Christianity - From a pagan point of view considered

[Wryetui]

This is your experience, and your opinion. That's your way. And I accept it, and I wish you on your further way a lot of joy and a little sorrow. My way is different. My experiences are different. My opinion is different. That is why I also say that there is not only one way. That there are many ways to divine knowledge.
On a personal opinion about your contribution:

If you write:

"... I realized that I am worshiping creatures instead worshiping the Creator", I think you have not understood the essence of Wicca, and also not the magic in it. How did you become a Wiccan?

I did understand it and I did feel it, but, now, as then, I don't see it as more than idolatry, which it is.

 

[paulm50]

There are faults and flaws in all evolutionary institutions, human writings, interpretations of divine interventions.

I realized at some point in my life that focusing on the faults of religion was blocking me from the truths of religion.

Jesus was Liberal for his age, but he had to be relative to the age in which he visited the earth.

Jesus was very liberal to the women of his day, more so than is appreciated. Unfortunately Paul (who never knew Jesus) brought common prejudices along with his own Pagan religious baggage that contaminate, dominates and obscures the original gospel.

Then we have to question how this effects the bible. Were Matthew, Mark, Luke and John writing the truth or bringing their common prejudices along with their own Pagan religious baggage? The Birth filled some of the prophecies, the resurrection mirrors others "Gods". We now know Revelations was John writing abut the Romans. We know the New Testament was complied In 331, by Constantine.

Also books were written by men under orders of the rulers, or those trying to rule. S o where is the hand of God? Same with the Old Testament, complied from folk stories while the Israelites were in captivity. In order to keep the people together. Telling them God gave them Israel, told them who to kill and helped them in the killing. Is a political direction. Telling people if they break the priests orders God will be upset, is political mind control.

Th Roman Catholic Church, the only controlling Christian religion till the 15th Century had a monopoly on the Bible. And it's proven they changed the rules to please the Church many times. Married Priests, Divorce, marriage, sex.

I have lived a good life, but never believed in any religions. The priests and church tell me I'm bad and won't go to heaven. Often the men telling me are guilty of more sin or associated with others who have sinned more. If there is a Heaven, I reckon a lot of "Christians" won't be there and a lot of Atheists will. If it's based on being good person.

 

[paulm50]

People can use most belief sets as justification to do terrible things. It doesn't mean they're right in doing so.

Faiths are not exempt from that human ignorance.

Does this include the Israelites committing genocide to steal the Land of Canaan?

 

[Colter]

Then we have to question how this effects the bible. Were Matthew, Mark, Luke and John writing the truth or bringing their common prejudices along with their own Pagan religious baggage? The Birth filled some of the prophecies, the resurrection mirrors others "Gods". We now know Revelations was John writing abut the Romans. We know the New Testament was complied In 331, by Constantine.

Also books were written by men under orders of the rulers, or those trying to rule. S o where is the hand of God? Same with the Old Testament, complied from folk stories while the Israelites were in captivity. In order to keep the people together. Telling them God gave them Israel, told them who to kill and helped them in the killing. Is a political direction. Telling people if they break the priests orders God will be upset, is political mind control.

Th Roman Catholic Church, the only controlling Christian religion till the 15th Century had a monopoly on the Bible. And it's proven they changed the rules to please the Church many times. Married Priests, Divorce, marriage, sex.

I have lived a good life, but never believed in any religions. The priests and church tell me I'm bad and won't go to heaven. Often the men telling me are guilty of more sin or associated with others who have sinned more. If there is a Heaven, I reckon a lot of "Christians" won't be there and a lot of Atheists will. If it's based on being good person.

I generally agree with your post, yet I have a relationship with the God that the imperfect men were is search of. You also omitted the preservation of positive values by religious institutions as imperfect as they are.

Also, the concepts of heaven in pop culture are inadequate, I believe the only thing added to us when we awake on the shores of the next world will be the fact of survival, we will pick up right where we left off in spiritual growth and understanding. Our memories will only include the positive learning experiences of this life. Much more work and adventure lay ahead as we make our way inward to the Father, from their endless service and joy.

 

[Colter]

Does this include the Israelites committing genocide to steal the Land of Canaan?

Point made, besides, the Israelites never destroyed the Canaanites, they intermarried with them, but during the enmass redactions of the OT books, the Hebrew redactors failed to remove certain matter of fact statements such as “And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites. And they took their daughters to be their wives and gave their daughters to the sons of the Canaanites.”

