Christianity - From a pagan point of view considered

[Hekate]

Before I became a Wiccan, I was a member of a Christian church. In this church (Baptist), I often had the impression that I am to submit to certain standards, because it would be "the best" for me. And I so could show my love and obedience to God.
I am subjected to the rules, but I felt this very uncomfortable and unhappy. Why? By nature I am a person who is very loving justice. And in my church were women, from my vantage point; treated unfairly. In addition, I am a lesbian, and even that has not been accepted in the Church. And above all, I have studied the Bible intensely, and on some issues (such as the female subordination, or the character Jesus) a dissenting opinion. Uniformity was more important in my old church, as spirituality.
If the Christian in all the churches so, or something like that?
Certainly not!
But in too many churches, it is so!
According to a survey in the United States there are more people who would describe themselves as non-believers. Why? What do the religions wrong?
Is perhaps from the good news of the Gospel become an imminent message?

 

[WirSindBettler]

There was a period in my life in which I seriously considered becoming an Ásatrúar, especially in the folkish [ethnic non-racist] strain. I had read the Eddur and parts of the Heimskringla, and thought that the ways of my ancestors would be better than Christianity.

It's an interesting story, if you'd ever like to hear it.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I like the gospels, especially the parables and the ethical teachings, I find them inspiring although a bit OTT at times. When I go to church it often seems like this has been forgotten, its more about corporate worship - singing, prayer, offering etc.

Instead I go to the mosque, and this is a cheat: more corporate worship, but there I love it, I find it inspiring...

As for Wicca I dont know too much about it. I think what is important is finding your path, not what others say your path is. Your path will make you feel excited, glad to be alive, tingle in the morning when you get up, give a sense of belonging and purpose etc. Or? Well, you should know best.

 

[Hekate]

There was a period in my life in which I seriously considered becoming an Ásatrúar, especially in the folkish [ethnic non-racist] strain. I had read the Eddur and parts of the Heimskringla, and thought that the ways of my ancestors would be better than Christianity.
It's an interesting story, if you'd ever like to hear it.

I guess, we are ALL spiritual searchers. And we want to find a religion, which fit with our personality. A racist would join a racist church, a gay person would join a gay friendly church. And a person who find judging and hate inside a christian religion he loved once, ,may join a non-christian religion, because he is mad/afraid/angry or sad about his/her old religion.

 

[Hekate]

As for Wicca I dont know too much about it. I think what is important is finding your path, not what others say your path is. Your path will make you feel excited, glad to be alive, tingle in the morning when you get up, give a sense of belonging and purpose etc. Or? Well, you should know best.

It's NOT about Wicca (especially my path, the dianic path of the Goddness) it isn't so much about Christianity, but it is a lot about respect to each other. Why do some so called "Christians" condemned my path as evil, demonic or satanic, but expect from Pagans/others, that we respect their path. But, respect is NOT A ONE-WAY-STREET!

 

[paulm50]

In this church (Baptist), I often had the impression that I am to submit to certain standards, because it would be "the best" for me. And I so could show my love and obedience to God.

This is my opinion, just as it is theirs that tell us they know the truth.

Those standards show obedience to the men telling you what to obey.

They have as much idea as I do what God, should he exist, wants. And it's most certainly not to be found in any books written by men, or women.

 

[WirSindBettler]

I guess, we are ALL spiritual searchers. And we want to find a religion, which fit with our personality. A racist would join a racist church, a gay person would join a gay friendly church. And a person who find judging and hate inside a christian religion he loved once, ,may join a non-christian religion, because he is mad/afraid/angry or sad about his/her old religion.

Now, I'm not going to believe that this isn't in the least bit biased, although it does seem that you're church fell a bit more within the Holiness strain of arminianism rather than in a more traditional balance between Law and Gospel, but the truth is, Christianity is not a "judging" and "hate filled" religion. You said in your OP that you disagreed with "this Jesus character" although he continually and regularly preaches love, peace, reconciliation, and forgiveness.

