Christians and Firearms

[Astrid]

Obviously, in a world in which a small number of people can inflict an egregious amount of harm on others, the best option is for only those people with a demonstrable need should be allowed to own guns.

I agree in principle that a free people should have the right to own guns, but not when that right comes at the cost of other people's right to live in safe and secure communities. The latter right outweighs the former.

The argument that by outlawing gun ownership one guarantees that only bad guys will have guns overlooks the fact that the bad guys already own guns. So it's not like they would subsequently have more guns. It simply assumes that the only thing deterring them from using those guns, are good guys with guns. But is that really the case? It assumes that policemen with guns aren't enough to deter them, and that only us well armed civilians can possibly keep them in check.

But this makes me wonder, how did those other countries like Australia possibly manage to survive the onslaught of crime that must have inevitably followed their outlawing of gun ownership? It must have been a miracle.

You wanna know what I think? I think that bad guys buy guns, not so much to facilitate crimes, but for the same reason that most good guys buy guns, to protect themselves from bad guys with guns. So we're all buying guns to protect ourselves from somebody else that's got a gun. And the bad guys mostly end up shooting other bad guys. And the kid in the hood has to buy a gun to protect himself from the other kids in the hood who had to buy a gun for the exact same reason, and the cycle just keeps repeating itself. And the only way to stop it is to make it harder to get guns. Then the policeman doesn't have to shoot the black kid every time he makes an even remotely threatening move, and the subsequent riots don't have to tear our society apart.

So how about we do this, we outlaw gun ownership for ten years. We confiscate as many guns as we can, we compensate their owners, and then at the end of the ten years we have a vote about whether to extend the ban. If we vote no then the previous owners will be allowed to buy them back. Or we may vote to allow some types of guns but not all of them. Then we can begin to lay to rest some of the dire predictions about all of the evil that outlawing gun ownership will cause, and we may just find that we really didn't need all of those guns after all.

You know what I think?
I think sarcasm, employed to promote
such wildly inaccurate and unrealistic
notions as you express, has a kind of sad
irony to it.

 

[RDKirk]

Okay, you asked a question, now I'd like to ask one.

If we removed all assault type weapons, and all high capacity magazines from public hands how would it negatively affect American society?

Those measures would not have any statistical effect, positively or negatively.

 

[RDKirk]

When I have been in countries where there was no reasonable fear of attack--by any means...I'm not any more afraid of being shot to death than being knifed or bludgeoned or kicked to death--I have had no problem with being unarmed. I'm not enamored of guns for the sake of guns.

But first put me into that country where there is no reasonable fear of any kind of attack. People seem not to notice that "no reasonable fear of attack" came before guns were banned. Guns could be banned only because the populace already felt reasonably safe from any kind of attack.

As a Christian, however, the situation requires nuance. I do take notice of the mindset of Nate Saint when advised to carry a gun for self-defense from the violent South American Indian tribe to whom he was preparing to carry the Gospel. He said, "I am prepared to meet my Maker. They are not."

If my concern were ever only for myself, the situation would be different. I'm prepared to meet my maker.

But I've spent too much time in the sheepdog role to be comfortable that everyone else except the assailant is prepared to meet their Maker. They may not be, and maybe the assailant is not prepared, but his potential victims also need their chance to become prepared. How to weigh them in the balance? The one assailant outweighs all his victims? I've spent too much time in the sheepdog role to be comfortable with that.

 

[Astrid]

When I have been in countries where there was no reasonable fear of attack--by any means...I'm not any more afraid of being shot to death than being knifed or bludgeoned or kicked to death--I have had no problem with being unarmed. I'm not enamored of guns for the sake of guns.

But first put me into that country where there is no reasonable fear of attack. People seem not to notice that "no reasonable fear of attack" came before guns were banned.

The man who beat me half to death and made me wish he
would kill me needed no gun against big tough 44kg me.

IF I had a gun then, he could not have gotten me.

 

[Neogaia777]

What dangerous things do ,"we" all handle 100% responsibly?

Maybe he would like a world that is like a white padded room for every single person or individual, so no harm would ever come to any of us ever at all ever, and we would all be 100% safe and secure, and all always be 100% totally and completely safe...?

And where we would have others, another class maybe, who's job it would be to "take care of us", where they would feed us, clothe us, tell us when we could eat, or when or what we could drink, or when we could do a number two, tell us when we could bathe, or maybe help us bathe maybe, etc, because that could be dangerous, etc, and they would always make sure we never left those rooms, except when they told us to, and no harm would ever come to anyone ever at all ever, and we would all be 100% totally safe and secure, and always all be 100% and completely safe...

Sounds like the kind of world they want to live in...

So we would all be completely safe...

A better world for everyone!

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe he would like a world that is like a white padded room for every single person or individual, so no harm would ever come to any of us ever at all ever, and we would all be 100% safe and secure, and all always be 100% totally and completely safe...?

