Christians and Firearms

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Tom 1 said:
I remember hearing this kind of nonsense from most people I knew in the army 20 odd years ago, how it would be a piece of cake to defeat an army of illiterate peasants armed with antique weapons in Afghanistan. 3 months, 6 months tops. After all, the West has all the best weapons, the superior tech, and - according to some people - god thinks both guns America are great. I wonder how that all worked out? I can’t quite remember

War has become much, much different now, and they are not peasants armed with antique weapons anymore either, and the US is still not bent on taking over other people's countries either, which is, I think, part of the reason they couldn't/can't win in most cases, etc.

And even within a one world government/order, if you don't let other territories be somewhat free, then there is still going to be rebellion, and terrorism, etc, that that government will still have to deal with, etc...

God Bless!

Tom 1 · May 17, 2022

Neogaia777 said:
War has become much, much different now, and they are not peasants armed with antique weapons anymore either, and the US is still not bent on taking over other people's countries either, which is, I think, part of the reason they couldn't/can't win in most cases, etc.

And even within a one world government/order, if you don't let other territories be somewhat free, then there is still going to be rebellion, and terrorism, etc, that that government will still have to deal with, etc...

God Bless!

You see? That's a step towards answering your own question. Keep pulling at that thread.

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Tom 1 said:
If you don't get it, take a good long look at the war in Vietnam, or the 20 years of pointless fighting in Afghanistan. Why, after the murder of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese and Cambodian peasants, and the deaths of who knows how many American servicemen, was the US unable to win that war? Why was the most technologically advanced army in the world unable to subdue one single country with a GDP lower than any US state - in 20 years? If you can figure that out, you might be a step closer to understanding why big guns + ostensibly weaker nations doesn't equal what you think it does.

See my post to you just now, etc.

Our problem has been in trying to be liberators instead of conquers in my opinion, etc...

Because conquering, is very, very much easier, etc...

And then replacing, with whatever you like, etc...

Which could have very easily been done, right after or during WWII, etc.

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Tom 1 said:
You see? That's a step towards answering your own question. Keep pulling at that thread.

At the end of WWII was the window, it doesn't exist now, and disappeared very, very shortly thereafter, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Neogaia777 said:
See my post to you just now, etc.

Our problem has been in trying to be liberators instead of conquers in my opinion, etc...

Because conquering, is very, very much easier, etc...

And then replacing, with whatever you like, etc...

Which could have very easily been done, right after or during WWII, etc.

God Bless!

And I say "trying to be liberators", because what we soon found out was, that most of those people in those other countries didn't want to be "liberated", and is why we lost, or they just didn't know how, and couldn't keep it up/going on their own, etc, but also for some reason, we also thought that had to "try and keep the peace in the rest of the world" also or as well, which has been part of our motivation as well, etc, "try" anyway, etc, without conquering/taking over, etc, and you are seeing how that is working out for us now as well, etc...

To where we now have very little or no choice anymore now, with the world being as interconnected and codependent as it is now, etc, to where we are "danged if we do danged if we don't" now, or don't try now, etc, or it could mean the downfall of us all, etc, I mean with the "peacekeeping" part of it anyway, etc...

God Bless!

Astrid · May 17, 2022

Tom 1 said:
Sure it’s just random speculation. I don’t think the US was in any condition to seize control at that time however. Maybe 10 years later, but by then Russia had nukes too.

No condition, when US war production was
at its peak, if not accelerating?

Tell the russians to back off. If not, boom.

Astrid · May 17, 2022

Neogaia777 said:
We were not a country bent on world domination though, but in only just stopping or preventing the other ones that were at that time, but we could not see all of the rest of the foreseeable future though, etc...

God Bless!

You really- really did not notice that world
doimnation has been
Americas putpose for
many years?
What do you suppose the trillion dollar
military budget is for?

Tom 1 · May 17, 2022

Estrid said:
No condition, when US war production was
at its peak, if not accelerating?

Tell the russians to back off. If not, boom.

The appetite for war isn't endless, it's not just a technical question. You really think Stalin would have just have said 'ok'? A big bomb isn't the answer to everything, far more Russians were killed throughout that whole period than the numbers killed by the two bombs detonated over Japan. I find it hard to believe you or the other poster genuinely believe it would have been that simple.

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Estrid said:
You really- really did not notice that world
doimnation has been
Americas putpose for
many years?
What do you suppose the trillion dollar
military budget is for?

