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Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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zippy2006

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What is it about universal redemption that annoys so many Christians?

Anti-intellectualism. Pretending that because you like something, therefore it is true. We currently live in a world in which no one cares about what is true. They only care about what they want to be true. This OP is a case in point.

Shouldn’t we be happy that God’s love and mercy are wider, higher, deeper, and broader than we could ever imagine?

"Shouldn't we be happy that Universalism is true?"

Well, the real question is whether it is true. This is the fallacy of begging the question.

We all sin at times so shouldn't we welcome the thought that God is not going to annihilate or eternally torment us if we don't “accept,” “trust,” “repent,” “believe,” well enough to appropriate the grace of God?

I think all criminals would agree that it would be great if we weren't held responsible for crimes. But again, wishing doesn't make it so. It would be great if my printer was made of chocolate, but I wouldn't recommend bending over and taking a bite.

Here are some of the reasons that have been expressed in the threads:

Citing a few counterarguments that are bad doesn't help one's position. It is in the same vein as a strawman where one delusionally builds oneself up by examining bad arguments. I could go on Reddit and find some terrible arguments against Communism, but that doesn't mean Communism is true.

I'd be more interested in hearing what your gut, visceral reaction is, whether for or against, when you hear the words "Christian Universalism". For me, it's basically relief that God is a loving God and not a monster after all.

Again, using your visceral gut to decide what is true is the fallacy of argumentum ad passiones, and that fallacy is the long and short of this OP.

This OP is a case study in delusional thinking. It does not ask the question, "Is Universalism true?" Instead it exclusively focuses on the question, "Wouldn't it be nice?" Caring about truth is essential if one is not to fall into delusional thinking.
 
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Hmm

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This is my last response to you unless you get on topic.

This OP is a case study in delusional thinking. It does not ask the question, "Is Universalism true?"

If you want to ask that question I suggest you create a thread for it.

Instead it exclusively focuses on the question, "Wouldn't it be nice?"

That question does not appear in the OP. The question in the OP is What is your gut reaction when you hear the words "Christian Universalism"?

Please stick to the topic of the thread.
 
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zippy2006

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This is my last response to you unless you get OT.

No idea what that means. Is it a new acronym?

The question in the OP is What is your gut reaction when you hear the words "Christian Universalism"?

This would be my gut reaction:

Anti-intellectualism. Pretending that because you like something, therefore it is true. We currently live in a world in which no one cares about what is true. They only care about what they want to be true. This OP is a case in point.
 
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Hmm

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[QUOTE="zippy2006, post: 76270285, member: 342410"
This would be my gut reaction:

Anti-intellectualism. Pretending that because you like something, therefore it is true. We currently live in a world in which no one cares about what is true. They only care about what they want to be true. This OP is a case in point.
[/QUOTE]

That's great. Thanks your answer.
 
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BNR32FAN

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What I quoted was the Lord's explanation of "who can be saved?" His answer was that God is powerful enough to save people. Do you think that God can save rich people but cannot save other kinds of people?

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:23–26


I said that the age to come is commonly called eternity. In other words:

The age to come = Eternity = infinity = millions and millions of years.

Hopefully, this is clear enough.

eternity or infinity is never ending. It’s infinitely longer than millions & millions of years.
 
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BNR32FAN

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What I quoted was the Lord's explanation of "who can be saved?" His answer was that God is powerful enough to save people. Do you think that God can save rich people but cannot save other kinds of people?

God can’t contradict Himself so when He says that some will never be forgiven that absolutely means that they cannot be saved otherwise they will be forgiven and Jesus had made a false statement.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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God can’t contradict Himself so when He says that some will never be forgiven that absolutely means that they cannot be saved otherwise they will be forgiven and Jesus had made a false statement.
How does that work in practice if they want to convert to Christianity?
 
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Andrewn

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eternity or infinity is never ending. It’s infinitely longer than millions & millions of years.
We agree about this. But let me ask you, and everyone here, when does the age to come / eternity start?
 
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Der Alte

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We agree about this. But let me ask you, and everyone here, when does the age to come / eternity start?
Matthew 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luke 17:24
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.​
 
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BNR32FAN

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We agree about this. But let me ask you, and everyone here, when does the age to come / eternity start?

In that context it’s referring to the world. In this world or the world to come.
 
