Christian who commits suicide...

[Give'imGlory]

And your basis for saying that is......

It is my opinion. When you look at the commandment thou shalt not murder it means taking someones life IMO. Not the other way around. The bible from what I remember does not say if you kill yourself you're going to hell.

 

[ScottBot]

It is my opinion. When you look at the commandment thou shalt not murder it means taking someones life IMO. Not the other way around. The bible from what I remember does not say if you kill yourself you're going to hell.

but if you kill someone else? So, your own life is less valuable to God than someone else's?

 

[Give'imGlory]

but if you kill someone else? So, your own life is less valuable to God than someone else's?

\

Dude murder is not the unpardonable sin. So why would'nt murdering someone send you straight to hell?

Gotta go. Lunch break is over.

 

[ScottBot]

\

Dude murder is not the unpardonable sin. So why would'nt murdering someone send you straight to hell?

Gotta go. Lunch break is over.

I don't know. I suppose God doesn't want us walking around spilling other people's blood while thinking we are covered by His Son's.

[bible]Matthew 19:17[/bible]
[bible]Mark 10:19[/bible]

 

[ChrisinMI]

It is my opinion. When you look at the commandment thou shalt not murder it means taking someones life IMO. Not the other way around. The bible from what I remember does not say if you kill yourself you're going to hell.

although.... our life is NOT our own....we belong to Christ!

 

[Affinity]

You do not know a thing about depression. Most cases of depression are related to chemical inbalances in the brain. It is an illness, not a SIN to be depressed. If you are concerned with the fruit of a Christian, I would check your own. The first fruit is love, my friend. Where is your compassion and Christian charity?

Lisa

Wow! Your kind of rude, aren't you? First off, yes I do know about depression, try reading the post two spaces before yours. And second, I never once said in the section you quoted me on, or in others for that matter, that depression was a sin. I was mostly talking about suicide. And third, that comment you make above about me "checking my own", that's what I would call the fallacy of attacking the person. If your going to debate, it would probably be best if you didn't cross that line.

peace
A

 

[Lisa0315]

Wow! Your kind of rude, aren't you? First off, yes I do know about depression, try reading the post two spaces before yours. And second, I never once said in the section you quoted me on, or in others for that matter, that depression was a sin. I was mostly talking about suicide. And third, that comment you make above about me "checking my own", that's what I would call the fallacy of attacking the person. If your going to debate, it would probably be best if you didn't cross that line.

peace
A

Hey,
I think something is wrong here. I agree with YOU. I was saying this to someone else who said that if you commit suicide, you will go to hell. My post was not directed at you, but in support of you. My husband is bipolar, and they are still trying to figure out what is going on with my son. Believe me, I am not attacking anyone who is depressed. I would be the last person to do that as I have been dealing with loved one who have suffered with this for my whole life.

Edit: Actually, I was quoting the right person. Now, I am really confused. Aren't you contradicting yourself?

Lisa

 

[linssue55]

Where do they go? Heaven or Hell?? Is one sin more damning than another?? Isn't all sin bad regardless of how we 'rank' it in our society?

Once Saved, always saved?

"Once saved, always saved". "ALL" sins were paid for on the cross.

 

[Bill777]

You do not know a thing about depression. Most cases of depression are related to chemical inbalances in the brain. It is an illness, not a SIN to be depressed. If you are concerned with the fruit of a Christian, I would check your own. The first fruit is love, my friend. Where is your compassion and Christian charity?

Lisa

Depression is a sin like being an alcoholic, a smoker, having a drug addiction, being a homosexual etc. I don't believe it's genetic.
There can be hormones or chemical imbalances, that's for sure, but they are caused by a sinful soul.

We can't blame sin on biology (chemical imbalances, problems with the frontal cortex etc.). Psychologists believe that violent murderers and rapists have a problem in the frontal cortex of the brain that causes their violent behaviour, this is all nice and dandy but good luck with using that excuse at judgment day with God. God will not accept a biological predisposition or a medical reason as an excuse for sin. Sin is sickness of the soul, and you can't get to heaven by producing a doctor's certificate documenting your sinful condition (whether a genetic predisposition or a chemical imbalance). Fortunately you can get to heaven by Christ's atonement on the cross if you repent of your sin.

With that said we have to be cautious sometimes condemning depression, because God looks with favour on those that don't have many material posessions or suffer in this world. So if somebody is afflicted by hunger, loss of a relative, persecution, God loves that person and in no way can we say that he will condemn that person if he/she feels a bit down as a result of events like the ones described.

 

[artybloke]

There can be hormones or chemical imbalances, that's for sure, but they are caused by a sinful soul.

You don't have any idea of what you're talking about. And I'd hate to be on the wrong end of your counselling, frankly. Depression is no more sinful than having an ingrown toenail.

 

[Lisa0315]

Depression is a sin like being an alcoholic, a smoker, having a drug addiction, being a homosexual etc. I don't believe it's genetic.
There can be hormones or chemical imbalances, that's for sure, but they are caused by a sinful soul.

We can't blame sin on biology (chemical imbalances, problems with the frontal cortex etc.). Psychologists believe that violent murderers and rapists have a problem in the frontal cortex of the brain that causes their violent behaviour, this is all nice and dandy but good luck with using that excuse at judgment day with God. God will not accept a biological predisposition or a medical reason as an excuse for sin. Sin is sickness of the soul, and you can't get to heaven by producing a doctor's certificate documenting your sinful condition (whether a genetic predisposition or a chemical imbalance). Fortunately you can get to heaven by Christ's atonement on the cross if you repent of your sin.

