• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Christianity and Constantine

grace24

Active Member
Jul 30, 2010
287
17
✟52,210.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I don't know much about Christian history, but i have always encounter this objection many times, and never bother to search the answers for it. Apologetic can be present in many areas, so learning one thing will not be enough. I often heard people object Christianity based on Constantine I and how Christianity rose to providence because he needed a new single coherent religion to keep the masses from becoming disobedient to the rule of the Roman Empire. Had Constantine formed his religion based on Islam, 9/11 would have never happened.

I don't know what happen and why he did that, but i'm having a hard time defending this area in Christian history. I would appreciate if somebody can correct this confusion. Now i know Christianity didn't began from Constantine. It all began after the disciples preached the Gospel and Paul who later converted to a Christian began to have followers.

Can someone explain if this is true or not - concerning what Constantine did, not Paul.
 

Nick T

Lurker
May 31, 2010
584
144
UK
✟23,155.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
I don't know much about Christian history, but i have always encounter this objection many times, and never bother to search the answers for it. Apologetic can be present in many areas, so learning one thing will not be enough. I often heard people object Christianity based on Constantine I and how Christianity rose to providence because he needed a new single coherent religion to keep the masses from becoming disobedient to the rule of the Roman Empire. Had Constantine formed his religion based on Islam, 9/11 would have never happened.

I don't know what happen and why he did that, but i'm having a hard time defending this area in Christian history. I would appreciate if somebody can correct this confusion. Now i know Christianity didn't began from Constantine. It all began after the disciples preached the Gospel and Paul who later converted to a Christian began to have followers.

Can someone explain if this is true or not - concerning what Constantine did, not Paul.

We do not know the real reason for Constantine's conversion and subsequant spreading of Christainity. We know his mother was a devout Christian, perhaps she influanced him? Or perhaps he really did see a cross in the sky? Or we could go with the modern "fashionable" explination that it was all for power.

Quite frankly the reasons for Constantine's conversions are moot. Rather we should discern whether it was beneficial to the christianity by the fruits it bore. In my opinion the conversion benefited christainity far more than it did Constantine!

For a start it ended the persecutions; that cannot we interperated as a bad thing!
Another advantage of Constantine was that he convened the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea. Contrary to what many modern atheists claim the Council did not create a "new christainity". A majority of the Bishops present were appointed before the conversion and as such their beleifs are pre-constantinian. This Council gave us the Nicene Creed, the method for calculating Easter and condemned the heresy of Arianism (which was becoming a grwoing problem). This was one of the greatest moments in Christian history and certainly cannot be constrewed as negative in any way.

A common accusation brought by some modern critics is that the Church sold itself out to Constantine but if we look at the historical evidence we can see this is not true. The orthodox (right-believing) Bishops cared far more about the truth than Constantine's patronage, as is shown by the fact that even when Constantine revleaed himself to favour the Arian position the Bishops still did not relent from their condemnation of the heresy! If Constantine did convert for politics then he got a lot more than he bargined for!

In short, no matter what Constantine's motivations were, his conversion greatly did far more good than harm.
 
Upvote 0

CryptoLutheran

Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman
Sep 13, 2010
3,015
391
Pacific Northwest
✟27,709.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't know much about Christian history, but i have always encounter this objection many times, and never bother to search the answers for it. Apologetic can be present in many areas, so learning one thing will not be enough. I often heard people object Christianity based on Constantine I and how Christianity rose to providence because he needed a new single coherent religion to keep the masses from becoming disobedient to the rule of the Roman Empire. Had Constantine formed his religion based on Islam, 9/11 would have never happened.

I don't know what happen and why he did that, but i'm having a hard time defending this area in Christian history. I would appreciate if somebody can correct this confusion. Now i know Christianity didn't began from Constantine. It all began after the disciples preached the Gospel and Paul who later converted to a Christian began to have followers.

Can someone explain if this is true or not - concerning what Constantine did, not Paul.

Some background:

At the turn of the 4th century Christians were experiencing one of the worst periods of persecution ever under the reign of Diocletian and Galerius. Diocletian had established the Tetrarchy, essentially a rulership of four over the Empire in order to bring some stability back by dividing rule over the Roman Empire between an Eastern and Western Caesar and an Eastern and Western Augustus.

Constantine, whose father Constantius had died in 306 in Britain, and the legions under his command proclaimed Constantine Augustus of the West (the title given to the senior emperor), in response Galerius was furious but rather than risk war elevated Constantine to the rank of Caesar and personally sent him the imperial purple robes.