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BNR32FAN

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How does that work in practice if they want to convert to Christianity?

I believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is never coming to Christ. So if they wanted to convert they can and wouldn’t have committed the unforgivable sin.
 
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Strong in Him

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Another thoughtful post. I have always have to make a really strong cup of tea before I can reply to your posts!

Sorry.
(On the other hand, tea is never a bad thing.)

By the same logic, you could ask why is there any sense if urgency to preach to people who are not at the point of death because they can always repent then.

I'm sure we'd both agree that sharing the Good News is important not because people need to reserve a place in heaven but so that they can enjoy a loving relationship with God here and now and help to do His work in this world.

Some people might not care about God in this world.
I know of people who have said, "Christians have no fun, are not allowed to dance/go to the pub/wear make up etc and go to an ancient building every week to talk to someone they can't see - no thanks." They aren't bothered about doing God's will or finding out how to serve him. Are you saying that, after they die and can see God, they will suddenly say "I believe now" and escape spending eternity without God, even though they didn't care about that, or him, while they were alive?

Being able to repent on your deathbed or after death does not change that.

Deathbed repentance - yes.
Repentance after death, no; I don't believe Scripture supports that.
Hebrews 9:27 says that man dies once and THEN we face judgement.
When a tower fell and killed a number of people, Jesus said "unless you repent, you too will all perish", Luke 13:5 - not "well if you don't want to repent you may do so after death."

If you have rejected God and his values throughout this life, wouldn't the sheer amount of delusion and pride mean that it would be even painful in "hell" and who would want to go through that?

I don't get what you mean, sorry.

Is there any real difference, if God sends people to ECT, whether does so because He created them with this express purpose or because they failed to live up to the mark in someway before they died.

I don't believe that God sends people to hell nor that he created people in his own image with the intention that they would never know him and go to hell.
I believe he constantly reaches out to people; prompts them to do things or arranges things to happen, that they might dismiss as "fate" or "co-incidence", so that they might think about him and/or the Gospel.
Would a loving, earthly father allow his wife to get pregnant knowing that he planned to reject and disown the child? If not, then why would God, who is perfect, Matthew 5:48 and who is love, 1 John 4:8?

Does everyone really get a chance to know God? What about people who go to church to learn about Him and never go back because they are told that God sends unbaptised babies to hell? The first church I ever attended told me this. Rejecting a god like this is not the same thing as rejecting God.

I completely agree.
That's why it's for God to judge and not us. God knows whether someone has truly heard the Gospel and about his love but made a conscious decision that they don't want to know, (I can't see why anyone would want to reject his awesome love once they had experienced it for themselves, but still); or whether they said "I'm not going to church because the vicar said ...... and God's people are unfriendly and judgemental."
If someone has chosen the former, and refuses to repent and call to God for help, it is too late after death. If someone has said the latter, God is merciful and will, I believe, judge their hearts and intentions - not to mention having a stern word for those who tried to keep people away from him.

I think where we disagree is that you would think hell can exist independently of God whereas I think nothing can exist outside of Him. I therefore do not believe in an eternal hell.

Actually, I have a theory about hell.
My belief, and it may or may not be orthodox, is that when we die we all meet God and then all continue to exist.
Those who are Christians, who have accepted Jesus and lived in and for him, have eternal life and their relationship with God will continue after death. When we finally meet him, the meeting will be one of joyful recognition, eternal reunion and pure worship.
Those who, deliberately and continuously, rejected God when they were on earth will also meet him. They will then know, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is real, that everything they heard about forgiveness, and the Gospel, was true and that it is too late for them to do anything about it. They will have to live for eternity with all the knowledge and shame of their unforgiven sin. God is everywhere, so it may be that they don't go to a separate place to live in their sin - their "hell" will be living with, or near, the One whom they rejected. Like "cringing in shame" or "going hot with embarrassment", but a million times worse, and for eternity.

Not to repeat the many verses that have been posted in this and the other universalist threads about God being all in all and about Him restoring all people and all of His creation universalist, isn't the Harrowing of Hell not some evidence?

I don't usually read threads on universalism.
In fact, I only found out what universalism was some years ago when a Mod of these forums contacted me to say that they felt my post promoted universalism, which wasn't allowed.
I replied that I must have worded my post badly because, having looked up "Universalism", I didn't believe it.

