Christians and Firearms

[Neogaia777]

This argument is just plain silly.

I find yours just as silly, and incredibly naive...

Within Australia we have no need of guns for self defence.

Or survival, or anything else... "yet", etc...

I leave you in your relative peace caused and birthed by a superpower who wasn't seeking to dominate you, or take your land, or your stuff, or you, or your women, or your children, or your country...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

For Zombies and/or other apocalyptic events.

You never know...

I plan on being like Noah, in any case, etc...

God Bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

Should Christians own and carry firearms?
Yes. Owning is fine no buts.
Yes. Owning and carrying are both ok
New Years eve a few years ago. I was in my bedroom getting ready for a midnight service. I heard bam, bam, bam, ten times in front of my house. Having served two tours in Viet Nam, as a helicopter pilot, having been shot at numerous times and shot down and injured one time I am very familiar with the sound of gun fire. Although there were fireworks going off I knew I heard gun fire very close to the front of my house. I crouched down, to avoid getting shot, and snuck up to a window. I cautiously looked out but did not see anything, My first thought was "Maybe I made a mistake." Believing in my gut I didn't. I continued to get ready for church. Several minutes later when I started out I saw my street taped off with yellow police tape. Two doors down at the corner four police cars with emergency lights flashing. Two or three police officers with flashlights apparently looking for expended cartridges in the street. I was told to go back in my house. A bit later we were allowed to leave.
A few days later I learned that some criminal fired 10 shots from a 9mm pistol into the house across the street, the home of a retired army sergeant major. The shooter was actually looking for the house to the right of the house that was hit. One bullet richocheted off of something and hit the house next door. The shooter shot at the wrong house because he was looking for a certain vehicle and one like that was parked in front of the house that was hit.
I owned my first gun in 1954. I don't know what happened to it after I joined the Army in '56. I have one gun I have owned since '59, one since '66 and two since about 5-6 years ago. In Viet Nam when the Viet Cong entered a town or village they assassinated the leaders. I have no intention of giving up my guns under any circumstances.
I don't live in a run down area. My neighborhood consists of houses in the $190-$300k range.
And OBTW none of the guns I own ever ever got up and went on a killing spree. I don't understand it. Maybe they are malfunctioning? It's the guns fault isn't it?

If you hear any bullets coming at you, you could shoot at the bullet and deflect it.
If God has planned for you to be killed, you could thwart those plans by shooting the bad guy.

 

[Occams Barber]

I leave you in your relative peace caused and birthed by a superpower who wasn't seeking to dominate you, or take your land, or your stuff, or you, or your women, or your children, or your country...

That superpower would be the British Empire back in 1788.

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

That superpower would be the British Empire back in 1788.

OB

Come on now, really...?

What about since then...?

Can you deny that the government and peace you enjoy right now, and yours, and all of western Europe's social and governmental evolution was not greatly affected by America since that time, or as it now stands today...?

Whatever... We're not looking for credit... Just enjoy it while it lasts, OK...

Peace...

God Bless!

 

[Occams Barber]

Come on now, really...?

What about since then...?

Can you deny that the government and peace you enjoy right now, and yours, and all of western Europe's social and governmental evolution was not greatly affected by America since that time, or as it now stands today...?

Whatever... We're not looking for credit... Just enjoy it while it lasts, OK...

Peace...

God Bless!

It would be unfair of me to expect you to know anything about Australian history. It would however be reasonable for you to admit it's not a subject you're familiar with.

Australia's relationship with Britain goes far deeper than any current relationship we may have with the US. Our Parliamentary system, common law and many of our institutions are based on the British model as, to a large extent, are yours. We didn't begin to cut our ties with Britain until Federation in 1901.

Australia severed its constitutional ties with Britain in 1986. Even today we still accept the Queen as Head of State. This relationship is difficult for outsiders to understand.

While the US has obviously had a significant role in world affairs since the end of WWII there is a tendency for some Americans to overestimate its influence and achievements and underestimate the influence of other significant states.

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

It would be unfair of me to expect you to know anything about Australian history. It would however be reasonable for you to admit it's not a subject you're familiar with.

Australia's relationship with Britain goes far deeper than any current relationship we may have with the US. Our Parliamentary system, common law and many of our institutions are based on the British model as, to a large extent, are yours. We didn't begin to cut our ties with Britain until Federation in 1901.

Australia severed its constitutional ties with Britain in 1986. Even today we still accept the Queen as Head of State. This relationship is difficult for outsiders to understand.

While the US has obviously had a significant role in world affairs since the end of WWII there is a tendency for some Americans to overestimate its influence and achievements and underestimate the influence of other significant states.

OB

Whatever, don't care anymore at this point, enjoy your peace and prosperity while you still can, because without the US, it will quickly disappear.

Peace out.

God Bless!

 

[Occams Barber]

Whatever, don't care anymore at this point, enjoy your peace and prosperity while you still can, because without the US, it will quickly disappear.

Peace out.

God Bless!

From the postscript to your own posts:

"Pride breeds Stupidity"
​

OB

 

[Neogaia777]

From the postscript to your own posts:

"Pride breeds Stupidity"
​

OB

Yes, I did say that, and still do say that, etc...

But who do you think is being more "proud" (or presumptuous) (or arrogant) (or naive) here...?

Me and my kind right now, or you and your kind right now, etc...?

Because, even though I was pretty sure I could have argued some of your points in that last post, I chose to let the matter drop, and let you believe, and think, whatever you want to think and/or believe, etc...

And just wanted to tell you to "enjoy your peace" and just let the matter drop, etc, I just hate how everyone seems to hate America, and Americans, when it is, in fact, a very, very well known fact, that if it had been anyone else, especially after WWII, everything, and I do mean "everything", would be very, very much different after that and leading up to right now, etc, but instead people hate us, and are jealous of us, accuse us of being arrogant, and have misunderstood our compassion for weakness, and maybe we are very much weaker now, etc, and the wolves might be getting ready move in and attack/pounce, etc, and it all just very, very much "upsets me", etc...