Under Constantine's command were all the armies of Britain, Gaul and Iberia, a massive military force which he would later mobilize to claim sole leadership of the Western Empire when Maximian led a rebellion against Constantine's authority in 310, and upon his death was taken up by his son Maxentius.

It was during this period, when Constantine led his army in preparation for the Battle at the Milvian Bridge in 312, and according the legend (which exists in several forms) one of Constantine's advisers was a Christian, and supposedly the emperor had a vision or a dream in which he saw the sign of Christ (some say the cross, others say the libarum) and the words "in this sign, conquer" and so Constantine had the symbol painted on all his soldiers' shields at the behest of his Christian adviser. Constantine subsequently won the battle and attributed his victory to the Christian God.

After securing his power in the West, he made an agreement with Licinius in the East and the two shared imperial power. In 313 Constantine was able to convince Licinius to agree to the Edict of Toleration which officially ended the persecution of the Christians which Diocletian and Galerius had begun years earlier; it officially proclaimed Christianity a legal religion under the Empire.

In subsequent years Constantine began to show favor to the Christians, passing laws benefiting them, whether or not this was due to a legitimate conversion experience or simply a political move, it was still a shrewd political move as Christians were a growing segment of the Roman population by then and could be found in nearly every segment of Roman society.

In 320 Licinius began to oppress Christians again in the East, which eventually, may have been a motivator for Constantine's military campaign against him; in 324 Licinius surrendered.

Also during this period a presbyter of the Church in Alexandria was starting a wildfire of a theological controversy. During a homily given by then bishop of Alexandria, Alexander, Arius protested Alexander's statement that the Son was eternal and consubstantial with the Father. A local synod was held and the leadership of the Church in Alexandria excommunicated Arius where he then fled elsewhere where he spread his views far and wide, composing hymns which apparently were quite popular. The controversy was so widespread in the East that it was said that you couldn't go to the market without getting caught up in a heated argument over whether or not the Son was created or eternal.

This occurred at a time fragile in Constantine's newly united Empire, and so the emperor decided, in 325 to have the Church gather together from every part of the empire to hash things out once and for all, and so we are told 318 bishops from all over the empire came together, the largest church council ever at that point in Christian history.

The aged Alexander was represented by his presbyter, Athanasius who emphatically stuck to the idea that the Son was homoousios with the Father (of same substance) while others proposed that the Son was homoiousios (of similar substance...and also the history behind the phrase "not one iota of difference").

Eventually a confession was drawn up, this was the first draft of what became known as the Nicene Creed, and we're told that all but two of the bishops present agreed to it, though some more grudgingly than others.

In response Constantine declared that the council had decided everything and Arius and his supporters were deposed of.

In 330 Constantine moved the capital of the empire from Rome to Byzantium which he rebuilt and became known as Constantine's City (Constantinople).

After Nicea, Arian sympathizers and supporters of Arius held great sway in the imperial court, one, Eusebius of Nicomedia was distantly related to Constantine and was a close friend and confidant. Eusebius was also a friend and supporter of Arius, both of them having been students of the late Lucian of Antioch. This is not the same Eusebius who wrote the Church History (Eusebius of Caesarea), though the two knew each other and both sympathetic to the Arian cause and strong supporters of Constantine. Under the influence of both men they convinced the emperor that Arius' views really didn't contradict what was said at Nicea, and so the emperor reinstated Arius and Arian bishops and deposed some of the Nicene bishops, such as Athanasius who had taken over as bishop of Alexandria after the death of Alexander.

Several other synods were convened in support for the Arian position, and so the issue hardly got settled. On his death bead Constantine finally received Baptism from his friend Eusebius of Nicomedia, in 337.

Following his death a succession of Christological debate continued to war on as imperial politics and Christian theology became closely intertwined, with different factions nearly existing as political parties, various successors of Constantine either adhered to the Nicene view or the Arian view, and whoever happened to be in power at the time got to decide which was the "official" Christianity of Christianity.

Though it wouldn't be until Julian the Apostate, the last of the Constantinian dynasty, himself having been raised in a strict Arian household, began to undo much of what his predecessors had done. He sought to return the empire to its pagan roots, but after him Jovian took the imperial throne. Jovian was a Christian and immediately began to make Christianity the favored religion, after Jovian there was Valentinian I. Then Valentinian II, who was a staunch supporter of the Nicene party and ordered the convention of another general council, this time in Constantinople. Here the decisions of Nicea were reaffirmed, the Creed was redrafted to include mention of the Holy Spirit in response to the Macedonians, and in 382 (a year after the council) Valentinian II proclaimed Nicene Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.

