Christianity and the Occult: Help me

[Seeker1911]

Hello. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I couldn't see it fitting into any others. Feel free to move it if it is.

Let me give you a short background. I was raised in a Christian home and sasved at the young age of 11 or so. By age 15, I began exploring other schools of thought. I have been studying Satanism and the Occult for about 2 years now.

I have been challenged by them to find Christians to debate with before taking any kind of devotional plunge. Please rest assured, I do not want to start any arguments. I simply want the truth. I desperately want to believe in Christianity, but Satanism makes so much sense to me. help me restore my faith. If you can converse with me and make me see something irrefutable and true about christianity, I will start reading the bible again...I'll turn away from this occultic crap. But I need to see the truth.
Tell me why Christianity is the right path. If I can't see it for myself, I have no choice but to follow what seems truer to me. And right now it's the Occult.

 

[drich0150]

Tell me why Christianity is the right path. If I can't see it for myself, I have no choice but to follow what seems truer to me. And right now it's the Occult.

Christianity is only a "right choice" if you wish to have a relationship with God. You can not do that from where you are now.

Also know that "truth" is not an emotion. The truth is a standard or unchanging, as you thread suggests for you truth is tied to feelings. Why would you place your trust/faith in something that is ever changing?

 

[Seeker1911]

Christianity is only a "right choice" if you wish to have a relationship with God. You can not do that from where you are now.

Also know that "truth" is not an emotion. The truth is a standard or unchanging, as you thread suggests for you truth is tied to feelings. Why would you place your trust/faith in something that is ever changing?

Of course, the entire purpose of this is a search for simply that, a relationship with God. The question at the center of this argument is "Who is God?". What burns in my mind is the uncertainty of it all. When I was a Christian, I never felt any kind of special connection with Jehova, or Christianity's God. Even though I tried numerous times. In that respect, I believe it's only common sense to search for the truth elsewhere if you're not finding it in where you're currently looking.

I realize truth is static and not tied to emotion. But it's very prominent to "feel" when something is false. But then, perhaps I only feel Christianity is false because I was not doing it "right" in the first place.

these are the contributing factors in my search for a personal answer. I suppose the core of this entire discussion is simply this: I DO want a relationship with God, and how can I believe Christianity is the right way if that relationship was never attainable to me when I sincerely tried and needed God the most? Perhaps I was arrogant. I don't know. It is questions like these that I need sincere help with.

 

[talitha]

The truth is, Christianity seems truer to you, and you are feeling frustrated with it because of something you are not getting out of it. For you, getting into the occult would be a way of acting out your anger at God, and you want to feel justified in acting out this anger by the inability of Christians to "prove" something to you. I don't really think that any "proof" at this point is going to speak to the place in your heart that needs to be touched. What is it that you want out of a relationship with God?
bless you
tal

 

[ProScribe]

Explore Christianity - the true religion

Stay away from the Occult and Magick

You should read this Bible verse in Deuteronomy:

(Deuteronomy 18.10) There shall not be found in you one who passes his son or his daughter through the fire, one that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a whisperer of spells (11) or a magic charmer, or one asking of familiar spirits, or a wizard, or one inquiring of the dead.

 

[AlexBP]

Let me give you a short background. I was raised in a Christian home and sasved at the young age of 11 or so. By age 15, I began exploring other schools of thought. I have been studying Satanism and the Occult for about 2 years now.

Most people, when they are young are only exposed to the one church or denomination that their parents are part of, and that means that they don't have experience with the wide range theologies and practices that constitute Christianity as a whole. If this is true for you, the best thing you can do to grow in faith as a Christian is to explore around. Talk to friends and anyone else who's willing to talk about their experiences in other churches. Learn about different practices, different approaches to prayer, different ways of living out the Christian life. Perhaps you will find that a true understanding of the Christian way comes from an avenue very different than what you've been exposed to.

There's no need to be afraid about the fact that you don't feel an emotional connection to Christ at this moment. The same has been true about many great Christians at various parts of their lives. Mother Teresa said that God was absent during the last 27 years of her life. It is simply the nature of Jesus as God that He is not speaking directly to all believers all the time. Some persons He has a close relationship to, but others He leaves to explore more or less on their own.

The most important thing to remember about Satan is that he is a deceiver. Many people enter the occult and at first find it liberating to do spiritual things without rules, rituals, or a community with leaders. Hey, at first it probably is liberating, but just as with drugs or alcohol or promiscuous sex, the hidden downside is revealed after you're drawn into the lifestyle and can't easily get out.

