Christian who commits suicide...

[Affinity]

There's only one unforgivable sin and it isn't suicide to the best of my knowledge. And I do believe in OSAS. Any number of horrible and agonizing things can cause someone to want to take their life. Even Christians.

The key word there would be "want". You don't see any examples of believers in the New Testament committing suicide, no matter how horrible and agonizing things got.

 

[Affinity]

A Christian who commits suicide is still a Christian and Christians go to heaven.

A Christian who commits suicide, hmmm..... that just sounds so contradictory, like an anarchist who prays for peace and order.

 

[cwolf20]

actually, I know an anarchist Christian. He does want peace, but he wants his kind of order. Nevertheless he is saved by Jesus. Weird individual. But I'll be glad to see him in heaven nevertheless

A Christian who commits suicide, hmmm..... that just sounds so contradictory, like an anarchist who prays for peace and order.

 

[Affinity]

Sorry Jim, I just don't buy it. Have you ever suffered from depression? Are you a Christian? To suppose that they were never a Christian in the first place puts you in a position of assuming what's in their heart. Apostasy is merely a human decision to reject God. It is the only decision we make in regards to spiritual matters.

You can't judge a person by the action of Suicide. Only God can. As Christians, we are simultaneously Saint and Sinner. Everyday we fall short of God's glory by our own merits. But thanks be to Christ for he died for those sins and forgives you when you confess the sin and ask for his forgiveness. true the person who kills himself can not repent here, but they will face judgement just the same as you and I and how do we know that God will not allow hime to ask forgiveness there.

Don't make assumptions about people and salvation. It is a dangerous practice and can lead to some theologically dangerous flaws.

Then why did Christ say, "You will know a tree by it's fruits"?

As for suicide, it seems to me that many suicides, including the one you described about your friend, have more to do with the guilt of sin, and not simply depression alone. Look at the example of Judas. Why did he commit suicide? I may be speculating, but it seems that a good guess would be from the guilt of helping to condemn the one who he afterfward determined to be an innecent man. In any case, when such a heavy guilt is present that it drives a person to end their life, one has to wonder whether the person had truly recieved the forgiveness of Christ. However, I'm not saying that this is 100%. There could be exceptions.

 

[justinstout]

Where do they go? Heaven or Hell?? Is one sin more damning than another?? Isn't all sin bad regardless of how we 'rank' it in our society?

Once Saved, always saved?

Committing sin is committing sin.

Suicide is no different than going over the speed limit, in God's eyes.
Yes, one sin may affect your present life differently than others, but they do not affect your eternity differently. Praise God, suicide is not bigger than God's grace.

If every sin that we ever commit must be confessed to God before we can receive forgivness, then we're all going to Hell. And if that's the case, then we should just kill everyone immediately when they get born-again. We may go to Hell for murder, but hey, at least someone will get to heaven.


God doesn't grade on a curve.

 

[justinstout]

A Christian who commits suicide, hmmm..... that just sounds so contradictory, like an anarchist who prays for peace and order.

Yes, just like a Christian that lies.. a Christian that gossips... a Christian that has ungodly anger... a Christian who steals... it all sounds contradictory. But praise God for His unconditional love and grace. Your sins are no better than anyone else's sins. God doesn't grade on a curve. To Him, sin is sin. You either need to depend upon your own actions to get to heaven, or you need to depend on Jesus Christ and His finished work.

I hate to tell everyone this.. but we're all guilty of breaking all of the commandments at some time or another.


James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


.

 

[Affinity]

Yes, just like a Christian that lies.. a Christian that gossips... a Christian that has ungodly anger... a Christian who steals... it all sounds contradictory. But praise God for His unconditional love and grace. Your sins are no better than anyone else's sins. God doesn't grade on a curve. To Him, sin is sin. You either need to depend upon your own actions to get to heaven, or you need to depend on Jesus Christ and His finished work.

I hate to tell everyone this.. but we're all guilty of breaking all of the commandments at some time or another.


James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


.

