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Christianity... and the fact of evolution

pat34lee

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So you accept the hoax of those who value complete ignorance in Christians. I find that sad.

Nope. Those are the people duped into believing evolution or ID.

I did a bit of reading in 'true discernment' and of course, 'true discernment' is what the writer thinks. I think his tinfoil hat is a bit tight. Aspirins are the work of Satan? Amazing.

Do you think aspirin is a miracle drug? It is not as harmful as many, but it is
not completely safe. Many of the deaths in the Spanish flu epidemic were
from overdosing patients on aspirin.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/health/13aspirin.html

Then there is Reye's syndrome and stomach ulcers.

You might seriously consider Jesus' words in John's Gospel, chapter eight, verses 31 and 32:
31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Freedom from strange, constricting myths among other things.

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Proverbs 4:7
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
 
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Colter

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I would hope so and there is reason to believe that the text that we have, although almost certainly old and altered over the centuries was originally the Book of the Righteous (Jasher). The language is right and the book says the things that the Bible says it does.
This is not carefully preserved scripture we are talking about here. It is an ancient book that is subject to all of the vaguaries and copying errors of history so I don't think that anything written is authoritive and some of it is downright fantastic, but it is an indication of what may have been as a compliment to the Torah.
Ok, on the chance that the Jasher of old is close to the Jasher of today then there are only 12 missing books mentioned by the bible.
 
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Anguspure

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scientific theories explains the phenomenon.
Darwinian Natural Selection then is a theory, a good theory that explains the penomenon of biological variation within Genus in response to environmental change.

It is not however a blanket Evolutionary theory, because as it is only capable of acting on things that already exist, it is singularly unsuccesful at explaining the invention of new biological things or in fact any new thing at all. It is a tinkerer but not an inventor.

The attempt to extrapolate Natural selection as an explanation for biological genesis and invention is every bit as crack pot as the pursuit of Alchemy or Perpetual motion this is quite simply because functional coherence makes accidental invention fantastically improbable and therefore physically impossible.
 
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Indent

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Darwinian Natural Selection then is a theory, a good theory that explains the penomenon of biological variation within Genus in response to environmental change.

It is not however a blanket Evolutionary theory, because as it is only capable of acting on things that already exist, it is singularly unsuccesful at explaining the invention of new biological things or in fact any new thing at all. It is a tinkerer but not an inventor.

The attempt to extrapolate Natural selection as an explanation for biological genesis and invention is every bit as crack pot as the pursuit of Alchemy or Perpetual motion this is quite simply because functional coherence makes accidental invention fantastically improbable and therefore physically impossible.


It's a common strategy by some fundamentalist Christians to hoist a word salad of science-sounding onto people.

It almost gives the appearance that you understand the words being employed.

I'm glad that this dribble has managed to bring you some comfort, but it's a bit embarrassing from the other side of the table.

You do not need evolution theory to explain origins to know that we evolved. It's an addendum added to give yourself something to rebuke. It remains that we evolved, and the opening chapters of Genesis are myth.
 
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Anguspure

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It's a common strategy by some fundamentalist Christians to hoist a word salad of science-sounding onto people.

It almost gives the appearance that you understand the words being employed.

I'm glad that this dribble has managed to bring you some comfort, but it's a bit embarrassing from the other side of the table.
This sort of response lacks any engagement with the argument presented (perhaps because the presenter is unable to engage) and therefore provides me with even greater evedence of the veracity of what I have observed to be true.
Its interesting to me that I have yet to find anyone who is able to contend, with the following statement from Douglas Axe: Functional coherence makes accidental invention fantastically improbable and therefore physically impossible.
So thanks, the children had it right all along.

You do not need evolution theory to explain origins to know that we evolved. It's an addendum added to give yourself something to rebuke. It remains that we evolved, and the opening chapters of Genesis are myth.

Of course we have "evolved". I never denied it. We have all clearly "evolved" from the Protohomosapien (Adam). Just as domestic dogs have "evolved" from wild species of dog, and cars have all "evolved" from the early car designs of the 19th century.

But when Darwinian Natural Selection is invoked as the ToE-ToE we can know that here we have the Great Grandaddy of Fairy Tails that leads many in the destruction of reason itself.

