that could be investigated in quite a lot of depth.

What I am saying to you about this, I don't think it is fair to view a trait that is mostly common and use it to suggest other traits are common. Only a select few Christians actually do visit this sort of website (CF.com), most Christians are very different types of people. CF is not really a good representation of majority of Christian people. It only shows those who are motivated to get publicly involved, for number of reasons.

 

[aiki]

Just because a nation is secular doesn't mean that the majority of its citizens aren't Christian. A secular institution is simply one which does not endorse one particular religion.

Well, when I use the phrase "secular nation" I mean a nation where humanism is the prevailing cultural philosophy, which is reflected in a marginalizing of religion under the guise of egalitarianism.

I can't do that. I have to lie. I could lose my job. I have already been assaulted for being an atheist.

Declaring myself a Christian has cost me, too - though not nearly as much as it has Christians elsewhere. In some countries, being a Christian has fatal consequences. In fact, more Christians have been killed because of their fidelity to the faith in the last century than in all the centuries since the beginning of Christianity. I don't think atheists can make the same claim to persecution.

Really?

God's Not Dead (2014) - IMDb
Noah (2014) - IMDb
Exodus: Gods and Kings (2014) - IMDb
Persecuted (2014) - IMDb
Closer to God (2014) - IMDb
Son of God (2014) - IMDb
Heaven Is for Real (2014) - IMDb
Left Behind (2014) - IMDb
Saving Christmas (2014) - IMDb

You list, what, nine films in the last year that have a Christian theme (though, calling the "Noah" movie a Christian movie is just silly)? How many non-Christian movies were made and/or released in that same time frame in America? Far, far, far more. If the number of non-Christian movies released is indicative of the religiosity of Americans, then religion in general is quite marginalized, and in decline, in American culture.

And I'm sorry if Christians aren't viewed as "progressive" or "rational" or "scientific". But Christians, by and large, actively reject science, use "progressive" as a pejorative, and mock rationality. If Christians don't reflect these characteristics, that's on you.

I offered the description, not as true one, but as an example of the antagonistic attitude Christians encounter in western culture. Christians are not "by and large" against science, rationality or progress. And it is not on me if some Christians are against these things any more than it is on you if some other atheists are immoral, arrogant, and bloodthirsty.

You're the ones who introduced the concept of Christian culture and claimed it is superior to all others.

Nope. I have never made any comment about a superior Christian culture.

That's for you to figure out. You are either part of that culture, or you're not. Which is it? I know I'm not.

You aren't making much sense here. I asked you what you meant by "Christian culture" and you tell me its for me to figure out. Well, it's a phrase you are using. If you are using - and attacking - the phrase, it is incumbent upon you to know what it means. After all, if you don't know what it means, how can you object to it?

I don't think I have boasted that Christian culture is the "best ever."

"Christian culture is in fact morally superior, when it is influenced more by Christ than by the wisdom of man and the greed of the unredeemed human soul. And yes, we are in better spiritual shape - or why would we be Christians? Just sayin'. "

As I said, I never boasted that Christian culture is the best ever. I am not accepting responsibility for something I never said.

First of all, not all unbelievers are atheists. Second, Christians and atheists differ fundamentally in their worldviews but they are still both human and subject to all the impulses and tendencies characteristic of human beings. I don't draw these demarcations between atheists and Christians that you seem to be here. Christians and atheists differ in their philosophical ideas but not in their material substance. Both are still human.
​

Christianity says otherwise...

Correction: Some few Christians say otherwise. You've offered a handful of quotations - none we're able to readily verify - and you think we're obliged to agree that these few quotations are representative of all of Christianity? Not hardly! What a bizarrely unreasonable thing to argue!

Are you really going to tell me Christians view atheists as human beings? These Christians say otherwise.

Are you really going to argue that these few quotations speak for all of Christianity? If a handful of atheists began to declare that all Christians eat their babies and must be hunted down and killed, would you agree to being identified with them simply because you are also an atheist? Of course not!

Why does this God hate unbelievers so much?

He doesn't.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Can you prove to me that you are a True Christian?

Are you implying I am guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy? If you are, you don't understand the nature of the fallacy. I know what a true Christian is (and whether or not I am one), not because I have created some ad hoc definition of my own that allows me to establish for myself that I am a true Christian, but because the centuries-old definition of a Christian found in the Bible tells me what a true Christian is and I meet that definition.

Again, Christianity disagrees with you.

Nope. You are just simply wrong here.

Okay, what are these nasty things atheists have said? Go with Dawkins and Harris if you'd like.

The following quotations are from Dawkins:



"...I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the small pox virus but harder to eradicate."