I'm not disagreeing that America's government hasn't been about the business of "extortion/exploitation" at times, and I am more than sure it is not totally clean in it's dealings/wars after WWII, but it seems like we haven't even been doing that very well, since we are so much in debt to other countries now, and we have all but sold our country out now, etc, but I also think that is due to capitalism and corporate greed as well, and how it's becoming global now, and how our politics and politicians have become so deeply involved/coorupt/deeply entrenched with it/that as well, etc...

They have sold this nation and the American people out basically, etc...

All for greed, etc...

And I don't know if that is "on purpose", or is just "sheer stupidity", etc...

It's corrupt now to be sure, and I'm still not certain if there's some kind of global agenda going on that involves selling it out/taking it down, etc, but I'm also not one to go too far down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories that can't be proven as well, etc, and that if there is one, they would make absolutely sure couldn't be proven as well, etc...

But, either way, we are loosing our hold on the world, and that's more than likely not going to be good for the rest of the world, etc...

Not unless you'd trust or like Russia or China better in our shoes or in our place, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Estrid said:
You really- really did not notice that world
doimnation has been
Americas putpose for
many years?
What do you suppose the trillion dollar
military budget is for?

I'd also say if they are truly about that now, then they missed their one and only window of true opportunity a long time ago also, etc...

As I have been trying to say or explain, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 17, 2022

Tom 1 said:
The appetite for war isn't endless, it's not just a technical question. You really think Stalin would have just have said 'ok'? A big bomb isn't the answer to everything, far more Russians were killed throughout that whole period than the numbers killed by the two bombs detonated over Japan. I find it hard to believe you or the other poster genuinely believe it would have been that simple.

That was kind of my point, the Russians were hurting pretty badly already during and throughout WWII, and definitely toward the end of it, and it wouldn't have taken much for the US to just finish them off, or bowl them over, or bring them into submission, etc, atomic bomb or not, etc... most, or a lot of our army, was already there, etc...

Move into China later, or after that, etc, maybe drop a bomb or two on them maybe, etc...

And continue keeping Japan in submission after that also, etc...

And dipose of all their current governments along the way, and force them all to accept democracy under the umbrella of our democracy after that, etc...

Then we would have peace, etc...

God Bless!

Astrid · May 17, 2022

Tom 1 said:
The appetite for war isn't endless, it's not just a technical question. You really think Stalin would have just have said 'ok'? A big bomb isn't the answer to everything, far more Russians were killed throughout that whole period than the numbers killed by the two bombs detonated over Japan. I find it hard to believe you or the other poster genuinely believe it would have been that simple.

Similsrly likewise wonder why its not evident to you that a few
A bombs , used or not, have great persuasive power.

ViaCrucis · May 22, 2022

ByTheSpirit said:
Not a trick question, I'm legitimately curious what responses I'll receive to this. I just read about the church shooting in California. Someone cited in the article said their church is one of the largest in the country and they have many parishioners who carry firearms in service along with police presence. Got me thinking.

Do you think Christians should own and/or carry firearms?

I am compelled by my own conscience to refuse the owning weapons, let alone using them. There can be a discussion about times when there may be an acceptable use of limited violence, but I think that's a very large, complicated subject that should be highly nuanced. But there is really no reason for me, a regular Christian person living my 24/7 amongst my neighbors to own or even consider seriously any desire or need for arming myself. By arming myself I identify my neighbors are possible targets, rather than as persons whom I am called to minister to with kindness and godly affection by serving their needs.

As for carrying in church/service, that's inexcusable. There is no place for weapons in the House of God, no place for weapons during the Divine and Holy Liturgy. When we come and gather around Christ's Table, we gather in peace. We even greet one another with a holy kiss in the Peace (or, at least a hug or handshake in the modern era).

The church building is not just wood or stone. Whether we meet in a barn or a basilica, when we come together around Christ's Holy Table of Peace, we enter into the Holy of Holies, we stand on holy ground. Because we are in the Presence of the Eternal and Holy God. This is the Inner Sanctuary where the Table and Altar are, and Christ Himself is seated and reigns in our midst.

-CryptoLutheran

Astrid · May 22, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
I am compelled by my own conscience to refuse the owning weapons, let alone using them. There can be a discussion about times when there may be an acceptable use of limited violence, but I think that's a very large, complicated subject that should be highly nuanced. But there is really no reason for me, a regular Christian person living my 24/7 amongst my neighbors to own or even consider seriously any desire or need for arming myself. By arming myself I identify my neighbors are possible targets, rather than as persons whom I am called to minister to with kindness and godly affection by serving their needs.