But anyway you admit that Darwins Natural Selection is not the agent of Genesis so that is not such an issue here. But Natural Selection has also been invoked to explain the origin of new inventions as they have appeared in the biological record and this also is patently absurd.

Darwin stated that: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

Darwin was looking at things very simplistically however. He failed to appreciate the very large amount that needs to change not only genetically but also at the bauplan level for even a small invention. The amount of functional coherence expressed in any even aparantly inconsequential change is very significant.

A large number of organs and systems as well as other taxa defining novelties that have been identified especially from the recent field of Evo-Devo that have clearly arisen by a saltational event, find no analogue in any fossil or historical genetic record, and would not operate unless the functional coherence displayed were complete at each level.

Clearly where ever good common reason finds a refuge from Naturalistic insanity, Darwins theory is absolutely breaking down.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Darwinian Natural Selection then is a theory, a good theory that explains the penomenon of biological variation within Genus in response to environmental change.

It is not however a blanket Evolutionary theory, because as it is only capable of acting on things that already exist, it is singularly unsuccesful at explaining the invention of new biological things or in fact any new thing at all. It is a tinkerer but not an inventor.

The attempt to extrapolate Natural selection as an explanation for biological genesis and invention is every bit as crack pot as the pursuit of Alchemy or Perpetual motion this is quite simply because functional coherence makes accidental invention fantastically improbable and therefore physically impossible.

Hi Anguspure (and anyone else who happens to be reading),

Part of the problem with some Christian's understanding of Evolutionary Theory comes about because there are a few atheistic upstarts out there like Richard Dawkins who try to reify the meaning and use of the term, Theory of Evolution. To some extent, there is a misunderstanding about the nature of science among a number of Christians (particularly in the U.S.) and about its application of "theory" in its use to articulate a valid explanation as to how all organisms are related and have changed over very long periods of time. According to Richard Milner (1990),

Critics often charge that evolution by natural selection is "only a theory" and "cannot be proved." Charles Darwin would have agreed with them--not because he didn't believe in evolution, but because he was a subtle philosopher of science. He well understood that "induction" (going from facts to general principles) could not guarantee a final, absolute truth. But he was among the first to realize the enormous power and value of "provisional" truth in advancing human understanding.

Darwin caused a great uproar, not only by the substance of this theory, but also by his redefinition of science itself. Some critics were more upset at his insistence that there is not absolute truth in science than with his belief in man's kinship with the apes. A good scientific explanation, he thought, is simply one that accounts for the most facts at a given time. It does not need to be proven beyond all doubt as "true" forever. If a more productive and comprehensive explanations is devised, the theory is superseded or becomes a "special case" (p. 436)​

So, part of the problem is that there are some scientists out there (like Richard Dawkins) who DO say that science is truth and that any of its findings in the realm of facts related to the apparent evolution of biological life does disembowel the Bible of any potential for its own truth. The thing is, most scientists don't operate in the sciences with the same understanding, or I should say, "overstatement," about the nature of science with which Richard Dawkins operates. It is mainly voices like his among those who profess evolution, and who are vociferous atheists to boot who say things that give ultra-conservative Christians reason(s) to be concerned.

When most mainstream scientists talk about the operations of science, they usually do so in relation to the praxis provided by Methodological Naturalism (i.e. assuming God cannot be measured or be a controlled variable, and therefore cannot be a part of experimental research), whereas Dawkins operates with a praxis directed by Philosophical Naturalism (i.e. the assumption that any factual evidence about naturalism and evolution decisively shapes our understanding of the world and, thereby, automatically discounts the existence of God).

What is interesting to see is how an approach to science like that of Dawkins (an atheist) squares with a more mainstream scientist, Eugenie Scott (also an atheist), as seen in the following 8 minute video:


So, for those of us who advocate Methodological Naturalism rather than Philosophical Naturalism, there is little reason to throw our faith in Christ out the window just because life may have evolved.

2PhiloVoid

References​
Milner, Richard. (1990). The Encyclopedia of Evolution. New York, NY: Henry Holt and Company.
 
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giftofGod2

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It’s fascinating that Christians that know nothing about science be so bold in their statements.

