christianity, pluralism, and the problem of multiple revelations

[FireDragon76]

Nonphysical realities with no evidence for them.

The evidence is sufficient for the purposes of Chinese medicine.

Keep in mind, nobody has seen an electron, ever. So I guess electrons don't really exist either.

Well then it should be testable, to show it has more affect than placebo. If it works, but it should be promoted. It doesn't seem to be part of normal medicine though.

Doctors use medicines and treatments every day that haven't undergone rigorous double-blind testing. Demanding that level of verification is a naïve view of how medicine works. Much of medicine rests on clinical experience, and this is true as well in Chinese medicine as much as western medicine.

What has it got to do with what nation you come from. Horoscopes and bad luck from breaking mirrors are superstitions too, and they are common here. Well at least the horoscopes are.

Labelling something that you don't understand how it works "superstition" is the sign of a closed mind.

Truth is understanding reality... that's what it means. Wisdom is in how well we live.

Reality is too mysterious and expansive for any of us to understand it exhaustively. Again, this is the delusional scientism showing up in your thinking.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Or maybe prejudice against non-western worldviews prevents many people from honestly evaluating them. For centuries Chinese were regarded as inferior by westerners, barbarians in need of enlightenment (look into 19th century western interventions in China, for instance), you don't think that legacy impacts how Chinese medical practices were approached?



That question is too abstract for me to give an answer- all I can choose between is what I am presented with. I'm not presented with a world where I must choose only one. There are some conditions, however, where Chinese medicine is superior, because it has a better understanding of how the human person interacts spiritually and physically, even if it doesn't have the sharp focus of western medicine. Chinese medicine has a good understanding of how a persons spirit (shen) and organs are interconnected with patterns of living, food choices, habits of behavior, and even higher transpersonal states of consciousness (living in harmony with Tao and achieving spiritual immortality), and this understanding has been refined by thousands of years of experience.

Good. If it's endured for thousands of years then surely it could stand further scrutiny?

It's impoverishing.

In what way?

I used to think it was impoverishing as well. I'm curious to see why you think it is though.

The evidence is sufficient for the purposes of Chinese medicine.

Keep in mind, nobody has seen an electron, ever. So I guess electrons don't really exist either.

An apples to oranges comparison. There are ways of detecting electrons and testing predictions about their behaviour. "You can't see electrons; therefore, they don't exist" is a facile argument.

Doctors use medicines and treatments every day that haven't undergone rigorous double-blind testing. Demanding that level of verification is a naïve view of how medicine works. Much of medicine rests on clinical experience, and this is true as well in Chinese medicine as much as western medicine.

The evidence base is lacking or grossly insufficient in some areas. That's not to say, however, that further study is unwelcome. Quite the opposite. It may be the case that Chinese medicine does yield tangible benefits. Let's try to find the mechanism that gives rise to these benefits then. Let's try to identify the situations in which Chinese medicine works and the patients for whom it works best. Why should we just end our inquiry by concluding that it works (or doesn't) when there are still many unresolved questions such as these?

Labelling something that you don't understand how it works "superstition" is the sign of a closed mind.

Do you understand how it works?

Reality is too mysterious and expansive for any of us to understand it exhaustively. Again, this is the delusional scientism showing up in your thinking.

This is a strawman response to Paradoxum. To reiterate what I said previously, most scientists recognise that our understanding is incomplete, and many likewise accept that perhaps our understanding will always remain incomplete in certain areas. Contrast that with the conceit of many religious folk, who boast proudly of having captured all the answers in their ostensibly inerrant and unchanging dogmas.

 

[Paradoxum]

The evidence is sufficient for the purposes of Chinese medicine.

Making people feel better, even if it doesn't biologically change anything? I suppose if it makes you feel better, that's good.

Keep in mind, nobody has seen an electron, ever. So I guess electrons don't really exist either.

There is evidence for elections.

Doctors use medicines and treatments every day that haven't undergone rigorous double-blind testing. Demanding that level of verification is a naïve view of how medicine works. Much of medicine rests on clinical experience, and this is true as well in Chinese medicine as much as western medicine.

Well I don't believe you (that the same level of scrutiny goes into medicine and Chinese medicine.)

Also, 'medicine' which involved spirits is totally different from the sort of medicine that we know works. We know chemicals can change the body, so it's reasonable to think a chemical could change the body, even if we don't know how it works.

We don't have evidence that that spirit medicine works.

Labelling something that you don't understand how it works "superstition" is the sign of a closed mind.

I'm not saying it because I don't understand it, I'm saying it's superstitious because it's made up magic thinking. Being open minded doesn't mean you have to accept everything.

If there is evidence, or good reason to accept these things, then I'll change my mind.

Reality is too mysterious and expansive for any of us to understand it exhaustively. Again, this is the delusional scientism showing up in your thinking.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said. I don't think I do accept scientism. If you want you explain what you think scientism is, and why it applies to me, please do so?

I agree that we probably can't full understand everything. Quantum stuff is very difficult for us to comprehend.

 

[FireDragon76]

It seems this thread has gotten terribly sidetracked into debating with atheists, which was not my goal. I was hoping to hear from believers, and how they deal with a pluralistic world.