As for carrying in church/service, that's inexcusable. There is no place for weapons in the House of God, no place for weapons during the Divine and Holy Liturgy. When we come and gather around Christ's Table, we gather in peace. We even greet one another with a holy kiss in the Peace (or, at least a hug or handshake in the modern era).

The church building is not just wood or stone. Whether we meet in a barn or a basilica, when we come together around Christ's Holy Table of Peace, we enter into the Holy of Holies, we stand on holy ground. Because we are in the Presence of the Eternal and Holy God. This is the Inner Sanctuary where the Table and Altar are, and Christ Himself is seated and reigns in our midst.

-CryptoLutheran

Sounds terrif until you come face to face with evil.

I tried it.

You would not like it

ViaCrucis · May 22, 2022

Estrid said:
Sounds terrif until you come face to face with evil.

I tried it.

You would not like it

My religion has a history of martyrdom. Martyrs aren't made by wielding swords and guns, but by refusing violence in the pursuit of loving one's enemies.

Nobody said Christianity was easy.

-CryptoLutheran

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
My religion has a history of martyrdom. Martyrs aren't made by wielding swords and guns, but by refusing violence in the pursuit of loving one's enemies.

Nobody said Christianity was easy.

-CryptoLutheran

Well, I don't fancy dying for completely senseless reasons, or for absolutely no reason at all, especially when it could have been easily prevented with just a little bit of resistance, or pushback on your part, etc...

People don't always get to die as martyrs, etc...

Sometimes that is just not an option, etc...

You are also a coward in my book if you have loved ones, or others to protect in a world gone bad, from what has become some very very bad and/or very evil people, etc...

You just have to be aware of the warning in scripture of taking up the sword for any reason at all though, etc...

As long as you accept that, it is totally permissible under certain kinds of situations and/or circumstances, etc...

God Bless!

Astrid · May 23, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
My religion has a history of martyrdom. Martyrs aren't made by wielding swords and guns, but by refusing violence in the pursuit of loving one's enemies.

Nobody said Christianity was easy.

-CryptoLutheran

Allowing a sadidtic rapist to kill me would not
be martyrdom.
Amazingly, I survived.
As for the fate of later victims, who knows.
Letting someone like that kill family
members while you project love is-
You name it.

ViaCrucis · May 23, 2022

Neogaia777 said:
Well, I don't fancy dying for completely senseless reasons, or for absolutely no reason at all, especially when it could have been easily prevented with just a little bit of resistance, or pushback on your part, etc...

People don't always get to die as martyrs, etc...

Sometimes that is just not an option, etc...

You are also a coward in my book if you have loved ones, or others to protect in a world gone bad, from what has become some very very bad and/or very evil people, etc...

You just have to be aware of the warning in scripture of taking up the sword for any reason at all though, etc...

As long as you accept that, it is totally permissible under certain kinds of situations and/or circumstances, etc...

God Bless!

"To endure the cross is not a tragedy; it is the suffering which is the fruit of an exclusive allegiance to Jesus Christ. When it comes, it is not an accident, but a necessity. It is not the sort of suffering which is inseparable from this mortal life, but the suffering which is an essential part of the specifically Christian life. It is not suffering per se but suffering-and-rejection, and not rejection for any cause or conviction of our own, but rejection for the sake of Christ." - Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Cost of Discipleship

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · May 23, 2022

Estrid said:
Allowing a sadidtic rapist to kill me would not
be martyrdom.
Amazingly, I survived.
As for the fate of later victims, who knows.
Letting someone like that kill family
members while you project love is-
You name it.

I haven't told you to let a sadistic rapist kill you. I've said I refuse to carry instruments of death because of my conscience and convictions as a follower of Jesus. He is my God, and He said to St. Peter, "Whoever lives by the sword dies by the sword", by which, in the words of the ancient fathers of the Church, "Christ disarmed every soldier".

-CryptoLutheran

partinobodycular · May 23, 2022

Estrid said:
Allowing a sadidtic rapist to kill me would not
be martyrdom.
Amazingly, I survived.
As for the fate of later victims, who knows.
Letting someone like that kill family
members while you project love is-
You name it.

Do you believe that your your right to feel safe trumps my right, and my family's right to feel safe without having to arm ourselves everywhere we go, in our schools, and in our churches, and in our supermarkets?

Christians and Firearms

Should Christians own and carry firearms?

Owning is fine, but they should be for home defense only

Owning and carrying are both ok

No Christians should use public services (police) for protection

No Christians should trust entirely upon God for their protection

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