I'm not too sure what you mean by the "Harrowing of hell".

Enjoy your tea - lol.
 
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Der Alte

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* * * I therefore do not believe in an eternal hell.
Not to repeat the many verses that have been posted in this and the other universalist threads about God being all in all and about Him restoring all people and all of His creation universalist, isn't the Harrowing of Hell not some evidence?
I too did not know what this referred to so I had to look it up. It apparently refers to the descent of Jesus into "hell." This might refer to these passages.
Acts of the apostles 2:25-27
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts of the apostles 2:31
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Psalms 16:10
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.​
 
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Clare73

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We agree about this. But let me ask you, and everyone here, when does the age to come / eternity start?
Immediately after the event of the Resurrection--Rapture---Second Coming--Final Judgment at the Last Day, the end of time (John 6:39-40, John 6:44, John 6:54;
1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 1:10, Philippians 2:16, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6).
 
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Hmm

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Some people might not care about God in this world.
I know of people who have said, "Christians have no fun, are not allowed to dance/go to the pub/wear make up etc and go to an ancient building every week to talk to someone they can't see - no thanks." They aren't bothered about doing God's will or finding out how to serve him. Are you saying that, after they die and can see God, they will suddenly say "I believe now" and escape spending eternity without God, even though they didn't care about that, or him, while they were alive?
I don't think that they will suddenly believe any more than you do. It may take an age - the Greek word "aionios" in "aionios kolasis" that Jesus said which is usually translated as "eternal punishment" but which actually means something like "age related remedial punishment". Aionios is where our word eon comes from.
You say these people didn't care about God when they were alive but is that true? Perhaps they just didn't care much for the God who was presented to them at church, who told them that they weren't supposed to have fun, dance, sing and go to the pub etc.

Just going to put the kettle on.

I don't get what you mean, sorry.
Yes, that was pretty unintelligible sorry. What I meant was that God justice is not separate from his mercy and all are part of his love: God is love. Any punishment he gives us will be corrective in nature and given out of love as something that we need to help us develop. This is just the same as any punishment metred out by a parent to their child. Whatever the child has or hasn't done, they will never inflict punishment simply for the sake of it, and never a punishment that will last an eternity.
God's love is as a fire and how we experience that love will depend on us. If we have stubbornly refused to respond to God in the reflections of Him that we have encountered in this world in love, goodness, kindness or even personal encounter or if we think that we don't need Him as the prodigal son felt, then the fire of His love will be experienced as painful as it purifies us and burns away all our selfishness and illusions, but if we have already embraced God it will be experienced as warmth.

I don't believe that God sends people to hell nor that he created people in his own image with the intention that they would never know him and go to hell.
I believe he constantly reaches out to people; prompts them to do things or arranges things to happen, that they might dismiss as "fate" or "co-incidence", so that they might think about him and/or the Gospel.
Would a loving, earthly father allow his wife to get pregnant knowing that he planned to reject and disown the child? If not, then why would God, who is perfect, Matthew 5:48 and who is love, 1 John 4:8?
I agree. I just don't agree that God stops reaching out to us at the moment of our death. That sounds very a arbitrary cut off point to me and IMO scripture does not say that.

I completely agree.
That's why it's for God to judge and not us. God knows whether someone has truly heard the Gospel and about his love but made a conscious decision that they don't want to know, (I can't see why anyone would want to reject his awesome love once they had experienced it for themselves, but still); or whether they said "I'm not going to church because the vicar said ...... and God's people are unfriendly and judgemental."
If someone has chosen the former, and refuses to repent and call to God for help, it is too late after death. If someone has said the latter, God is merciful and will, I believe, judge their hearts and intentions - not to mention having a stern word for those who tried to keep people away from him.
I also "can't see why anyone would want to reject his awesome love once they had experienced it for themselves." Where you added "but still" the universalist would add something like "but if they didn't have this experience in this life, God will break through to them in the next life and reveal to them in the way that they need who He is."