There isn’t some hierarchy of scientific terms. It’s not like scientific theories grow up to become laws.

Where a scientific law describes an observation, scientific theories explains the phenomenon.

There are all kinds of scientific facts or “laws”, that's cute and all, but scientific theories are the real reason to get excited. It's far more useful and powerful to explain a phenomenon than to make note of it.

But thanks for quote mining the Bible.

You're Welcome! His word never returns void, but will accomplish the purpose for which He sent it. Isaiah 55.
 
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giftofGod2

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It’s fascinating that Christians that know nothing about science be so bold in their statements.

There isn’t some hierarchy of scientific terms. It’s not like scientific theories grow up to become laws.

Where a scientific law describes an observation, scientific theories explains the phenomenon.

There are all kinds of scientific facts or “laws”, that's cute and all, but scientific theories are the real reason to get excited. It's far more useful and powerful to explain a phenomenon than to make note of it.

But thanks for quote mining the Bible.

I know enough about science to understand that the idea of spontaneous generation (life coming from non-life) is a scientific impossibility! Thus how does the theory of evolution explain the origins of life?

In Creation Science, the Spirit who always was is, and shall be is the origin of life: our eternal and everlasting God who exists outside of created time.
 
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AV1611VET

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I know enough about science to understand that the idea of spontaneous generation (life coming from non-life) is a scientific impossibility! Thus how does the theory of evolution explain the origins of life?
They simply detach abiogenesis from the theory of evolution altogether and make it a separate doctrine.

They won't even acknowledge abiogenesis as part of cosmic evolution.
 
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Anguspure

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Hi Anguspure (and anyone else who happens to be reading),

Part of the problem with some Christian's understanding of Evolutionary Theory comes about because there are a few atheistic upstarts out there like Richard Dawkins who try to reify the meaning and use of the term, Theory of Evolution. To some extent, there is a misunderstanding about the nature of science among a number of Christians (particularly in the U.S.) and about its application of "theory" in its use to articulate a valid explanation as to how all organisms are related and have changed over very long periods of time. According to Richard Milner (1990),

Critics often charge that evolution by natural selection is "only a theory" and "cannot be proved." Charles Darwin would have agreed with them--not because he didn't believe in evolution, but because he was a subtle philosopher of science. He well understood that "induction" (going from facts to general principles) could not guarantee a final, absolute truth. But he was among the first to realize the enormous power and value of "provisional" truth in advancing human understanding.

Darwin caused a great uproar, not only by the substance of this theory, but also by his redefinition of science itself. Some critics were more upset at his insistence that there is not absolute truth in science than with his belief in man's kinship with the apes. A good scientific explanation, he thought, is simply one that accounts for the most facts at a given time. It does not need to be proven beyond all doubt as "true" forever. If a more productive and comprehensive explanations is devised, the theory is superseded or becomes a "special case" (p. 436)​

So, part of the problem is that there are some scientists out there (like Richard Dawkins) who DO say that science is truth and that any of its findings in the realm of facts related to the apparent evolution of biological life does disembowel the Bible of any potential for its own truth. The thing is, most scientists don't operate in the sciences with the same understanding, or I should say, "overstatement," about the nature of science with which Richard Dawkins operates. It is mainly voices like his among those who profess evolution, and who are vociferous atheists to boot who say things that give ultra-conservative Christians reason(s) to be concerned.

When most mainstream scientists talk about the operations of science, they usually do so in relation to the praxis provided by Methodological Naturalism (i.e. assuming God cannot be measured or be a controlled variable, and therefore cannot be a part of experimental research), whereas Dawkins operates with a praxis directed by Philosophical Naturalism (i.e. the assumption that any factual evidence about naturalism and evolution decisively shapes our understanding of the world and, thereby, automatically discounts the existence of God).

What is interesting to see is how an approach to science like that of Dawkins (an atheist) squares with a more mainstream scientist, Eugenie Scott (also an atheist), as seen in the following 8 minute video:


So, for those of us who advocate Methodological Naturalism rather than Philosophical Naturalism, there is little reason to throw our faith in Christ out the window just because life may have evolved.