Could you even consider for one small moment that you are perhaps projecting your own angers about being a lesbian in a theologically orthodox church onto your view of Christianity?

That's as "judging and hateful" as you claim Christianity to be!

It's NOT about Wicca (especially my path, the dianic path of the Goddness) it isn't so much about Christianity, but it is a lot about respect to each other. Why do some so called "Christians" condemned my path as evil, demonic or satanic, but expect from Pagans/others, that we respect their path. But, respect is NOT A ONE-WAY-STREET!

"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
Matthew 12:31

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
John 14:1-7

 

[Albion]

It's NOT about Wicca (especially my path, the dianic path of the Goddness) it isn't so much about Christianity, but it is a lot about respect to each other. Why do some so called "Christians" condemned my path as evil, demonic or satanic, but expect from Pagans/others, that we respect their path. But, respect is NOT A ONE-WAY-STREET!

I don't know that very many Christians DO indeed expect respect from witches and members of cults, etc. But most people IMHO think that we ought at least be civil towards each other.

 

[paulm50]

"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
Matthew 12:31

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
John 14:1-7

It's pieces like those that have led to the mass slaughter of many, even genocide. By people who took Jesus's "me" as being them. No need to list them, we all know them.

 

[Hekate]

Could you even consider for one small moment that you are perhaps projecting your own angers about being a lesbian in a theologically orthodox church onto your view of Christianity?

I'll do anything! The "problem" that I have is that Jesus is supposed to be "divine". And, for there is no evidence. I am a Wiccan, and was a Christian. And, I had my reason for changing. And that had less to do with my sexual orientation, but rather with the fact that was required of me to believe anything without contradiction. And that is against my nature. I am a very thoughtful and critical person. I need evidence that something would at least be possible. There is much evidence from antiquity about other "gods" or great men, which is said to have exactly the same as Jesus Christ.

That's as "judging and hateful" as you claim Christianity to be!

I do not judge, and I do not hate Christianity also. I'm just telling you why I think the way I think. If you have a problem with that, it's your problem, not my problem.

"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
Matthew 12:31

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
John 14:1-7

That's what I meant. This "either-or" thinking. Either you're obedient, or you go to hell.
And who says that there is no more than one path which leads to the goal? To believe that there is only one way, only one goal, is counterproductive and dangerous.

 

[Hekate]

It's pieces like those that have led to the mass slaughter of many, even genocide. By people who took Jesus's "me" as being them. No need to list them, we all know them.

Ands till today, so called "Christians" did it by word, and by their actions.

 

[High Fidelity]

I guess, we are ALL spiritual searchers. And we want to find a religion, which fit with our personality. A racist would join a racist church, a gay person would join a gay friendly church. And a person who find judging and hate inside a christian religion he loved once, ,may join a non-christian religion, because he is mad/afraid/angry or sad about his/her old religion.

Well, just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.

You either believe the biblical account of faith or you don't. If you do then you accept and submit where necessary. If you don't, you move along.

Faith isn't about cherry picking aspects you like and aspects you don't.

 

[Wryetui]

I was studying Wicca a few years ago, even made some book of shadows (I still keep them) hehe I had all my ritual stuff, my athame, my wands, the objects representing the god and the goddess and everything, even made up my own spells and rituals, but then it all ended when I realized that I am worshipping creatures instead worshipping the Creator. Wicca become an idolatrous dream I just had to me and instead of worshipping the nature I prefered to worship the Creator of nature and instead of seeking what I like I started seeking the truth even if I didn't like it, and opening my heart made God lead me to Orthodoxy.

God bless you so you can find the truth too!

 

[Hekate]

Well, just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.

You either believe the biblical account of faith or you don't. If you do then you accept and submit where necessary. If you don't, you move along.

Faith isn't about cherry picking aspects you like and aspects you don't.

Patrick, I was just trying to explain how most people choose their religion. No more, no less. And again I read something that I find abhorrent. This "either-or thing." Either you believe (without the slightest proof), or you are the enemy! This, please excuse me, is childish thinking. Life is complex, and even faith is complex. ; With, to "cherry-pick" the no one is helped.