Surely you can understand some of that, right...?

Anyway...

God Bless!

 

[disciple Clint]

Not a trick question, I'm legitimately curious what responses I'll receive to this. I just read about the church shooting in California. Someone cited in the article said their church is one of the largest in the country and they have many parishioners who carry firearms in service along with police presence. Got me thinking.

Do you think Christians should own and/or carry firearms?

I am comfortable with law abiding citizens who carry arms. They are the only hope of stopping a shooter before innocent lives are taken. I would like to see a requirement for specific training for those who obtain carry permits, I want them to be competent and know when not to use deadly force and how to interact with first responders who come on the scene not knowing who the good guys and the bad guys are.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Not a trick question, I'm legitimately curious what responses I'll receive to this. I just read about the church shooting in California. Someone cited in the article said their church is one of the largest in the country and they have many parishioners who carry firearms in service along with police presence. Got me thinking.

Do you think Christians should own and/or carry firearms?

Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’, and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.
Luke 22:35‭-‬38 NIV

Clearly, in this passage, Jesus supports, at a minimum, open carry for self-defense

 

[Der Alte]

If you hear any bullets coming at you, you could shoot at the bullet and deflect it.
If God has planned for you to be killed, you could thwart those plans by shooting the bad guy.

Since this response has descended into the absurd and ridiculous I'm outta here.
A little more than a half century ago my occupation was helicopter pilot in Viet Nam as a Christian. While there I met a Vietnamese man the same age as myself 28. While conversing with him, he told me he could not remember a time his country was not at war. What many people don't realize prior to the Viet Nam conflict there was never a unified country by any name. The part known as North Vet Nam was communist the area known as South Viet Nam was a Democracy. The north wanted to and finally succeeded in imposing communism on the south by force. In the whole of the area known as North and South Viet Nam there was not one single factory manufacturing guns of any kind, ammunition or any other war material. That all came from China, and other communist countries to assist the communists in their effort to subjugate the south.

 

[Der Alte]

We could argue that a country like Australia which sits within a short canoe ride of South East Asia (to the north), has thousands of kilometres of unmonitored coastline and is therefore susceptible to gun or drug imports, but that would ignore the point. I could also argue that western Europe has completely open borders but lacks the drug/gun problem prevalent in the US. The problem seems to be one of demand - not supply.
In 1996, after a couple of mass shootings, Australia took a positive decision to do something. Without that decision it's highly likely we'd be in the same state as the US, scaled down for a smaller population. The thing is that we made that decision for the public good instead focusing on individual rights.
It turns out to be the right decision if you accept that society as a whole also has rights.
OB

In today's climate I find it almost impossible to believe that a large island nation such as Australia does not have naval forces, something similar to the US coast guard and the full spectrum of electronic monitoring devices to prevent happening what is happening in the US re: drugs and weapons etc.

 

[jacks]

I just hate how everyone seems to hate America, and Americans,

Don't be too discouraged many people do appreciate America. Even Australians. I know when I visited Australia and mentioned my dad fought in the South Pacific during WWII, I couldn't drink the all the beer offered. I can remember when I asked my dad about this. He said "Yes, the Australians were a wonderful people and he had been proud to fight with them." It really depends who you talk to.

 

[partinobodycular]

To me every gun death in the U.S. is a justified gun death, because Americans have chosen them as an acceptable price to pay for their own personal desires. They can't feign disgust or horror for a situation that they themselves have created. If people in the U.S. are dying by gun violence then they have no one to blame but themselves. If you're advocating for gun ownership then you're advocating for gun deaths.

 

[Tom 1]

I voted other.

I feel they need training for caring a gun. Situation awareness training and safety training.

Like not firing a blaster in a taverna?

 

[Tom 1]

Oh yeah, that's right, people who birthed your original ideals, like people in America and Americans, etc..

Huh?

Your belief is that western democracy originated in America?

 

[Der Alte]

To me every gun death in the U.S. is a justified gun death, because Americans have chosen them as an acceptable price to pay for their own personal desires. They can't feign disgust or horror for a situation that they themselves have created. If people in the U.S. are dying by gun violence then they have no one to blame but themselves. If you're advocating for gun ownership then you're advocating for gun deaths.

Hey! Let's not stop there let's ban cars too. More people are killed by cars than by guns.
If guns, all guns, not just those awful "assault weapons" were banned how would the [benevolent] government ensure that all guns were turned over to the Gov? They would have to illegally enter every home, business etc. every dog house, chicken house, out house and search everywhere and even then they would not find every gun.

 

[Blade]

What's your point?
(be careful - there are homicides (all causes), gun homicides and gun deaths). There are also death numbers and death rates)

In 1996 Australia had 516 gun deaths. The removal of guns, and legislation banning most firearms took place over 1997/98/99 as each state implemented strict gun control.

By 1998 gun deaths had dropped to 312. In 2019 there were 229 gun deaths.

View attachment 315979
Australia – Total Number of Gun Deaths (gunpolicy.org)

In 1996 Australia had 104 gun homicides. By 2019 this had dropped to 34 while the population increased by nearly 50%.
Guns in Australia — Firearms, gun law and gun control (gunpolicy.org)

OB

Thanks I think "the per-capita rate in Australia was 14 times less than the rate in the U.S." just might come in to play here.. should not be left out. Oh they were talking about what you posted. Aus pop 25mil. USA 329mil.

 

[Paulos23]

Like not firing a blaster in a taverna?

At least Han made sure he controlled his blaster and there was a wall behind his target