2PhiloVoid

References​
Milner, Richard. (1990). The Encyclopedia of Evolution. New York, NY: Henry Holt and Company.
I have little trouble with the above as far as it goes. Scientism does nobody any favours and is clearly holding up the progress of Science.

I have already commented in the past that Richard Dawkins has done more than just about anyone in recent years to give the raise awareness and provide a platform for the Theism deabate in the mainstream, so I have little problem with his stance, in this regard.

You have chosen to go with a certain point of view on the Evolution-Creationism etc debate, and that is fine.

My issue with the OP here is that the "evolution" (whatever that means) is termed a "fact" of science without definition or quantification as suits mainstream beleivers in the concept who themselves have little understanding and would blithely follow [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] all the way to his blind, pitiless and indifferent world of morally indignent death.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I know enough about science to understand that the idea of spontaneous generation (life coming from non-life) is a scientific impossibility! Thus how does the theory of evolution explain the origins of life?

In Creation Science, the Spirit who always was is, and shall be is the origin of life: our eternal and everlasting God who exists outside of created time.

The truth is that just about any evolutionary scientist who is worth his or her salt would know better than to pontificate about connecting evolution with the origin of life--these are two different scientific issues. All the Theory of Evolution can be used for, on a factual level, is as an explanation that states that whatever biological life has existed on the earth, it is connected and has changed through time. The Theory of Evolution is not an explanation that accounts for the 'origin of life.' But, for some reason, it gets touted as if it somehow can and does do this very thing. When a scientist attempts to use the explanatory power of the idea of evolution to cover the origin of life, he is no longer doing science, but rather, he is doing philosophy. And that's where most of the semantic confusion comes in.

Peace
2PhiloVoid
 
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BobRyan

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If evolution is one of the strongest explanatory theories in any academic field, I mean, the evidence is simply overwhelming, how do Christians reconcile this?

What about the Biblical scholars that generally dismiss Genesis as a "historical" representation... but rather "myth" (however you want to define that)?

I understand I'm courting "controversy" here, but I'd genuinely like to hear this, supposedly, untouchable theological answer.


to the contrary
  • everyone can easily see that life-comes-from-life not from dirt and rocks.
  • Everyone can see - that in 50,000 generation experiment since 1988 - bacteria remain bacteria - and yet blind faith evolutionism 'imagines" that in LESS generations - humans evolved!!
  • Everyone can see "in real life" - the much-predicted y-chromosome Adam in real life - "observations in nature" -- and yet blind faith evolutionism has to 'imagine' a bunch of "Adams" that magically vanished from the entire genetic code of all mankind.
  • Everyone can see 'in real life' -- the much-predicted mitochondrial EVE -- in "observations in nature" -- and yet blind faith evolutionism is left to "imagine" a bunch of "Eve's" that magically vanished from the entire genetic code of all mankind
  • Everyone can see "in real life" -- attempt after attempt by evolutionists to 'double-down' on the "stories easy enough to tell" methods that were entirely debunked even by your own evolutionist leadership. Why do they "double-down on junk-science methods"? answer: Because that is all they have !
  • Everyone can see that the earth and moon could not possibly come from the accretion disk of the 90%-hydrogen sun -- and yet blind faith evolutionism has to "imagine" the sun snatching earth and moon from outer space.
  • Everyone can see that a mere 100,000 years of erosion would have wiped out all mountains on earth that are 100,000 years or older.
  • Everyone can see that the Bible dictates a 7 day creation week in Ex 20:8-11 so the Bible is either condemned or ignored by those devotees to evolutionism - that prefer wild guessing -- to the Word of God, to science, to actual observations in nature.
  • Everyone can SEE that even your own blind-faith evolutionists are forced to admit to the fact that observations in nature show that life is designed - for a purpose -- much to their own consternation

"“biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

See it in living color ---

Christians choose to believe the Bible. Even when it is "inconvenient".

In Romans 1 - Paul says Christians choose to accept rather than reject "observations in nature" -- science. But Paul also says in Romans 1 that non-Christians will often choose to reject what is clearly seen regarding our Creator - in nature - and deny God.

Here is a great example where "observations in nature" merely affirm our belief in the Bible and expose a few more flaws in what is known as blind-faith-evolutionism.