 

[drich0150]

The question at the center of this argument is "Who is God?".

This is a simple answer but it is the most accurate complete way to describe God when you give it thought.

God is the Alpha, and the Omega the beginning and the End of everything. As God Himself puts it: "I Am."

What burns in my mind is the uncertainty of it all. When I was a Christian, I never felt any kind of special connection with Jehova, or Christianity's God. Even though I tried numerous times. In that respect, I believe it's only common sense to search for the truth elsewhere if you're not finding it in where you're currently looking.

That's just it you were looking for a specific "feeling" or a certain type of verification of God, Kinda Like most Atheists. they too have a preconceived idea of what God is supposed to Be. If you take your idea and compare it to the definition above, inevitably what you are looking for will fall short of who God is. So the question is how does one approach God for a definition or proof? We do this by humbling ourselves, and following what God has outlined as the way to establish a relationship with Him. Through the Gospel (as a former Christian I assume you know what that is), and through the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus tells us how to obtain the gift of the Holy Spirit in Luke 11:


5Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, 6because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.'
7"Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' 8I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness[e] he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"


We ask through prayer, we seek in scripture, and through those who exhibit signs of "Spiritual Fruit." Gal 5: 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
We knock by repeating this process until we get what it is our hearts truly wants.

When we try and work our idea of religion in order to try and find God often time we only find more religion. It is only though the Holy Spirit do we ever get a chance to "experience" (not necessarily feel) God.

This doesn't mean you won't "feel" something it's just not always going to work that way. It depends on you and the condition of your heart.

I DO want a relationship with God, and how can I believe Christianity is the right way if that relationship was never attainable to me when I sincerely tried and needed God the most? Perhaps I was arrogant. I don't know. It is questions like these that I need sincere help with.

If you feel you were truly just going through the motions of Christianity the first time then I would suggest that you approach God as if it were your first time and confess your sins and ask Jesus into your heart. If you want to study this process a little more then simply post or PM me.

 

[razeontherock]

Ok first, how are you going to get a relationship with God by pursuing satan?
Next, can you tell us what or who you think satan is?

These are important issues, so let's look over your post for clues to this:

The question at the center of this argument is "Who is God?". What burns in my mind is the uncertainty of it all.

I realize truth is static and not tied to emotion. But it's very prominent to "feel" when something is false. But then, perhaps I only feel Christianity is false because I was not doing it "right" in the first place.

Any born again Christian should be able to recognize from these words that you are, in fact, under the influence of satan NOW. If you'll pardon the phrase, there's not a chance in hell that you were ever this confused about who God is when you were previously involved in Church, even if it wasn't as deep a relationship w/ the Lord as we all need.

Next, God deals with the unseen aspect(s) of who we are that are eternal, and He puts them out in the open, in front of you so you can see it. satan hides all lasting consequences, and addresses short term desires. He can begin with your's, because he's not entirely stupid.

There is a verse that tells us what will happen when everyone satan has deceived finally gets to see him for what he really is: they will say, this is who we served?

Bottom line which you know to be true, is in the long run you're better off worshiping God than satan, even if that meant being miserable for this life, which amounts to a very short time as compared to eternity. Not a sexy answer, but there it is. And I don't think you're too far gone yet to be able to see the sense of this.

how can I believe Christianity is the right way if that relationship was never attainable to me when I sincerely tried and needed God the most?

Again, your words reflect that of someone who thinks he needs to somehow reach up into heaven to grab a hold of God, otherwise all hope is lost. That idea comes from satan.

Christianity is the one thing in this world where God came DOWN from heaven, to seek and to save that which is lost. Does that fit your description? If you think it does, then you're in luck! Just realize it is the shed blood of Jesus Christ, on the cross, which is the only thing we have in common with Him, the only thing that could ever possibly make us a part of His family. He who knew no sin became sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And if you have any lingering effects of the occult, that shed blood is your FIRST line of defense! Have it "applied to the doorposts of your heart."

Now, as far as going deeper into Christianity than you ever did previously, a very good place to start is by understanding what that last sentence means. Look at the very top of this screen and click on the tab "Be a Christian." The Sabbath was always spent studying Scripture, ALL DAY. Do it, TODAY. Just because you have that choice now, doesn't mean you'll be able to tomorrow.

Seek God's with your whole heart, and He'll be found by you TODAY. That's His promise! If you have a better idea fine, by I would suggest your first prayer would be for God to apply the blood of Jesus Christ to the doorposts of your heart, to your mind, to your whole life - and then ask Him to show you what that means. Ask Him to make Himself real to you in any way He pleases. Pour out your heart to Him, and intentionally intensify your desire for a relationship with Him. An old-timers saying applies here; grab onto the horns of the altar of prayer and DON'T LET GO!