Actually, I have a theory about hell.
My belief, and it may or may not be orthodox, is that when we die we all meet God and then all continue to exist.
Those who are Christians, who have accepted Jesus and lived in and for him, have eternal life and their relationship with God will continue after death. When we finally meet him, the meeting will be one of joyful recognition, eternal reunion and pure worship.
Those who, deliberately and continuously, rejected God when they were on earth will also meet him. They will then know, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is real, that everything they heard about forgiveness, and the Gospel, was true and that it is too late for them to do anything about it. They will have to live for eternity with all the knowledge and shame of their unforgiven sin. God is everywhere, so it may be that they don't go to a separate place to live in their sin - their "hell" will be living with, or near, the One whom they rejected. Like "cringing in shame" or "going hot with embarrassment", but a million times worse, and for eternity.
How would someone who has rejected God and love and kindness towards others suddenly be able to recognise Him in the next life? He have to learn what love is from oue personal experience and we also need to learn the possibly hard lesson that our true happiness lies with being united with God. Universalism says that God will ultimately succeed in ensuring that we all learn these lessons and believes that when we do we will all freely come to him so that He will be "all in all" and "as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ" (1 Corinthians 15:22)

Like "cringing in shame" or "going hot with embarrassment", but a million times worse, and for eternity.

Does that seem a proportionate punishment? Is our legal system fairer than God's justice?
Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. Would He have done that if He wasn't prepared to do the same? God's justice cannot be separated from His love and where's the love in an punitive punishment that just goes on and on?

I'm not too sure what you mean by the "Harrowing of hell".
This is the belief One of the early church that Jesus descended into Sheol/Hades to preach to the dead and rescue those "who in former times did not obey." (I Peter 3:20). It's also in the Apostle’s Creed which says that Jesus descended to Hell after his death, before his resurrection.
So the Harrowing of Hell is the early belief that judgment at the end of life is not final and that everyone can be saved after death. Interestingly, in the early church there were not only prayers for the dead, but there were also baptisms for the dead:
"Otherwise, what will those people do who receive baptism on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?" I Corinthians 15:29
 
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Andrewn

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Immediately after the event of the Resurrection--Rapture---Second Coming--Final Judgment at the Last Day, the end of time
This is possible. Actually, there are 2 definitions of eternity / the age to come:

1) in common parlance, means infinite time that never ends (or the quality, condition or fact of being eternal).

2) Classical philosophy, however, defines eternity as what exists outside time - as in describing supernatural beings and forces,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

You believe in meaning #1 and I believe in meaning #2 and this affects the meaning of the adjective "eternal." I'm not aware of biblical references that will help us conclusively decide one way of the other. The closest I can come to prove my view is the following definition of "eternal life":

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Not sure why you included Php 2:26. The other verses support the conclusion that the Day Christ's return and the Resurrection is called "the Last Day, the Day of the Lord, and the Day of Christ. But none of them really answers the question regarding the beginning of eternity.

The following definition of "eternal" is from Oxford Dictionary:

ADJECTIVE
  • 1Lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

    ‘the secret of eternal youth’
    1. 1.1(of truths, values, or questions) valid for all time; essentially unchanging.

      ‘eternal truths of art and life’
    2. 1.2 informal Seeming to last or persist forever, especially on account of being tedious or annoying.

    3. 1.3Used to emphasize expressions of admiration, gratitude, or other feelings.

      ‘to his eternal credit, he maintained his dignity throughout’
    4. 1.4the EternalUsed to refer to an everlasting or universal spirit, as represented by God.

      ‘According to Irenaeus he claimed to have appeared in Samaria as the Father, in Judea as the Son, and among the heathen as the Holy Ghost, a manifestation of the Eternal.’
Conclusion: You believe that eternity begins at the Day of the Lord. I believe that eternity has no beginning. I guess one day we'll know :).
 
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Clare73

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I don't think that they will suddenly believe any more than you do. It may take an age - the Greek word "aionios" in "aionios kolasis" that Jesus said which is usually translated as "eternal punishment" but which actually means something like "age related remedial punishment".
Actually aoinois is "age lasting," not age related.

1) From post #432, this thread, on punishment (kolasis):

"Punishment" (kolasis) is used in only one other place in the NT, and it means to curtail, prune, dock.
So how is it used in the only other verse where it appears?

In 1 John 4:18, "Fear has punishment (torment--kolasis) [or: "Fear is punishing--kolasis]
and he who fears is not perfect in love."

The punishment there is that sense of sin which induces a slavish fear, which
is a docking, curtailing, pruning of perfect love.
Fear docks, curtails, restrains (kolasis--punishes) the enjoyment of love.