With that said we have to be cautious sometimes condemning depression, because God looks with favour on those that don't have many material posessions or suffer in this world. So if somebody is afflicted by hunger, loss of a relative, persecution, God loves that person and in no way can we say that he will condemn that person if he/she feels a bit down as a result of events like the ones described.

So, depression that I suffered after my first child was caused by sin???? No, it was caused by chemical imbalances. Since I was not a Christian at the time and there was no repentance, how do you account for my "miraculous" recovery? Err..Not sin, not repentance of sin, but the chemicals caused by pregnancy and the birth of my child regulated themselves after about six months.

Depression can lead to sinful behavior, but in of itself, depression is not a sin. Depression can and often will lead to salvation as well, but depression is not salvation either. Your logic is faulty. One does not equal the other.

 

[cygnusx1]

Where do they go? Heaven or Hell?? Is one sin more damning than another?? Isn't all sin bad regardless of how we 'rank' it in our society?

Once Saved, always saved?

most suicide cases are undertaken by people "out of their mind" they just are not thinking right , God doesn't condemn the mentally ill!

 

[Bill777]

So, depression that I suffered after my first child was caused by sin???? No, it was caused by chemical imbalances. Since I was not a Christian at the time and there was no repentance, how do you account for my "miraculous" recovery? Err..Not sin, not repentance of sin, but the chemicals caused by pregnancy and the birth of my child regulated themselves after about six months.

Depression can lead to sinful behavior, but in of itself, depression is not a sin. Depression can and often will lead to salvation as well, but depression is not salvation either. Your logic is faulty. One does not equal the other.

Yeah, right. That's like saying that any man that looks at Cindy Crawford and is turned on by her sexy body is not sinning. After all this is caused by a man's hormones. So we can safely say according to your logic that sexual lust is not a sin. Fact is both depression and sexual desire outside marriage are sins.

Now I would have to agree that depression like any other sin may lead to salvation, but this can only happen when the sinner acknowledges depression as a sin and repents.. I would say that sexual lust can also lead to salvation, the same way depression can, it only leads to salvation if a man repents. So my advice to anybody suffering from lust or depression is the same, repent and be saved. Both depression and sexual lust are sins. Hormones, chemical imbalances etc. they all can lead to sin whether it'd be depression or sexual desire. And anybody that repents from his/her sins and trusts Jesus for the forgiveness of sins shall be saved.

 

[Bill777]

most suicide cases are undertaken by people "out of their mind" they just are not thinking right , God doesn't condemn the mentally ill!

Mental illness is sin by definition. As a rule of thumb, only if you don't have the mind of Christ you can be mentally ill. Although there is the odd exception like if you suffer brain damage as a result of an accident or there may be the odd disease that damages brain cells (Alzheimers may be one of them although I'm not 100% sure).

 

[lan]

That was on justification, not salvation. John Paul II promulgated the catechism that specifically says those who die in a state of unrepented mortal sin go to Hell.

So, the Pope can have the say so on who goes to heaven, and who does not?

The Pope can say what sin will condem a man and what sin will not?

 

[ieatlamb]

Ok. How about if God tells us to commit suicide?

 

[Diane_Windsor]

If they are a Christian then they go to Heaven, but who would want to show up in God's Throne Room early and unannounced? God's grace covers all sin

DIANE

 

[mnmcandiez]

Heaven
God forgives sin

God gave Samson the strength to kill himself


"27 Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. 28 Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." 29 Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, 30 Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived."
- Judges 16: 27-30

 

[Lisa0315]

Yeah, right. That's like saying that any man that looks at Cindy Crawford and is turned on by her sexy body is not sinning. After all this is caused by a man's hormones. So we can safely say according to your logic that sexual lust is not a sin. Fact is both depression and sexual desire outside marriage are sins.

Now I would have to agree that depression like any other sin may lead to salvation, but this can only happen when the sinner acknowledges depression as a sin and repents.. I would say that sexual lust can also lead to salvation, the same way depression can, it only leads to salvation if a man repents. So my advice to anybody suffering from lust or depression is the same, repent and be saved. Both depression and sexual lust are sins. Hormones, chemical imbalances etc. they all can lead to sin whether it'd be depression or sexual desire. And anybody that repents from his/her sins and trusts Jesus for the forgiveness of sins shall be saved.

There is nothing wrong with natural sexual desire. We were created with these desires and our bodies are naturally inclined towards the opposite sex. It is only when that desire is outside of God's ordained outlet of marriage that it becomes a sin. A man may look at a woman and feel attraction. No sin there, but when he takes this attraction a step further in his mind and imagines a sexual encounter...at this point, does it become sin.

Depression on the other hand is not caused by a mishandling of the natural hormones and chemicals in the brain as in lust, but hormones go out of whack for various reasons not caused by the individual IN MOST CASES. There are SOME cases of depression brought on by the abuse of alcohol or drugs, and in those cases, you would be right. However, depression such as I described caused by pregnancy and birth are NOT caused by sin. Depression caused by a lack of seratonin in the body is NOT sin.

So from this we can see: 1) Natural and normal body chemicals are not sin in of themselves. 2) What we do with these chemical reactions in our body may be sin.

In your post, you seem to think that depression in of itself is sin, and you seem to relate all sexual desire to lust. The fact is both depression and lust are caused by chemicals in the brain. However, lust is caused by a controllable action in conjunction with these natural chemicals. Depression does not involve a thought, action, or desire to be depressed. It just is.

 

[cygnusx1]

Mental illness is sin by definition. As a rule of thumb, only if you don't have the mind of Christ you can be mentally ill. Although there is the odd exception like if you suffer brain damage as a result of an accident or there may be the odd disease that damages brain cells (Alzheimers may be one of them although I'm not 100% sure).

Congratulations Bill777 on the worst post I have seen on CF ever!