You seem to be missing my piont. I'm not saying that a believer who commits suicide would go to hell. If a born-again believer actually mustered the courage to end there own lives, then they would never the less probably go to heaven (I don't know I'm not God). What I was saying was that the act of commiting suicide is so extreme (to us, not to God) and requires such resolve that it would be an indication that the person may have never been saved in the first place.

 

[Affinity]

actually, I know an anarchist Christian. He does want peace, but he wants his kind of order. Nevertheless he is saved by Jesus. Weird individual. But I'll be glad to see him in heaven nevertheless

Then he's not an anarchist in the truest sense of the word.

 

[justinstout]

You seem to be missing my piont. I'm not saying that a believer who commits suicide would go to hell. If a born-again believer actually mustered the courage to end there own lives, then they would never the less probably go to heaven (I don't know I'm not God). What I was saying was that the act of commiting suicide is so extreme (to us, not to God) and requires such resolve that it would be an indication that the person may have never been saved in the first place.

Affinity, I understand where you're coming from.. and I guess it's a possibility, but definitely not always the case. It's really not our place to judge though. We know it's not always the case, so it really doesn't matter. Believers do stumble. Condemnation can lead to fear.. fear can lead to depression.. and depression can lead to suicide. It makes sense to me that a true believer can actually get to this position. That's why staying in fellowship with God and meditating on His Word is so important.

love you brother,
Justin

 

[artybloke]

I'm sorry, but having read this thread, I can say that have read the most atrocious rot I've ever read. Depression that leads to suicide or attempted suicide is an illness, it is not a sin. Pessimism might well be a sin; but nobody commits suicide because of pessimism (unless they're living in a Jean-Paul Sartre novel, that is.)

I've known people who suffer from depression, from bi-polar disorders and other mental illnesses. I've had to hide the knives from someone to stop her harming herself. People who suffer from severe mental illness are often living in a world where they actually think it is better for everybody that they kill themselves. They are not thinking logically, or selfishly, or sinfully; they are thinking in an illogical and sick way because they are ill.

You should all try living with depression one day, and see if you come out of it thinking it's sinful. It's no more sinful than cancer, or TB, or any number of physical ailments. You should all go and have an injection of compassion.

 

[ScottBot]

Committing sin is committing sin.

Suicide is no different than going over the speed limit, in God's eyes.
Yes, one sin may affect your present life differently than others, but they do not affect your eternity differently. Praise God, suicide is not bigger than God's grace.

If every sin that we ever commit must be confessed to God before we can receive forgivness, then we're all going to Hell. And if that's the case, then we should just kill everyone immediately when they get born-again. We may go to Hell for murder, but hey, at least someone will get to heaven.


God doesn't grade on a curve.

really, then square what you are saying against this passage:

[bible]1 John 5:17[/bible]

 

[Affinity]

Condemnation can lead to fear.. fear can lead to depression.. and depression can lead to suicide. It makes sense to me that a true believer can actually get to this position. That's why staying in fellowship with God and meditating on His Word is so important.

love you brother,
Justin

And what did Paul say is the case for believers? - "But now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ."

 

[Affinity]

I'm sorry, but having read this thread, I can say that have read the most atrocious rot I've ever read. Depression that leads to suicide or attempted suicide is an illness, it is not a sin. Pessimism might well be a sin; but nobody commits suicide because of pessimism (unless they're living in a Jean-Paul Sartre novel, that is.)

I've known people who suffer from depression, from bi-polar disorders and other mental illnesses. I've had to hide the knives from someone to stop her harming herself. People who suffer from severe mental illness are often living in a world where they actually think it is better for everybody that they kill themselves. They are not thinking logically, or selfishly, or sinfully; they are thinking in an illogical and sick way because they are ill.

You should all try living with depression one day, and see if you come out of it thinking it's sinful. It's no more sinful than cancer, or TB, or any number of physical ailments. You should all go and have an injection of compassion.