"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

Acceptance of real science such as observable biology (as we see in this case) and physics, chemistry, mathematics etc - have strong Bible affirming results as we see in this case.

In the Bible we have this "legal code" -

Ex 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy - SIX days you shall labor... For in SIX days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Gen 2:1-3

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made

No such language found in even ONE of evolutionism's 'texts' to state that particular "belief".

Romans 1 says that our infinite God has made what we see around us - and that HIS "invisible attributes are CLEARLY SEEN in the things that have been MADE" -

Obviously atheists would not agree with that statement. Rejecting Romans 1 is a "distinctively atheist" position.[/QUOTE]
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I have little trouble with the above as far as it goes. Scientism does nobody any favours and is clearly holding up the progress of Science.

I have already commented in the past that Richard Dawkins has done more than just about anyone in recent years to give the raise awareness and provide a platform for the Theism deabate in the mainstream, so I have little problem with his stance, in this regard.

You have chosen to go with a certain point of view on the Evolution-Creationism etc debate, and that is fine.

My issue with the OP here is that the "evolution" (whatever that means) is termed a "fact" of science without definition or quantification as suits mainstream beleivers in the concept who themselves have little understanding and would blithely follow [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] all the way to his blind, pitiless and indifferent world of morally indignent death.

Yeah ... I understand that all too well, Anguspure. And I would encourage you to stand your ground as far as you have perceived that the Lord has led you to do so. Just do it with care my friend. And whatever you do, do it as unto the Lord. ;)

Peace
2PhiloVoid
 
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BobRyan

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If evolution is one of the strongest explanatory theories in any academic field, I mean, the evidence is simply overwhelming, how do Christians reconcile this?

What about the Biblical scholars that generally dismiss Genesis as a "historical" representation... but rather "myth" (however you want to define that)?

I understand I'm courting "controversy" here, but I'd genuinely like to hear this, supposedly, untouchable theological answer.

It is true that there are a lot of theistic evolutionists out there among Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Christians. No doubt.

but much of your post can be shown to be myth outside of that one fact.

===================

Darwin and Dawkins both looked into this and came to the same conclusion - better to "mock the Bible" in their POV.

The T.E. quote above is not the only one who claims that his Christianity was being set aside by belief in the doctrine on origins found in evolution -

Darwin also claimed that faith in evolutionism destroyed Christianity for him - ...


-- Darwinism leads to atheism according to a number of prominent scientists.

when Christians say that "rejecting Romans1 is a 'distinctively atheist' position" - they may be referring to this

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse


Darwinism's ability to destroy christian faith in those that accept it (given a long enough period of time) - is something that Christians 'should not notice' say 'some' in the Christian community. Others argue it should not be discussed so it can continue its work without detection.


"Among leading scientists in the field of evolution, 87% deny existence of God, 88% disbelieve in life after death, and 90% reject idea that evolution is directed Toward an “ultimate purpose.” 12 "
from http://www.kmlhs.org/UserFiles/Serv...e/FACULTY_FILES/Bartelt/losingfaith020214.pdf



Darwin's Christianity - destroyed by belief in evolution
===================================

Whilst on board the Beagle I was quite orthodox, and remember being heartily laughed at by several of the officers (though themselves orthodox) for quoting the Bible as an unanswerable authority on some point of morality. I suppose it was the novelty of the argument that amused thee.



But I had gradually come by this time, i.e. 1836 to 1839, to see that the Old Testament was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus….

By further reflecting… that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracle become, - that the men of the time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible to us,- that the Gospels cannot be proved to have been written simultaneously with the events,- that they differ in many important details…

I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation…. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can well remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans… which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct.



I can, indeed, hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true;

Darwin (1887) III p. 308 omits the last sentence which is included in the later version of the work [Barlow (1958)].

=====================


Romans 1 says that our infinite God has made what we see around us - and that HIS "invisible attributes are CLEARLY SEEN in the things that have been MADE" -

Obviously atheists would not agree with that Romans 1 statement. Rejecting Romans 1 is a "distinctively atheist" position.