 

[Seeker1911]

Thanks for the thorough replies. I have to say the one thing that has stuck out to me on this topic would be what Talitha said.

The truth is, Christianity seems truer to you, and you are feeling frustrated with it because of something you are not getting out of it.

Examining my post and myself, that's (surprisingly to me) very true, at least the first part. Christianity does strike truer with me in opposition to what I said in my first topic, however, as explained, the absence of God that I felt when a Christian did frustrate me.

Ok first, how are you going to get a relationship with God by pursuing satan?
Next, can you tell us what or who you think satan is?

In answer to the first question, it is by assumption that God as Jehova is not God at all, and that He must be some other figure. This is an assumption that I've only come to by experience. As for the Second, I'll have to write a lengthier response later.

Perhaps the topic of this post should be shifted to a different question, recognizing that deep down I really do want a relationship with God, Jehova, whatever you name him, and DO know Christianity to be true...But how can I feel God? I'm not asking for proof. I don't want evidence. But I do want something that inspires faith in me. I want to experience God.

 

[beforHim]

But how can I feel God? I'm not asking for proof. I don't want evidence. But I do want something that inspires faith in me. I want to experience God.

There will always be posts here that don't attempt to answer the actual question. And now that you've explained more, here's all I can say:

It is very true for me that I don't "feel" God, ever. I feel my emotions sometimes, and I feel the awesomeness of God (all loving- WOW!), but I never have emotional, warm fuzzsies or even some "numinous" feeling about God. Very few times can I truely say I have "felt" God- that is, very few times withpout me second guessing my experience and realizing it was just emotions and such. That being said-

It seems most people actually "Feel" God when reading the scriptures, or praying and meditating on Him and His awesomeness (for instance omnipotence- it's amazing to have all power possible). Meditate on God dieing for humans, meditate on nothing stopping God from loving us, read scriptures and then glean out God's attributes (mercy, infinite, love, omnipotence, etc.).


The few times I have felt God was after I was seeking, for some time, a more powerful and close relationship with Him. So- no evidence? Well, I have tons. Feeling God- I ave very little. But I know that, via my evidence, I can trust those few times of experienciong God (after much seeking of Him).



Hope this helps!

 

[razeontherock]

recognizing that deep down I really do want a relationship with God, Jehova, whatever you name him, and DO know Christianity to be true... But I do want something that inspires faith in me. I want to experience God.

Stick with even just this much and you're my Brother! And welcome to the family.

Now what you're saying is you want not only intellectual understanding of the Bible, but you want God's word to come ALIVE both to you and IN you. Yes, I do realize those aren't the words you used, but what "inspires Faith" is the word of God. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing, the word of God." Hearing at 2 levels; let it sink in! So when you say you want to experience "whatever you call Him," this is what you're really looking for. "Rivers of living water flowing from your innermost being."

Let me start this right now by pointing out that the Old Testament is very much individuals giving God a new name of their own choosing, much like God wanted to see what Adam would call various creatures. And in the New Testament, Paul preached a sermon of "the unknown God." A Church had a song "Jesus is my becoming one, He becomes everything I need." As He revealed Himself to His children He became not only "I Am," but "I Am" (the Lord that heals you), "I Am" (the Lord that provides for you), "I Am" (the banner under which you fight), "I Am" (the Lord your Peace), and more depending on how He revealed Himself. And today we even have "I Am" the Lord OUR righteousness! So you very much want your OWN perception(s) of Him. That's the way this works ...

 

[talitha]

Christianity does strike truer with me in opposition to what I said in my first topic, however, as explained, the absence of God that I felt when a Christian did frustrate me.

I was saved as a child too. And I was a very zealous Christian. But there came a time when I thought something was missing. I slipped away, and I found myself far from God. I got into all sorts of things, including a form of Chinese fortune telling. When I finally decided to return to God, I found that He had never left me. I soon found myself in a much more vital and true and deep relationship than ever before. Looking back, I think I had to go through a crisis of faith in order to come into my own personal relationship with God. Now I know that my faith is not my parents' but truly my own. Maybe you are in the midst of that precious, precarious, vital time in your life. I pray that the Lord will bring you through to the other side.
blessings
tal

 

[Seeker1911]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm taking all of them into consideration. I have a request to make. I ask that if someone who's very knowledgable and experienced with Christianity to tell me their own experience with this battle and to talk to me personally over an instant messenger about this and answer questions for me. I know it's a lot to ask. Is anyone up to this? Post here or PM me your info if you are.