"Those of us who for years have politely concealed our contempt for the dangerous collective delusion of religion need to stand up and speak out."

"Yahweh: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

From Sam Harris:

“Theology is ignorance with wings.”

"Everything of value that people get from religion can be had more honestly, without presuming anything on insufficient evidence. The rest is self-deception, set to music.”

"Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a theologically defensible reading of the Bible.”

And so on.

I know you don't think it's nonsense. The idea that your neighbor is akin to Satan, is ludicrous until you find out he's an atheist. Why, he seems like a normal guy. But when you find out he's an atheist, then it's a different story.

Speak for yourself.

I think it is biased? In what way? I never said anything about this site being biased...
​

Great. If it's unbiased, let's use it as a representative sample of Christianity. Seem fair?

Come on, now, you're arguing like a teenager. Did I say that the site was unbiased? No, I asked you to define in what way you thought that I thought it was unbiased. And then I noted that I had never made any comment about the degree of bias on this site. Please stop pretending like I said something when I clearly did not.

Because he claims to be. Are you an expert?

Depends upon who you ask. I am more expert than some regarding the Bible and less expert than others.

Whew. God doesn't hold back on whom He hateth, does He?

A text taken out of context becomes a pretext.

Selah.

 

[JGG]

It's up to you if you want to be fair or not. I'm just saying. I think you probably would prefer to be. If you are choosing to be something you prefer not to be, that indicates something else.

Should I be fair with Christians when Christians decide I do not deserve the same? Not a chance.

Regarding that comment, I suppose there is some rather common Christian stigma around sexuality that is motivating this and probably that can be contrasted against what might be rather common atheist views about sexuality. Maybe there is also some contention that motivates either side to simply resist the other. I reckon that could be investigated in quite a lot of depth.

What are these common atheist views about sexuality? STDs are cool? Be a harlot? Sleep with as many people as you can? Those atheist views? And you're telling me that I have to be fair.

What I am saying to you about this, I don't think it is fair to view a trait that is mostly common and use it to suggest other traits are common. Only a select few Christians actually do visit this sort of website (CF.com), most Christians are very different types of people. CF is not really a good representation of majority of Christian people. It only shows those who are motivated to get publicly involved, for number of reasons.

Yes, but those people are represented by those who do get involved. It's not as though their beliefs are different. And ultimately this is my point. Those who choose not to speak up cannot then complain that their views aren't well represented.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So other than, being lesser people, closed minded, shallow, unqualified to be elected officials, rude, nasty, ignorant, dishonest, and the most immoral, unethical, and most untrustworthy group in society, how else are atheists/non-Christians very different from Christians?

Since none of those things are true, I'm going to go ahead and say that non-Christians aren't different than Christians. The only difference is that non-Christians aren't Christians while Christians are Christians. Sort of like how non-Hindus aren't Hinuds and non-Daoists aren't Daoists.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Should I be fair with Christians when Christians decide I do not deserve the same? Not a chance.

We've interacted from time to time on here so I'm curious, have I ever given you any indication that I do not or should not treat you fairly?

Idiots abound, I'm quite aware of the idiots, bigots, and nitwits within my own religion; but I've noticed that nobody has a monopoly on stupidity.

If by you treating me unfairly would it be just for me to go and treat all atheists unfairly? What if there were several dozen experiences of being maligned or treated unfairly by individual atheists; should I then go and treat all atheists unfairly? Or would this be wrong-headed of me? I think it would be quite wrong-headed of me to not be able to recognize that individual actions, even repeated individual actions, should not translate into casting a wide net of prejudice in return.

Each individual needs to be treated as an individual. Because there are jerks and there are idiots but there are also a lot of very decent folk. Not everyone is a jerk, not everyone is an idiot.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sketcher]

"Christians are very different from unbelievers." does come from the same source as one of the others. So, four posters.

If you would like a wider variety of posters, I would be happy to oblige.

Perhaps, this will explain it:

[Question: “Why are atheists so disliked?” ]

"Here’s a hint……
=========> STALIN <==========
=========> HITLER <========== "

Apparently, I am held to answer for Hitler, who was not an atheist at all, and lived on the other side of the world...70 years ago. I don't see why Christians shouldn't have to answer for other Christians who posted on the same forum...yesterday.

Oh, and that's a new poster above.

OK, so you're up to 5 (with no sources) out of over 2 billion. I really don't see how pointing out the opinion of one additional person, who sounds like an idiot, proves the point you're trying to make here. I don't hold you to answer for Hitler, unless you start to defend him or something he believed, said, or did. I don't recall you doing that, so I think this Hitler stuff at this point in the conversation is dumb.