If you go to Wiki and research the Palistinian people you will find they share genes with the Jews and Christians.

There may have been a war between groups, but if they destroyed them all that would mean they destroyed themselves to, the Jews ARE the Canaanites and the Canaanites still exist within Jewish bloodlines.

 

[Kristin E]

Before I became a Wiccan, I was a member of a Christian church. In this church (Baptist), I often had the impression that I am to submit to certain standards, because it would be "the best" for me. And I so could show my love and obedience to God.
I am subjected to the rules, but I felt this very uncomfortable and unhappy. Why? By nature I am a person who is very loving justice. And in my church were women, from my vantage point; treated unfairly. In addition, I am a lesbian, and even that has not been accepted in the Church. And above all, I have studied the Bible intensely, and on some issues (such as the female subordination, or the character Jesus) a dissenting opinion. Uniformity was more important in my old church, as spirituality.
If the Christian in all the churches so, or something like that?
Certainly not!
But in too many churches, it is so!
According to a survey in the United States there are more people who would describe themselves as non-believers. Why? What do the religions wrong?
Is perhaps from the good news of the Gospel become an imminent message?

Forgive me as I speak in truth.

You call yourself a wiccan, you think you have powers, but they are straight from hell and the devils counterfeit "powers" can easily be revoked.
Gods powers and feats will never be revoked, in fact Gods powers blow the devil and his counterfeit powers out of the water.

I should know I used to dabble in witchcraft and I was a bisexual before I renounced those devilish ways.

You say you're a lesbian, no you're not. God made you straight. You were not born that way either.

You cannot be a christian pagan or a christian wiccan / witch, it don't work that way. You cannot be lukewarm, you have to be on Gods side or you're automatically on the devils side.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Forgive me as I speak in truth.

You call yourself a wiccan, you think you have powers, but they are straight from hell and the devils counterfeit "powers" can easily be revoked.
Gods powers and feats will never be revoked, in fact Gods powers blow the devil and his counterfeit powers out of the water.

I should know I used to dabble in witchcraft and I was a bisexual before I renounced those devilish ways.

You say you're a lesbian, no you're not. God made you straight. You were not born that way either.

You cannot be a christian pagan or a christian wiccan / witch, it don't work that way. You cannot be lukewarm, you have to be on Gods side or you're automatically on the devils side.

Forgive me as I speak in truth: there is so much wrong with this post that it's almost funny.

 

[Kristin E]

Forgive me as I speak in truth: there is so much wrong with this post that it's almost funny.

No not really, feel free to laugh though I'm laughing too at the devil and how dumb he is .

 

[DeepWater]

Before I became a Wiccan, I was a member of a Christian church. I often had the impression that I am to submit to certain standards, because it would be "the best" for me. ?

You have not described Christianity, you have described religion.
No wonder you hated it.

Christianity is not rules, regulations, and church standards........but instead its God loving you, Christ loving you and dying for you, and you being in love with them.

 

[Hekate]

Counter-productive and dangerous how?

Because it is restrictive, to make people believe that there is only one way. Because people who do not fit into the norms of the group / religion. If I'm going to set as a woman to the role of wife and mother; and would prefer to study and make a career; and someone persuaded me feel guilty because I do not follow the "true destiny of the woman," it is counterproductive. Because maybe I would change my career through the lives of many people, apart from the fact that it would be fulfilling for me to follow my destiny.

And yet the Bible tells us to test everything.

What happens if I take the Bible with the Word? If I come across inconsistencies and false texts? If I were to find out that much of the Bible is no factual report, but a religious story is? If translations are wrong or inadequate because texts are ambiguous?
Then would be expected of me (of Christians), still to believe anything because, as they would call it, is ultimately just have to believe. And that's ridiculous!

 

[Hekate]

The last Christian execution for heresy was 26 July 1826 in Valencia. Did the Christians stop it happening or the people of the time?

When a Christian leader to calls to burn the Koran, to condemn homosexuality, or to condemn abortion clinics; and so other brings to kill Muslims; Homosexuals to murder; or to blow up with bombs abortion clinics in the air; he is what we call an "arsonist". What that leads, for example, shows described the history of the Mountain Meadows massacre, like in the movie "September Dawn". Mormons killed 120 Settlers (Men, Women and Children above 8 years).

