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Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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Lazarus Short

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Once I was flying from the west coast to Virginia, the man in the seat next to me was reading the Bible. I said, "Good book. I like how it ends." He smiled and nodded. He was not in uniform but I said "You are a military aviator." He looked at me strangely and said "Do I have a sign on my forehead or something." I said "No, the glasses and haircut." His glasses were issue aviator glasses. I know I had the same glasses. And he had the high and tight military haircut.
So what? I have read the end of the book.
I can't find one single verse which states or suggests there is opportunity for repentance and salvation after death. In fact, just the opposite.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:4-5
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
...
Revelation 21:7-8
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​
Vs. 4, no more death, all things new. but in vs. 8 eight groups are people are thrown into the LOF and it is still the second death.
Revelation 22:10-11
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​
Instead of everybody being saved the unjust and the filthy are told to stay as they are.
Revelation 22:15-16
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.​
And there are still dogs, sorcerers, harlot mongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars outside New Jerusalem.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​
And there are some being threatened with being taken out of the book of life.
All those verses you are going to use to counter these. Why didn't John know about those verses.

John was (IIRC) instructed to NOT write down some things...but to guess would be to speculate. What I do know is that the last chapters of the Revelation are NOT the end of the story. For that, we need to go to First Corinthians 15, where the Son hands the Kingdom over to the Father, who then becomes All in all.
 
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Hmm

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Do you guys think your UR position is the only one that argues with ECT on the meaning and application of aion/aionion/aionios? Do you think your UR position is the only one concerned about those who die without Christ or who have never officially heard about Jesus?

What is the relevance of these questions? Universalism is not about virtue signalling, it's a statement about Scriptural truth, whether one agrees with it or not.
 
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What I do know is that the last chapters of the Revelation are NOT the end of the story. For that, we need to go to First Corinthians 15, where the Son hands the Kingdom over to the Father, who then becomes All in all

That's a great point.
 
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ozso

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Once I was flying from the west coast to Virginia, the man in the seat next to me was reading the Bible. I said, "Good book. I like how it ends." He smiled and nodded. He was not in uniform but I said "You are a military aviator." He looked at me strangely and said "Do I have a sign on my forehead or something." I said "No, the glasses and haircut." His glasses were issue aviator glasses.

Randolph Engineering or American Optical? I have both myself.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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These are a lot of words that do not answer my question. I thought my question was simple enough. Is there post-mortem corrective punishment?

Was that the question? I do beg your pardon.

I believe so:

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. (Lk 12:47)

And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. (Acts 5:41)
 
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No, but applying them to texts is.

Er, if there's an apparent contradiction between God's sworn oath and another text, what would be the general rule of thumb there? Might I suggest to strive to harmonise the servient with the dominant.

It's based on nothing more than your own assumption being forced upon the text.

My assumption that God is absolute? Very droll.

Uh huh. A strawman coupled with an ad hominem. I guess whatever we want the text to mean that's what it will mean, analysis is beyond the average person right?

Sadly, reason so often seems to elude the intellectual. I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

The beauty is in the simplicity, these are the eternal truths. Just let God be true. If the boss wants to pay the late workers the same even though you've toiled the livelong day, what's it to you?
 
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Saint Steven

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Do you think your UR position is the only one concerned about those who die without Christ or who have never officially heard about Jesus?
Yes, I do.
That's the odd thing. Those who hold to ECT don't really believe in it. (at least based on their behavior)

They only accept it because the whole mess is a package deal. If you want salvation (according to them) then a forever burning hell is part and parcel.

They didn't ask for it. Some are fighting tooth and claw to keep it, but when asked, they can't tell you why they love it so much. (because they don't)
 
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Saint Steven

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It's been proven that the Hell No! folks do not read posts and do not read the Bible. :mad:
I only read the headlines. Who has time to read anymore? -- Hello?
The book said Holy Bible on the outside. That's all I had time for. Based on what I read, it seemed important somehow.
 
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Those who hold to ECT don't really believe in it. (at least based on their behavior)

I suspect that's right. If you really believed in ECT and cared about people you would devote your life to trying to save them. The fact that hardly anyone does this is because either they don't believe it (the vast majority ) or don't care (the small minority)
 
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Saint Steven

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I learnt it in French I think.
When I was in Paris, I got an eye-full looking at that big tower. Not sure what they call it. I recommend checking it out though. It's hard to miss.
 
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When I was in Paris, I got an eye-full looking at that big tower. Not sure what they call it. I recommend checking it out though. It's hard to miss.

The Eiffel Tower? Yes, it's huge. I think it was the tallest man-made structure in the world until the Empire State Building.
 
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Saint Steven

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I suspect that's right. If you really believed in ECT and cared about people you would devote your life to trying to save them. The fact that hardly anyone does this is because either they don't believe it (the vast majority ) or don't care (the small minority)
I'm not sure what will take place on that day, but I imagine the majority mentioned above will be shocked to find out they are headed for the hot tub instead of straight to heaven. They may need more work than the pagans they snub.
 
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ozso

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I only read the headlines. Who has time to read anymore? -- Hello?
The book said Holy Bible on the outside. That's all I had time for. Based on what I read, it seemed important somehow.

The Hell Yes folks read the entire Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek on a weekly basis.
 
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Saint Steven

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I'm not sure what will take place on that day, but I imagine the majority mentioned above will be shocked to find out they are headed for the hot tub instead of straight to heaven. They may need more work than the pagans they snub.
Matthew 21:31 NIV
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
 
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Saint Steven

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The Hell Yes folks read the entire Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek on a weekly basis.
Wow. And I thought they didn't understand what hell really is. I was so wrong. - lol
 
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ozso

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Wow. And I thought they didn't understand what hell really is. I was so wrong. - lol

That nonsense stopped back in the 5th century. Before then way too many had it all wrong.
 
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