 

[JGG]

Well, when I use the phrase "secular nation" I mean a nation where humanism is the prevailing cultural philosophy, which is reflected in a marginalizing of religion under the guise of egalitarianism.

Like how?

Declaring myself a Christian has cost me, too - though not nearly as much as it has Christians elsewhere. In some countries, being a Christian has fatal consequences. In fact, more Christians have been killed because of their fidelity to the faith in the last century than in all the centuries since the beginning of Christianity. I don't think atheists can make the same claim to persecution.

Just this morning...

Prominent Bangladeshi-American blogger Avijit Roy killed - CNN.com

Again, atheists are executed, beaten and marginalized in other parts of the world as well. It tends to go under-reported. This American was murdered abroad, and responsibility taken by a Islamic Terrorist cell. Doesn't make headlines anywhere. After all, he was just an atheist.

However, I am not talking about other parts of the world. I'm talking about within our society.

You list, what, nine films in the last year that have a Christian theme (though, calling the "Noah" movie a Christian movie is just silly)? How many non-Christian movies were made and/or released in that same time frame in America? Far, far, far more. If the number of non-Christian movies released is indicative of the religiosity of Americans, then religion in general is quite marginalized, and in decline, in American culture.

There should have been ten. These are the top 10 Christian or Biblical films of the year (just the top 10).

How many atheist films came out this year?

I offered the description, not as true one, but as an example of the antagonistic attitude Christians encounter in western culture. Christians are not "by and large" against science, rationality or progress. And it is not on me if some Christians are against these things any more than it is on you if some other atheists are immoral, arrogant, and bloodthirsty.

I can show you dozens upon dozens of quotes from Christians telling us that "Science can take a hike", that "Progressives are trying to destroy America", and that "Rationality is Satan's way of turning you away from the Almighty". It is not a stretch to say that these are part of their Christian belief system, and if you don't share them then they would at least question whether you are really a Christian. Which makes me wonder why you're bothering to argue with me, and not with them.

In the meantime, can you show me some atheists quotes telling people they should be immoral, arrogant, or in which they are demonstrating being bloodthirsty. I don't think you'll find them.

These are different because Christians call themselves anti-science, anti-progressive, and anti-reason. Christians are also the ones calling atheists immoral, arrogant and bloodthirsty. Again, that's on your team.

Nope. I have never made any comment about a superior Christian culture.

One of your fellow Christians did. Perhaps you would like to explain why she's wrong? Otherwise, I have to assume you are of the same faith as she is.

You aren't making much sense here. I asked you what you meant by "Christian culture" and you tell me its for me to figure out. Well, it's a phrase you are using. If you are using - and attacking - the phrase, it is incumbent upon you to know what it means. After all, if you don't know what it means, how can you object to it?

I think the Christian poster made it very clear what it is and that it is superior to all other cultures. Heck, I've quoted it twice now. If you don't know, perhaps you'd like to ask her.

As I said, I never boasted that Christian culture is the best ever. I am not accepting responsibility for something I never said.

Christian culture is in fact morally superior, when it is influenced more by Christ than by the wisdom of man and the greed of the unredeemed human soul. And yes, we are in better spiritual shape - or why would we be Christians? Just sayin'.

There it is. Now either this is a fact like she claims it is, or it is not and she's lying to us. I certainly didn't see you disagree with it.

The problem is Christians make claims like this constantly, each and every one presented as a fact. Claims about Christians, claims about God, claims about the universe, claims about science, progressives, rationality, and atheists. These claims are presented as facts of the Christian faith. Now you can say you are not responsible for what Christians believe, except how are the rest of us to know what claims of the Christian faith each individual Christian subscribes to and does not? Are we supposed to guess? If a Christian says that God hates skepticism, how are we to know whether that is truly part of the Christian faith, or something that Barry Tribadeau on Elm St. doesn't really believe.

My point is, if you want the full force of God behind your claims then we have to assume Christians everywhere believe it.

Whether you like it or not, every Christian speaks for all Christians until they say otherwise.

Correction: Some few Christians say otherwise. You've offered a handful of quotations - none we're able to readily verify - and you think we're obliged to agree that these few quotations are representative of all of Christianity? Not hardly! What a bizarrely unreasonable thing to argue!

Why? They are Christians. They are speaking about the Christian faith, a faith that you as a fellow Christian share. If you disagree with them then stand up and say so. Saying nothing is giving tacit approval and agreement. By the way, if you question whether those quotes are authentic, ask oi_antz. He knows.