 

[Hekate]

I did understand it and I did feel it, but, now, as then, I don't see it as more than idolatry, which it is.

Were you a member of a coven, or were you a solitary witch who learned everything from books? I have learned in a coven. My teacher taught me everything, and encouraged me to seek my own path. Because in Wicca there are, as you may know, is no absolute truth. Everything is, such as life, in a constant flux. There are a few basics that heed all more or less.

 

[Hekate]

You call yourself a wiccan, you think you have powers, but they are straight from hell and the devils counterfeit "powers" can easily be revoked.

Can I ask you something? Does it hurt very much; to be prejudiced? We Wicca do not believe in a devil. And, we have no more or less "power", as everybody else. But, we have a great knowledge. About plants and their healing powers, for example. Or about the human psyche. If I, for example, do a ritual, for example, for a love spell, so I turn that only the internal forces of a person, I "bewitch" no one!

Gods powers and feats will never be revoked, in fact Gods powers blow the devil and his counterfeit powers out of the water.

I feel sorry for you! You heard neither the Bible nor the God in whom you believe. The hatred of the Israelites against the "pagans" came along, that the Gentiles were here first, and the Israelites wanted to get rid of their unwanted competition. Until the time of the reign of the judges, for example, was the goddess Astarte / Aschenroth in the temple of Jerusalem as "wife of God" worshiped together with Jehovah. Why? Since faith was rooted to the goddess so deep among the people, that even the destruction of the goddesses statues, by the priests of the Israelites could not destroy it.

I should know I used to dabble in witchcraft and I was a bisexual before I renounced those devilish ways.

That you switch from Wicca to the Christians, is okay for me. You're bisexual? So love men and women? That's okay. But it's not okay because it can make people mentally ill, and many of them even committed suicide because of that, to suppress their own sexuality. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. I suppressed my lesbian identity. Became depressed and dependent on alcohol, and tried to take my life. I no longer wanted to live because I believed stupid as I was; that God would condemn me. That God would love me anymore, because I don't like [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

You say you're a lesbian, no you're not. God made you straight. You were not born that way either.

So something ridiculous I've never heard of. As scientific researches say something completely different. The emergence of homosexuality based on four pillars, which are: genes, hormones, psychology of the mother, and the social behavior of the child in the first two years of life. Without genes and hormones, and their impact, there is no homosexuality. Also, no bisexuality, Sweety!

You cannot be a christian pagan or a christian wiccan / witch, it don't work that way. You cannot be lukewarm, you have to be on Gods side or you're automatically on the devils side.

They are still Christian Wiccans. Take a little search on the internet. And, BTW, I don't want to became a Christian. I'm happy as a Wicca/witch. I don't want to change my religion.

 

[Hekate]

You have not described Christianity, you have described religion.
No wonder you hated it.

Christianity is not rules, regulations, and church standards........but instead its God loving you, Christ loving you and dying for you, and you being in love with them.

I understand the point that you want to do. But all Christian religions are based on the Bible, and their different understanding of the Bible. everyone reads the Bible differently. A white man will read differently, as an African American woman. Because these white matter of how the Bible has often been misused to disparage it as colored and as a woman.
What the Bible really says?
To understand this, one must observe both the historical and textual context, and be familiar with the origin of words. If you can do that, the Bible can have a great benefit to people. The "cherry picking" the Christians often leads to misunderstandings and false interpretations.

 

[Wryetui]

Were you a member of a coven, or were you a solitary witch who learned everything from books? I have learned in a coven. My teacher taught me everything, and encouraged me to seek my own path. Because in Wicca there are, as you may know, is no absolute truth. Everything is, such as life, in a constant flux. There are a few basics that heed all more or less.

A witch is a girl, a boy is considered a warlock haha Yes, I was alone, I didn't have a coven because no one else was wiccan over here, also, what I disliked about wicca is the chaos in belief, everyone believed what they wanted, there was no divine revelation as in christianity, no God talking to people, just a compilation of pagan beliefs from there and there with no sustent.

 

[paulm50]

I generally agree with your post, yet I have a relationship with the God that the imperfect men were is search of. You also omitted the preservation of positive values by religious institutions as imperfect as they are.

