Christianity in the digital age

[timothyu]

I rarely understand you, brother.

Just think if it as a self perceived blessing ahead for those who would rule the world and accepted the offer of the Adversary that all this could become theirs.

 

[James_Lai]

Just think if it as a self perceived blessing ahead for those who would rule the world and accepted the offer of the Adversary that all this could become theirs.

Another cryptic message I have trouble deciphering

I do get the general idea of course

 

[Sketcher]

I like it. Maybe it’s a kind of revolution I’m thinking about taking place?? Exciting

We just try to adapt while hanging on to who we are and what we believe in. We're not liberal, but we're not hidebound either.

 

[chevyontheriver]

This is cool!!! I’m so interested to attend, I’ll search if there’s such church close to me in Canada. You mentioned Rome, so you’re in Italy? Of course Italians can pick up Latin fast… Or French or Spanish etc Romance language speakers

No. I'm in the USA. Right in the middle. There is one church about 10 miles away with a Latin mass, and some others not to far of a drive. I typically go to a mass in English though.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, dona nobis pacem.

Agnus Dei - Wikipedia

 

[chevyontheriver]

I like it. Maybe it’s a kind of revolution I’m thinking about taking place?? Exciting

We have had the time of the mega-church. Meh. I think it's time to figure out micro-churches, places of under 100 people where everybody knows each other.

 

[James_Lai]

No. I'm in the USA. Right in the middle. There is one church about 10 miles away with a Latin mass, and some others not to far of a drive. I typically go to a mass in English though.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis pecatta mundi, dona nobis pacem.

Agnus Dei - Wikipedia

I will try to translate without Google

Lamb? of God, who redeems?/takes away? sin? of the world, have mercy on us. 2x
- give us peace.

I probably knew the 3 words but it’s been a long long while. A wild guess, I’m probably wrong in all 3. Agnus/Agnia is a male/female name too.

Need to brush up my Latin!! Beautiful language.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I will try to translate without Google

Lamb? of God, who redeems?/takes away? sin? of the world, have mercy on us. 2x
- give us peace.

I probably knew the 3 words but it’s been a long long while. A wild guess, I’m probably wrong in all 3. Agnus/Agnia is a male/female name too.

Need to brush up my Latin!! Beautiful language.

Lamb of God,who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant (or give) us peace.

Even in English it's pretty good.

 

[James_Lai]

Lamb of God,who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant (or give) us peace.

Even in English it's pretty good.

Wow, I got it right!

 

[chevyontheriver]

Wow, I got it right!

It's not rocket surgery or anything!

We older Catholics were told in the 1960's how much better it would be when we understood everything at mass. For the most part we already understood most of the Latin anyway. So now that it's all in English do we really understand more? I'm not sure we older Catholics do.

 

[James_Lai]

It's not rocket surgery or anything!

We older Catholics were told in the 1960's how much better it would be when we understood everything at mass. For the most part we already understood most of the Latin anyway. So now that it's all in English do we really understand more? I'm not sure we older Catholics do.

I was thinking about a common language of faith, how great it is for Scripture and liturgy. Like Pali/Sanskrit for Buddhism or Arabic for Islam. It’s a super wonderful and effective unifying factor. Especially Latin, so amazing language. Then churches and believers in different countries all have unity and single source for revelation of God.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I was thinking about a common language of faith, how great it is for Scripture and liturgy. Like Pali/Sanskrit for Buddhism or Arabic for Islam. It’s a super wonderful and effective unifying factor. Especially Latin, so amazing language. Then churches and believers in different countries all have unity and single source for revelation of God.

Unfortunately Latin is just about gone. Pockets here and there is about it. There are other liturgical languages like Slovenian or Greek or whatever, but they are not so much international liturgical languages. So for the most part we're stuck without the prospects of a common liturgical language. It was only about 150 years ago that every educated person knew Latin. Now they know English. Big Whoop.

 

[James_Lai]

Unfortunately Latin is just about gone. Pockets here and there is about it. There are other liturgical languages like Slovenian or Greek or whatever, but they are not so much international liturgical languages. So for the most part we're stuck without the prospects of a common liturgical language. It was only about 150 years ago that every educated person knew Latin. Now they know English. Big Whoop.

In the Westminster Abby I saw all inscriptions were in Latin up until some year when they switched to English

 

[chevyontheriver]

In the Westminster Abby I saw all inscriptions were in Latin up until some year when they switched to English

Well, Westminster Abbey used to be Catholic. It was a Benedictine Abbey. It was Catholic for more than 500 years before Henry VIII did his thing.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Hello.
I look at children and young people today, and they are quite different. It’s really hard for me to grasp what it is. I’m not very old myself, but I sense a gap in world perception and mindset. For example, I can’t play a video game or watch TikTok. Video game or TokTok, after couple minutes I become bored to death. For me it’s same thing over and over, and pointless. Well, I also grew up in a country that was so behind socially, economically etc from the West, and technology and broadband Internet was much much less common and censored.

I attend churches and see mostly older generation in attendance. Kids or youth who are there never look genuinely interested.

I need to talk to the younger generation to see how they react to faith? I don’t know, I don’t have a clue.

So the reality of today is immediate connectivity with anybody from the palm of your hand, and having Google answer all their questions in a few milliseconds… Maybe it’s a kind of training? So the result is that they see things, think and act in a whole new way?