So in Matthew 25:46, "eternal punishment" would be an unending (eternal) restraining or curtailing; i.e., an unending imprisonment (as in 1 Peter 3:19; 2 Peter 2:4, 2 Peter 2:9; Jude 6),
and we see the nature of that imprisonment in the multitude of Scriptures where Jesus presents unending punishment in Gehenna (Mark 9:43, 45, 47-48; Matthew 5:22, 12:31, 13:30, 18:8-9, 25:41, 46; Luke 16:24).

2) Full demonstration of the Biblical meaning of "aionios" (eternal) is presented in post #497, this thread.

There is no mistranslation of Matthew 25:46.
 
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Clare73

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This is possible. Actually, there are 2 definitions of eternity / the age to come:
1) in common parlance, means infinite time that never ends (or the quality, condition or fact of being eternal).
2) Classical philosophy, however, defines eternity as what exists outside time - as in describing supernatural beings and forces,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity
You believe in meaning #1 and I believe in meaning #2
I do not see eternity as infinite "time," I see eternity as unending, where we will be at the end of time, which fits well with definition #2.
and this affects the meaning of the adjective "eternal." I'm not aware of biblical references that will help us conclusively decide one way of the other. The closest I can come to prove my view is the following definition of "eternal life":
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
Not sure why you included Php 2:26
Typo. . .should be 2:16.
The other verses support the conclusion that the Day Christ's return and the Resurrection is called "the Last Day, the Day of the Lord, and the Day of Christ. But none of them really answers the question regarding the beginning of eternity.
Eternity doesn't "begin," eternity always was.
We will enter the always-existing eternity at the end of time.
The following definition of "eternal" is from Oxford Dictionary:
We believe the same thing regarding eternity. . .you assumed I believe the "common parlance," rather than Biblical parlance.
ADJECTIVE
  • 1Lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

    ‘the secret of eternal youth’
    1. 1.1(of truths, values, or questions) valid for all time; essentially unchanging.

      ‘eternal truths of art and life’
    2. 1.2 informal Seeming to last or persist forever, especially on account of being tedious or annoying.

    3. 1.3Used to emphasize expressions of admiration, gratitude, or other feelings.

      ‘to his eternal credit, he maintained his dignity throughout’
    4. 1.4the EternalUsed to refer to an everlasting or universal spirit, as represented by God.

      ‘According to Irenaeus he claimed to have appeared in Samaria as the Father, in Judea as the Son, and among the heathen as the Holy Ghost, a manifestation of the Eternal.’
Conclusion: You believe that eternity begins at the Day of the Lord. I believe that eternity has no beginning. I guess one day we'll know :).
 
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Der Alte

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I don't think that they will suddenly believe any more than you do. It may take an age - the Greek word "aionios" in "aionios kolasis" that Jesus said which is usually translated as "eternal punishment" but which actually means something like "age related remedial punishment". Aionios is where our word eon comes from.
You say these people didn't care about God when they were alive but is that true? Perhaps they just didn't care much for the God who was presented to them at church, who told them that they weren't supposed to have fun, dance, sing and go to the pub etc
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As long as you continue to post this false information, about "aionios," I will continue to refute it for those who may be tempted to believe.
“aionios” occurs 69x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 2 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated “eternal” 42 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated “everlasting” 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. Jesus never uses “aionios” to refer to something ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
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In twenty four [24] of the following verses aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
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…..Some people argue that “aion/aionios” never means eternity/eternal because they sometimes refer to things which are not eternal.
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything ordinary or mundane that was not/could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.”
[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei, Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias, Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]​
In this verse the reign/basileusei, the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.”
“Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.


[Character Limit. Continued next post]
 
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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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[Previous post continued]


Paul used the word “aionios” eleven [11] times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.
[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Since God’s power and Godhead is aidios/eternal vs. 1:20 then God, Himself is eternal/aionios. Paul has used “aionios” synonymous with “aidios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]​
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]​
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.​
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” A “finite period life” is not opposite “death.” “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means for ever and ever.
The doubling of words for emphasis is a Hebraism see e.g. “king of kings,””Lord of Lord,””Hebrew of Hebrews,””Amen, Amen.”
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.​
In this verse “aion” is paralleled with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age,” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.​
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, verse 25, writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto the eternity. ” The word of God does not endure only a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.​
In this verse Peter juxtaposed “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
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Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
 
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