Atheists often don't mind "admitting" to what the Bible says - they simply reject what it says. As in rejecting the virgin birth, the bodily ascension of Christ, the miracles of the bible and in this example they freely admit to what the Bible says - while rejecting it as 'truth'.

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

=======================

That is the opinion of professors not at all inclined to accept the 7 day creation week that we find in Gen 1:2-2:3 yet they can still 'read' and point to the author's intent - whether they agree with the author or not.
 
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BobRyan

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They simply detach abiogenesis from the theory of evolution altogether and make it a separate doctrine.

They won't even acknowledge abiogenesis as part of cosmic evolution.

Atheists need it for their story on blind faith evolutionism.

T.E.s like to imagine that they can find a way around it.
 
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BobRyan

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What is interesting to see is how an approach to science like that of Dawkins (an atheist) squares with a more mainstream scientist, Eugenie Scott (also an atheist), as seen in the following 8 minute video:

Are we supposed to be amazed that two atheists would agree on their faith in blind-faith-evolutionism?

Where is the "news" there?? That two atheist differ on how to tolerate religion?

Why would atheists want to object to fellow atheists believing that "an amoeba will sure enough turn into a rabbit over time given a talented enough amoeba and a long and talented enough length of time filled with improbable (mount improbable) stories easy enough to tell but they are not science"??

And why should we be the least bit amazed that both Dawkins and Darwin figured out that the Bible simply does not preach darwinism and is in fact contradictory to it?

And why should be in least bit amazed that NO evolution text book claims that God created the earth and all life in it in a 7 day week.

And why should we be at all surprised that as James Barr states - no serious professors of Hebrew or OT studies in world class universities doubt that the text of Genesis is describing a literal 7 day creation week -since those atheists and agnostics have no "agenda" to bend the Bible to meet what they consider "the true doctrine on origins"??
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Are we supposed to be amazed that two atheists would agree on their faith in blind-faith-evolutionism?
Hello Bob. You'll have to excuse me, but I'm not quite understanding what this refers to particularly. Care to explain so I can get a better understanding of what you're referring to? Then, I can maybe see what the context is of your questions which followed (below) :)

Where is the "news" there??

Why would atheists want to object to fellow atheists believing that "an amoeba will sure enough turn into a rabbit over time given a talented enough amoeba and a long and talented enough length of time filled with improbable (mount improbable) stories easy enough to tell but they are not science"??

And why should we be the least bit amazed that both Dawkins and Darwin figured out that the Bible simply does not preach darwinism and is in fact contradictory to it?

And why should be in least bit amazed that NO evolution text book claims that God created the earth and all life in it in a 7 day week.

And why should we be at all surprised that as James Barr states - no serious professors of Hebrew or OT studies in world class universities doubt that the text of Genesis is describing a literal 7 day creation week -since those atheists and agnostics have no "agenda" to bend the Bible to meet what they consider "the true doctrine on origins"??
 
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Anguspure

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But, for some reason, it gets touted as if it somehow can and does do this very thing.
Perhaps thats because when most people challenge a Creationist with the "fact of evolution" this is exactly what they mean: Godless Biogenesis.
No Creationist, young earth or otherwise, that I have encountered rejects the idea that all things are related (through the Creator) nor do they reject the idea that things change over time.
 
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BobRyan

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Dawkins (an atheist) and Eugenie Scott both agree that blind faith evolutionism should be swallowed 'as observed fact' - no matter what the Bible says to the contrary -- where these two religions collide on the doctrine of origins.

They differ philosphically on what to do about the fact that religion still exists and argue about whether to imagine that these two opposing religions truly oppose each other or whether some religion can be bent to accomodate blind faith evolutionism as the doctrine on origins.

But for those of us on this board - we do not have such games in mind -- we prefer to be Christians.

Many of us prefer to believe that Bible is true and evolutionism is just poor guesswork to the contrary that may be ultra-necessary for atheists and anyone that wants to get a research grant -- but is not a required belief for Christians who accept the Bible.

What I find interesting is that it is not just Bible believing Christians that notice the glaring contradiction between the Bible and blind-faith-evolutionism - it is also well respected scientists and as James Barr points out - pretty much everyone in the world class universities on this subject.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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