And where we would have others, another class maybe, who's job it would be to "take care of us", where they would feed us, clothe us, tell us when we could eat, or when or what we could drink, or when we could do a number two, tell us when we could bathe, or maybe help us bathe maybe, etc, because that could be dangerous, etc, and they would always make sure we never left those rooms, except when they told us to, and no harm would ever come to anyone ever at all ever, and we would all be 100% totally safe and secure, and always all be 100% and completely safe...

Sounds like the kind of world they want to live in...

So we would all be completely safe...

A better world for everyone!

God Bless!

Because I also 100% guarantee you that that's what those ones who would be wanting to take care of you this way all ultimately want, etc...

But, hey, as long as we would all be "safe", right...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Because I also 100% guarantee you that that's what those ones who would be wanting to take care of you this way all ultimately want, etc...

But, hey, as long as we would all be "safe", right...

God Bless!

The Bible itself also speaks of the danger of the times when people are wanting this, etc...

"Peace and/or safety and security", etc...

Says very all of the sudden great and disasterous destruction is coming, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Beware how many freedoms you allow your leaders to strip from you in the name of safety and security, because eventually, they will be the only ones with any kinds of freedoms, and you will have absolutely none at all...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Beware how many freedoms you allow your leaders to strip from you in the name of safety and security, because eventually, they will be the only ones with any kinds of freedoms, and you will have absolutely none at all...

God Bless!

Freedoms come with certain risks, and dangers, and sometimes even costs lives, and is not ever free in it's costs, but whose only alternative, is to invite slavery into, and/or in through, your front door always, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Beware how many freedoms you allow your leaders to strip from you in the name of safety and security, because eventually, they will be the only ones with any kinds of freedoms, and you will have absolutely none at all...

God Bless!

Freedoms come with certain risks, and dangers, and sometimes even costs lives, and is not ever free in it's costs, but whose only alternative, is to invite slavery into, and/or in through, your front door always, etc...

God Bless!

And by the time you will see you have become enslaved, it will be too late, because they will have already secured their unbreakable hold over you...

God Bless!

 

[Leaviathan]

It's always okay to carry, safety courses prior to getting a license is definitely a good idea. It's mandatory here in Massachusetts for all new applicants. People don't know that there are approx 70,000 instances a year where law abiding gun owners thwart violent crime. The stats are out there.

 

[Astrid]

It's always okay to carry, safety courses prior to getting a license is definitely a good idea. It's mandatory here in Massachusetts for all new applicants. People don't know that there are approx 70,000 instances a year where law abiding gun owners thwart violent crime. The stats are out there.

It is harder to calculate lives saved than those lost.
FTM. I managed to make the news as a crime victim.

If I had fended him off, it would have been a short
police report, filed and forgotten.

 

[RDKirk]

It is harder to calculate lives saved than those lost.
FTM. I managed to make the news as a crime victim.

If I had fended him off, it would have been a short
police report, filed and forgotten.

It's hard to convince someone who has been a victim of a vicious crime that being viciously victimized is okay.

"Victim positivity" is a harder sell than "body positivity."

 

[RDKirk]

The man who beat me half to death and made me wish he
would kill me needed no gun against big tough 44kg me.

IF I had a gun then, he could not have gotten me.

At least you would have had an option beside "Please don't kill me."

 

[Astrid]

It's hard to convince someone who has been a victim of a vicious crime that being viciously victimized is okay.

"Victim positivity" is a harder sell than "body positivity."

It's way hard to even admit even to ones self that it really
even happened. Much harder to talk about it, for all that if.
I don't, he wins again.

Not sure what body positivity or victim positivity is.
But feeling dirty and ruined i s what one actually gets.

I could not even look in a mirror, I came so close l
to suicide.

I am ok now, but it's a super hard process and chirping cute
platitudes at me is worse than useless. I guess it's like loosing
a foot, you can accommodate it but you can never be the same.

A bit OT I guess, but it's my reply to those who think their
simplistic formulas for solving all aspects.of
gun related violence are realistic or even sane.

Begging was just music to that sadists ears.
And off he went, to do it again, who knows how
many victims.

 

[partinobodycular]

Beware how many freedoms you allow your leaders to strip from you in the name of safety and security, because eventually, they will be the only ones with any kinds of freedoms, and you will have absolutely none at all...

Freedoms come with certain risks, and dangers, and sometimes even costs lives, and is not ever free in it's costs, but whose only alternative, is to invite slavery into, and/or in through, your front door always, etc...

And by the time you will see you have become enslaved, it will be too late, because they will have already secured their unbreakable hold over you...

How ironic coming from a Christian.

 

[partinobodycular]

It is harder to calculate lives saved than those lost.

This is true, it's impossible to know the counterfactual. For example, it's impossible for you to know whether having a gun would have saved you from your assault or gotten you killed.

 

[Neogaia777]

How ironic coming from a Christian.

I fail to see the irony that you are mentioning...

Do you maybe want to be more specific, and/or clarify...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

How ironic coming from a Christian.

I am very sorry if you see Christianity as trying to enslave you, but it has not at all even remotely been that way for me, etc...

Or do I even remotely appear to have ever at all been enslaved by anything in your view...?

God Bless!

 

[cow451]

It's interesting that a lot of people that didn't vaccinate because God would protect them feel the need to go armed at Kroger.