Also, the concepts of heaven in pop culture are inadequate, I believe the only thing added to us when we awake on the shores of the next world will be the fact of survival, we will pick up right where we left off in spiritual growth and understanding. Our memories will only include the positive learning experiences of this life. Much more work and adventure lay ahead as we make our way inward to the Father, from their endless service and joy.

Agreed Colter. Now there are many things the Church has done that's good.

Yes inter marrying was part of the process. I'm referring to the sacking of many cities like Jericho. Armed with an ultimate WMD, that God told them to build.

Hekate explains it well. An organisation that can lead people to do as a leader tells them. Everything depends on the leader, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Popes and Bishops who told their followers to kill others. They're about to make a Pope a Saint. Who sat over the mass abuse of children by his priests and Nuns. To say he know nothing of it, is foolish.

 

[Colter]

Agreed Colter. Now there are many things the Church has done that's good.

Yes inter marrying was part of the process. I'm referring to the sacking of many cities like Jericho. Armed with an ultimate WMD, that God told them to build.

Hekate explains it well. An organisation that can lead people to do as a leader tells them. Everything depends on the leader, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Popes and Bishops who told their followers to kill others. They're about to make a Pope a Saint. Who sat over the mass abuse of children by his priests and Nuns. To say he know nothing of it, is foolish.

Its not God that changes, it's man understanding of God, periodically updated by revelation. The prophets and seers railed against the "worldly" behavior of the corrupt priest class. Remember, it wasn't the atheist, the agnostic or the scientist who rejected and killed Jesus, it was the religious experts in the temple. The common people heard Jesus gladly.

Every institution of man is susceptible to corruption. Jesus didn't establish a human institution per-say, his original ideal was a spiritual fellowship comprised of those who by faith realized that all men and women are the sons and daughters of God, that we are all brothers and sisters. He called it "The Kingdom of Heaven"....it was generic and could have reformed and modified many existing religions. Unfortunately his followers didn't remain true to the original gospel, in the failure of the Jesus ideals they established an institutional church. Soon Christianity acquired the same human problems that the Sanhedrin or any other institution had.

The Christian church has many sins of its own, we regret our failure and would hope that this would not prevent the sincere of heart to find Christ on their own, personally, not discolored by our imperfections and failure to live up to his exalted life purpose.

"The Kingdom of heaven is within you."

 

[Hekate]

A witch is a girl, a boy is considered a warlock.

First of all, I don't know, which kind of sex you got. BTW, In Wiccan, WICCA is FEMALE, WICCAN is MALE. And, WITCH is female, WIZZARD is male. Every Pagan in the first lesson did know that.

Yes, I was alone, I didn't have a coven because no one else was wiccan over here, also, what I disliked...

I had suspected. you have so much idea of Wicca, as the use of a gun I. Books are only as good as the people who write them. And just as good as people can understand it.

... about wicca is the chaos in belief, everyone believed what they wanted, there was no divine revelation as in christianity, no God talking to people, just a compilation of pagan beliefs from there and there with no sustent.

This shows me that you have absolutely no idea of Wicca. That would be as if I'd condemn Christianity, and would told you, that I would have had clue for many years. And if you could put me to the test, you realize quickly that I know little about Christianity. Just as an example for illustration. In fact, I know a lot about Christianity.
They are different paths in paganism. I for example follow the dianic path, a so called "feminist path". others are saxon, nordic, indianic, shamanic or celtic, to name a few. As their are different paths/Churches in Christianity or other religions. Some of them believe on God in one way, others in another way. None of them are better than the other.

 

[Hekate]

Hekate explains it well. An organisation that can lead people to do as a leader tells them. Everything depends on the leader, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Popes and Bishops who told their followers to kill others. They're about to make a Pope a Saint. Who sat over the mass abuse of children by his priests and Nuns. To say he know nothing of it, is foolish.

Child abuse happens in every church, sect or cult. To me, that's bad, but not the worst thing at all. it is the cover-up of child abuse, the "blame the victim", the "look away", which made it happen. The Bible was often misused (better raped) to condemn other people, or to judge killing and raping. Especially at the OT.

 

[Hekate]

One of the things that do many Christians prefer, is to condemn others. This "forgotten" them as many times what Jesus said:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. (Matthew 7.1,2)

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (Luke 6:37)

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? (Luke 6: 41)

And Paul said:

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. (Romans 2:1)

And James wrote:

"Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. (James 4:11)