What’s traditional faith and religion? Maybe it feels dead to them? Pointless? Uncool/lame/cringy/cheuge? I don’t know. If there was a virtual church platform where they could see one minute entertaining videos on the Holy Spirit with likes and dislikes or got points for a prayer or could message questions to their group or share Tweets or something? Moving church services to Youtube videos isn’t the same, I think, it’s making the traditional church way worse, depriving it of its real powers. I’m talking about a new kind of religion appropriate to the new generation? They live in a very different world today…

What can be done to win the youngsters over for faith? The old ways that worked for centuries seem to be outdated in our society that has quickly evolved. Though if it would all end one day due to deficiency of resources or some cataclysmic events, maybe the good old robust ways are the best fallback and so should be kept as is?

We are seeing Bible prophecy come to pass.

Matthew 24:12 "Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 "The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness."

2 Timothy 3:1 "But understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good, traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these!"

The gospel is still the power of God to save. God's means is still preaching. The problem is the hard heart that refuses to listen, not the word preached.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Unfortunately Latin is just about gone. Pockets here and there is about it. There are other liturgical languages like Slovenian or Greek or whatever, but they are not so much international liturgical languages. So for the most part we're stuck without the prospects of a common liturgical language. It was only about 150 years ago that every educated person knew Latin. Now they know English. Big Whoop.

Latin is one of the hardest languages to learn. I know that from experience. Personally I don't miss it a bit. English is hard enough to learn as it is. Latin is harder still.

 

[Halbhh]

Hello.
I look at children and young people today, and they are quite different. It’s really hard for me to grasp what it is. I’m not very old myself, but I sense a gap in world perception and mindset. For example, I can’t play a video game or watch TikTok. Video game or TokTok, after couple minutes I become bored to death. For me it’s same thing over and over, and pointless. Well, I also grew up in a country that was so behind socially, economically etc from the West, and technology and broadband Internet was much much less common and censored.

I attend churches and see mostly older generation in attendance. Kids or youth who are there never look genuinely interested.

I need to talk to the younger generation to see how they react to faith? I don’t know, I don’t have a clue.

So the reality of today is immediate connectivity with anybody from the palm of your hand, and having Google answer all their questions in a few milliseconds… Maybe it’s a kind of training? So the result is that they see things, think and act in a whole new way?

What’s traditional faith and religion? Maybe it feels dead to them? Pointless? Uncool/lame/cringy/cheuge? I don’t know. If there was a virtual church platform where they could see one minute entertaining videos on the Holy Spirit with likes and dislikes or got points for a prayer or could message questions to their group or share Tweets or something? Moving church services to Youtube videos isn’t the same, I think, it’s making the traditional church way worse, depriving it of its real powers. I’m talking about a new kind of religion appropriate to the new generation? They live in a very different world today…

What can be done to win the youngsters over for faith? The old ways that worked for centuries seem to be outdated in our society that has quickly evolved. Though if it would all end one day due to deficiency of resources or some cataclysmic events, maybe the good old robust ways are the best fallback and so should be kept as is?

There is more than one piece to this, and some have addressed some of those.

But here's one more big one:
In some churches if not all, there is also a group that believes but always tends to be restless in their late teens into their 20s, and doesn't attend much during those years, and won't return much until they are married and/or have kids, and then they will return.

In our church, we tend to get new members that are mostly young families. They decide it's time to join a church. The number of adults in new families joining outnumbers the adults joining that are single here, and I'm thinking that's very common.

So, the question for a church often isn't whether the older teens look interested -- a few will, but most won't, and that's about age and what is most preoccupying for them: moving, finishing school, getting a job, getting a place, and finding a potential spouse. But many will come back in the way you are thinking about: looking interested and being there every Sunday. They will return to that consistent attendance when the first kid is crawling or walking or starting preschool.

 

[Halbhh]

It is a traditional liturgy of the Church as practiced for 1500 or so years, with most of it in the Latin language. The very opposite of new. Yet it draws young people.

I liked the Latin I heard also when younger, I remember. Because the mystery in it felt fitting for the mysteries of God, Who is above us. And, having the priest face away from the congregation toward the altar feels symbolically good. Even (perhaps especially when younger) some words you don't know every bit of what they mean can feel right.... (Also, perhaps getting only part of what is meant can for a younger person be somewhat like reading scripture: some things are clear already, and some not yet.)

We sense (correctly) that God is above us, and there is holy mystery, things of God that are removed from the ordinary word, and having a special language seems like that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Latin is one of the hardest languages to learn. I know that from experience. Personally I don't miss it a bit. English is hard enough to learn as it is. Latin is harder still.

Latin taught in the 1960’s and 1970’s was crazy. There is better pedagogy now.

 

[chevyontheriver]

We are seeing Bible prophecy come to pass.

Matthew 24:12 "Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 "The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness."

2 Timothy 3:1 "But understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good, traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these!"

The gospel is still the power of God to save. God's means is still preaching. The problem is the hard heart that refuses to listen, not the word preached.

I think there are several elements to the problem. But it adds up to a large if not great apostasy. Which sets the stage, if this is the great apostasy, for a return of our King. If our own faith and hope and love do not grow cold we may still be able to pull some others onto the ark. The trend looks bad but we can still be witnesses to the needy world.

 

[timothyu]

Which sets the stage, if this is the great apostasy, for a return of our King.

Which should become even more obvious as the world sets up a system for the fleshy king who must come first, the same kind the Jews expected.