Are you really going to argue that these few quotations speak for all of Christianity? If a handful of atheists began to declare that all Christians eat their babies and must be hunted down and killed, would you agree to being identified with them simply because you are also an atheist? Of course not!

Atheism is not a religion. We are not an actual group. We are not organized. We are not a club. We do not have an agreed upon faith. We do not have a holy book. We do not receive messages from any spirits, nor are we guided by the great atheism. We're just the ones who don't believe in God.

If a Christian gets up and says that Jesus died on the cross, does he not speak for all Christians? When a Christian says that God is great, or God is against sin, or is the creator of all, does he not speak for Christians. When a Christian says that Jesus loves you, does he not speak for all Christians?

When a Christian states something about the faith that you do not agree with, do you not say so?

He doesn't.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

That says nothing about unbelievers.

Are you implying I am guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy? If you are, you don't understand the nature of the fallacy. I know what a true Christian is (and whether or not I am one), not because I have created some ad hoc definition of my own that allows me to establish for myself that I am a true Christian, but because the centuries-old definition of a Christian found in the Bible tells me what a true Christian is and I meet that definition.

Do you think the Christians that you are claiming are not True Christians would not also say the same thing?

Nope. You are just simply wrong here.

Okay, show me.

The following quotations are from Dawkins:

"...I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the small pox virus but harder to eradicate."

Yup, that's pretty severe. One could point out that faith in many religions added to the development of the vaccination of smallpox and other such viruses.

"Those of us who for years have politely concealed our contempt for the dangerous collective delusion of religion need to stand up and speak out."

Yup, that's awfully harsh as well. What one might notice is that if we had spoken out against Martin Luther King, Jr.'s faith, we might have taken the wrong side in the civil rights movement. Same with Gandhi's movement in India. We might have halted Newton's discoveries about gravity and the nature of he universe.

"Yahweh: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Uh no. This is different. This is talking about a God concept. This doesn't approach a personal attack on the character Christians and Jews. I'll let Dawkins have that one.

From Sam Harris:

&#8220;Theology is ignorance with wings.&#8221;

Again, it's not really a personal attack on believers, or even faith, but theology. I gotta let him have that one.

"Everything of value that people get from religion can be had more honestly, without presuming anything on insufficient evidence. The rest is self-deception, set to music.&#8221;

Again, I can't give him a hard time one this (I want to, I don't really like Harris), but Christians can call me deceived and I don't include those quotes. It's attacking my lack of belief, not my character. Same deal here.

"Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a theologically defensible reading of the Bible.&#8221;

True, but Christians during the same periods were also pioneers of certain sciences including medicine.

And so on.

Okay, but do you see that they're a little different? In nearly all of these (except the last one), these guys are attacking the concepts that believers believe, not the believers themselves. The very first one, and the very last one are too much to be certain. Admittedly, I've never read Dawkins, Harris or Hitchens, but I honestly thought it would be a lot worse.

Speak for yourself.

No, they have spoken on your behalf:

"Given a choice between an atheist and Satan, at least Satan believes in God!"

Come on, now, you're arguing like a teenager. Did I say that the site was unbiased? No, I asked you to define in what way you thought that I thought it was unbiased. And then I noted that I had never made any comment about the degree of bias on this site. Please stop pretending like I said something when I clearly did not.

So why can't we use it as a representative sample of Christians. Who is not represented, or who is over or under represented?

Depends upon who you ask. I am more expert than some regarding the Bible and less expert than others.

How does one know who is an expert? What are your qualifications?

A text taken out of context becomes a pretext.

Great, because that is another one presented to me by a Christian as evidence that God hates atheists.

What do these quotes really mean? How do they fit into the Bible narrative?

Selah.[/QUOTE]

 

[JGG]

OK, so you're up to 5 (with no sources) out of over 2 billion. I really don't see how pointing out the opinion of one additional person, who sounds like an idiot, proves the point you're trying to make here. I don't hold you to answer for Hitler, unless you start to defend him or something he believed, said, or did. I don't recall you doing that, so I think this Hitler stuff at this point in the conversation is dumb.

Well, there have been quite a few more in between. Here's several more fun funsies:

“In the US we swear on Bibles in the court rooms, our money says “In God We Trust.”, and the public and politicians alike say God Bless America every chance we get.That being the case, should atheists be allowed to serve in the US military or might their presence there offend God with their disbelief in His Divine Providence?”

“Every belligerent unbeliever will either repent or be condemned, so that is something to take comfort in.”

“An atheist has a thought? Ain’t possible. Atheist‘s don’t believe in thought’s.”

Are you really going to tell me that these Christians don't represent you?