And that's how, in under a hundred years, Christianity went from the religion of martyrs to the religion of emperors.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

grace24

Active Member
Jul 30, 2010
287
17
✟52,210.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
We do not know the real reason for Constantine's conversion and subsequant spreading of Christainity. We know his mother was a devout Christian, perhaps she influanced him? Or perhaps he really did see a cross in the sky? Or we could go with the modern "fashionable" explination that it was all for power.

Most will say for political power in order to disregard Christianity. Do you know how this power affect Christianity? If so, in what way?

A majority of the Bishops present were appointed before the conversion and as such their beleifs are pre-constantinian.

You meant their own conversion? So that means they were either faithful and truthful to Jesus and His teachings etc.

A common accusation brought by some modern critics is that the Church sold itself out to Constantine but if we look at the historical evidence we can see this is not true. The orthodox (right-believing) Bishops cared far more about the truth than Constantine's patronage, as is shown by the fact that even when Constantine revleaed himself to favour the Arian position the Bishops still did not relent from their condemnation of the heresy! If Constantine did convert for politics then he got a lot more than he bargined for!

So Constantine violate the Nicene creed. He was a heretic.

In short, no matter what Constantine's motivations were, his conversion greatly did far more good than harm.

I might be wrong, but if Constantine converted for political power then that wouldn't be good, right? I don't see how his conversion could do good. Can you clarify this more? Thanks.
 
Upvote 0

Nick T

Lurker
May 31, 2010
584
144
UK
✟23,155.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Most will say for political power in order to disregard Christianity. Do you know how this power affect Christianity? If so, in what way?

Constantine's patronage allowed for the Council of Nicea and set the stage to the subsequant Councils. This allowed the orthodox Bishops to clarify what it menat to be christain and combat many abominable heresies. I would say that is a positive effect wouldn't you?

You meant their own conversion? So that means they were either faithful and truthful to Jesus and His teachings etc.

What I'm saying is that the Bishops were not appointed by Constantine but rather came to their positions before his conversion. As such their theology was fully their own.

So Constantine violate the Nicene creed. He was a heretic.

Whether or not he was actually an Arian is debateable but what is clear is that towards the end of his life he was begining to have second thoughts about Nicea and allowed Arius to return from exile. The point I was trying to make was that many bishops condemned him for that descision showing that even though his patronage had brought them increased power the Bishops still considered the truth to be more important.

I might be wrong, but if Constantine converted for political power then that wouldn't be good, right? I don't see how his conversion could do good. Can you clarify this more? Thanks.

Whether or not it was good for Christianity depends on its fruits. Constantine's conversion, whatever their reason, left the Church stronger, more united and more able to combat heresy than ever before.
 
Upvote 0

grace24

Active Member
Jul 30, 2010
287
17
✟52,210.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Constantine's patronage allowed for the Council of Nicea and set the stage to the subsequant Councils. This allowed the orthodox Bishops to clarify what it menat to be christain and combat many abominable heresies. I would say that is a positive effect wouldn't you?

Yes it would. It helps to fight against false teachings.
 
Upvote 0

Resha Caner

Expert Fool
Sep 16, 2010
9,171
1,398
✟163,100.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
@Nick T, I agree with the theme of your response, but have a few nits to pick. We always need to view "good" and "bad" in the light of what is in accordance with God's Will and what is not. The classic example is that Joseph may have thought being sold into slavery in Egypt was something "bad", but God used it for "good."

So, granted that God didn't want Christians to be persecuted, but some good could still come of it.

In that regard, I see God worked through Constantine. But evil forces also tried to twist the outcome. Unless God reveals his purposes to us, we won't know them. We can't discern them by studying the "facts." Therefore, all these conclusions are merely our own.

Still, for whatever my opinion is worth, I would agree that the Council of Nicea was "good", and that other "good" things came from the adoption of Christianity by the Roman authorities - for instance the millions of people who were brought into the Church. But there were also some "bad" results. For example, Rome became a substitute for Israel in the sense that people looked to earthly government for the embodiment of power and the solution of problems. The result was the Holy Roman Empire - for which the famous quip is that it was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire.
 
Upvote 0