As a matter of fact, I've been suffering from depression since I was sixteen, right about the time I inherited it from my Mom's side of the family. Over half of my blood relatives on my Mom's side have depression, and take some kind of medication. And yes, it is an illness, caused, in the case of depression, by a general lack of sertitonin being produced by the brain. However, depression is certainly no excuse for committing suicide. Now certainly, there were times in my depression that I contemplated suicide as a selfish means to end all my troubles and get back at the people I was angry at for various reasons (mostly brought on by the depression), but I am very willing to admit that my motivation for thinking those thoughts were very much grounded in self pity and guilt, regardless of whether or not I could help it.

Interestingly enough, this is kind of how Paul describes sin in general in the book of Romans, as sort of an "illness" that is out of our means of controlling. "It is not me, but sin that worketh in me". Never-the-less, our own inability to control sin or depression is no excuse for giving up and ending it all, but on the contrary, one more reason for us to put our faith and trust in Jesus. Only He can free us from the bondage of sin and depression. I know He did me.

 

[artybloke]

As a matter of fact, I've been suffering from depression since I was sixteen, right about the time I inherited it from my Mom's side of the family. Over half of my blood relatives on my Mom's side have depression, and take some kind of medication. And yes, it is an illness, caused, in the case of depression, by a general lack of sertitonin being produced by the brain. However, depression is certainly no excuse for committing suicide. Now certainly, there were times in my depression that I contemplated suicide as a selfish means to end all my troubles and get back at the people I was angry at for various reasons (mostly brought on by the depression), but I am very willing to admit that my motivation for thinking those thoughts were very much grounded in self pity and guilt, regardless of whether or not I could help it.

Interestingly enough, this is kind of how Paul describes sin in general in the book of Romans, as sort of an "illness" that is out of our means of controlling. "It is not me, but sin that worketh in me". Never-the-less, our own inability to control sin or depression is no excuse for giving up and ending it all, but on the contrary, one more reason for us to put our faith and trust in Jesus. Only He can free us from the bondage of sin and depression. I know He did me.

I'm sorry but I still don't think it's a sin, especially for those who are under the delusion (and it is a delusion) that their deaths will make things easier for everyone. People can't sin if they're not responsible for their actions.

 

[Lisa0315]

Then why did Christ say, "You will know a tree by it's fruits"?

As for suicide, it seems to me that many suicides, including the one you described about your friend, have more to do with the guilt of sin, and not simply depression alone. Look at the example of Judas. Why did he commit suicide? I may be speculating, but it seems that a good guess would be from the guilt of helping to condemn the one who he afterfward determined to be an innecent man. In any case, when such a heavy guilt is present that it drives a person to end their life, one has to wonder whether the person had truly recieved the forgiveness of Christ. However, I'm not saying that this is 100%. There could be exceptions.

You do not know a thing about depression. Most cases of depression are related to chemical inbalances in the brain. It is an illness, not a SIN to be depressed. If you are concerned with the fruit of a Christian, I would check your own. The first fruit is love, my friend. Where is your compassion and Christian charity?

Lisa

 

[ChrisinMI]

Bottom Line folks.... If we claim to be Christian we are 'FORGIVEN' sins of past, present and future! Christ throws them as far as the East is from the West. We are human and will never be perfect. There is only ONE road to heaven and if that person is on that road regardless of his deeds (Good or bad) he/she IS going to Heaven.

 

[Give'imGlory]

The real question is this....

Does the bible state anywhere that suicide is a sin and you will go to hell?

 

[ScottBot]

The real question is this....

Does the bible state anywhere that suicide is a sin and you will go to hell?

Ya, the 5th commandment. Thou shalt not murder. Isn't that what suicide is, murdering yourself?

[bible]exodus 20:13[/bible]

 

[Give'imGlory]

Ya, the 5th commandment. Thou shalt not murder. Isn't that what suicide is, murdering yourself?

Nope sorry. Killing yourself is not murder.

 

[ScottBot]

Nope sorry. Killing yourself is not murder.

And your basis for saying that is......

If I kill someone else (depending on intent), that's murder.
If someone else kills me (again, dependent on intent) that's murder.

But if you take your own life, knowing full well that its wrong, then how can it not be considered a form of murder in which you play both the aggressor and the victim.