I need to personally talk to someone about this. Thank you

 

[The Penitent Man]

Hello. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I couldn't see it fitting into any others. Feel free to move it if it is.

Let me give you a short background. I was raised in a Christian home and sasved at the young age of 11 or so. By age 15, I began exploring other schools of thought. I have been studying Satanism and the Occult for about 2 years now.

I have been challenged by them to find Christians to debate with before taking any kind of devotional plunge. Please rest assured, I do not want to start any arguments. I simply want the truth. I desperately want to believe in Christianity, but Satanism makes so much sense to me. help me restore my faith. If you can converse with me and make me see something irrefutable and true about christianity, I will start reading the bible again...I'll turn away from this occultic crap. But I need to see the truth.
Tell me why Christianity is the right path. If I can't see it for myself, I have no choice but to follow what seems truer to me. And right now it's the Occult.

And yet the occult is "crap?"

 

[andreha]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm taking all of them into consideration. I have a request to make. I ask that if someone who's very knowledgable and experienced with Christianity to tell me their own experience with this battle and to talk to me personally over an instant messenger about this and answer questions for me. I know it's a lot to ask. Is anyone up to this? Post here or PM me your info if you are.

I need to personally talk to someone about this. Thank you

Hi there Seeker1911

I've been a Christian for 33 years now - since age 5. I called on the name of the Lord, and my life was never the same again. I have a lot to share if you like. I could PM you, but until your post count hits 15, you won't be able to reply back. If you want to up your post count a bit, why not make a few posts in my counting thread here. Then we'll be able to exchange PM's without a problem.

Kind regards
Andre

 

[Seeker1911]

And yet the occult is "crap?"

Pardon my slang. I didn't mean anything certain.

 

[salida]

I strongly suggest that you refrain from occult activities if your seeking the christian walk. What the bible says about it:
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-occult.html?zoom_highlight=occult

The bible along with the holy spirit is the foundation for christians concerning ultimate authority. Some sources in this-
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com. And you can read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/

Christian concept: www.livingwaters.com/good/

Again I can show you all the evidence in the world but your free will is going determine your life and where you seek your treasures. Its a spiritual decision first and an intellectual one second. I came to the Lord when I was 19-its been 30 years.

Also, I'm curious why the occult makes more sense to you? Feel free to email me also on this site.

　

 

[The Penitent Man]

Pardon my slang. I didn't mean anything certain.

Oh, I don't mind the slang.

 

[Colin]

Hello. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I couldn't see it fitting into any others. Feel free to move it if it is.

Let me give you a short background. I was raised in a Christian home and sasved at the young age of 11 or so. By age 15, I began exploring other schools of thought. I have been studying Satanism and the Occult for about 2 years now.

I have been challenged by them to find Christians to debate with before taking any kind of devotional plunge. Please rest assured, I do not want to start any arguments. I simply want the truth. I desperately want to believe in Christianity, but Satanism makes so much sense to me. help me restore my faith. If you can converse with me and make me see something irrefutable and true about christianity, I will start reading the bible again...I'll turn away from this occultic crap. But I need to see the truth.
Tell me why Christianity is the right path. If I can't see it for myself, I have no choice but to follow what seems truer to me. And right now it's the Occult.

I can only suggest that you look to Jesus.
Read Mark's Gospel and see how Jesus dealt with Satanic powers.
Ask the Holy Spirit to lead you into the fullness of the truth.
Seek a Christian who has had experience of dealing with the Occult.
Jesus is the victor over Satan and his evil spirits.
Read the list of the fruits of the Spirit in Galations 5:22. and ask yourself whether you really want these or what the Occult offers.

 

[Orraez]

Explore Christianity - the true religion

Stay away from the Occult and Magick

You should read this Bible verse in Deuteronomy:

(Deuteronomy 18.10) There shall not be found in you one who passes his son or his daughter through the fire, one that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a whisperer of spells (11) or a magic charmer, or one asking of familiar spirits, or a wizard, or one inquiring of the dead.

The penalties were also very tough.

Leviticus 20:27 (New International Version)


27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

Exodus 22:18
"Do not allow a sorceress to live"

Exodus 22:20 (New International Version)


Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

Not that I am recommending the death of the original enquirer !!! Just stating what the Bible says

1. Matthew 5:17
   Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
2. Matthew 5:18
   I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.