 

[Hekate]

I was studying Wicca a few years ago, even made some book of shadows (I still keep them) hehe I had all my ritual stuff, my athame, my wands, the objects representing the god and the goddess and everything, even made up my own spells and rituals, but then it all ended when
. Wicca become an idolatrous dream I just had to me and instead of worshipping the nature I prefered to worship the Creator of nature and instead of seeking what I like I started seeking the truth even if I didn't like it, and opening my heart made God lead me to Orthodoxy.

God bless you so you can find the truth too!

This is your experience, and your opinion. That's your way. And I accept it, and I wish you on your further way a lot of joy and a little sorrow. My way is different. My experiences are different. My opinion is different. That is why I also say that there is not only one way. That there are many ways to divine knowledge.
On a personal opinion about your contribution:

If you write:

"... I realized that I am worshiping creatures instead worshiping the Creator", I think you have not understood the essence of Wicca, and also not the magic in it. How did you become a Wiccan?

 

[High Fidelity]

And who says that there is no more than one path which leads to the goal? To believe that there is only one way, only one goal, is counterproductive and dangerous.

Counter-productive and dangerous how?

If you believe and know something

Patrick, I was just trying to explain how most people choose their religion. No more, no less. And again I read something that I find abhorrent. This "either-or thing." Either you believe (without the slightest proof), or you are the enemy! This, please excuse me, is childish thinking. Life is complex, and even faith is complex. ; With, to "cherry-pick" the no one is helped.

And yet the Bible tells us to test everything.

 

[paulm50]

That's what I meant. This "either-or" thinking. Either you're obedient, or you go to hell.
And who says that there is no more than one path which leads to the goal? To believe that there is only one way, only one goal, is counterproductive and dangerous.

I don't mind them telling to go to hell, it's when they try to send me there faster I take offence at. And that has been the history of Christians for the last 1400 years. Even today some will kill others because hey're convinced it's what God wants them to do. To be honest 99.999% of Christians have moved on, Judaism and Islam still clings to the practise.

The last Christian execution for heresy was 26 July 1826 in Valencia. Did the Christians stop it happening or the people of the time?

If you do then you accept and submit where necessary. If you don't, you move along.

Faith isn't about cherry picking aspects you like and aspects you don't.

The submit part is often delivered by wealthy men, claiming to speak for a man with no possessions. And always ends up with us giving them money. Even today this is so.

As for cherry picking, that's what religious people do all the time.

If Christ had come down off the cross, proved he is who his followers claim, was still here to prove it. Billions of lives would of been saved, we would have heaven on earth and not a vague promise.

To claim he's divine, must lead one to believe, what has happened because he died, is what he intended.

 

[paulm50]

Counter-productive and dangerous how?

If you believe and know something

Counter productive because of all the wars between Christians and now Muslims.

And yet the Bible tells us to test everything.

And yet the people holding the Bibles, tell us to test nothing, and take everything as the people interpreting the bible tell us. They burned people at the stake for having the audacity to think the bible should be in the common language, so everyone could read it.

 

[High Fidelity]

Counter productive because of all the wars between Christians and now Muslims.



And yet the people holding the Bibles, tell us to test nothing, and take everything as the people interpreting the bible tell us. They burned people at the stake for having the audacity to think the bible should be in the common language, so everyone could read it.

People can use most belief sets as justification to do terrible things. It doesn't mean they're right in doing so.

Faiths are not exempt from that human ignorance.

 

[Colter]

There are faults and flaws in all evolutionary institutions, human writings, interpretations of divine interventions.

I realized at some point in my life that focusing on the faults of religion was blocking me from the truths of religion.

Jesus was Liberal for his age, but he had to be relative to the age in which he visited the earth.

Jesus was very liberal to the women of his day, more so than is appreciated. Unfortunately Paul (who never knew Jesus) brought common prejudices along with his own Pagan religious baggage that contaminate, dominates and obscures the original gospel.